I die far too easy sometimes and i feel combat always goes one way?

[Adam Chattaway]

I jsut got killed by a guy in the same ship as me a viper mk3, He wrecked me... I shot him back and did the typical boring i shoot him he passe sme shooting me we both turn and go again etc whioch seems to be the only way combat plays out in this game with no real maneuvers but he destroyed me in seconds before i could get his shields down... i was using 4 burst lasers small.

The one thing that is annoying is how the hell do i die soo fast? and why is there nothing i can do? i could not even jump out of there like on eve onlien your ship lasts quite a while even when outgunned and numbered but here its just fine one moment then BOOM ON FIRE BANG the next before you can even react, this games combat is really starting to irk me, from the instant deaths to the no way to respond, escape or choice of combat other than circling each other...

 

[Reaper99]

I jsut got killed by a guy in the same ship as me a viper mk3, He wrecked me... I shot him back and did the typical boring i shoot him he passe sme shooting me we both turn and go again etc whioch seems to be the only way combat plays out in this game with no real maneuvers but he destroyed me in seconds before i could get his shields down... i was using 4 burst lasers small.

The one thing that is annoying is how the hell do i die soo fast? and why is there nothing i can do? i could not even jump out of there like on eve onlien your ship lasts quite a while even when outgunned and numbered but here its just fine one moment then BOOM ON FIRE BANG the next before you can even react, this games combat is really starting to irk me, from the instant deaths to the no way to respond, escape or choice of combat other than circling each other...

A few things here to help...first...EVE is not nor ever has been a sim...not in the sense of simmers anyhow...which is by the way...in the cockpit...with the HUD and panels and stuff like what you have here or in an air sim...that's where this lies...next the fight you are describing shouldn't be a boom and zoom...but a knife fight...you should be in turning fights

now on to a bit of ship critique...only critique not a flame...
1. 4 small burst lasers...not good
2. 2 small multi cannons 2 medium burst lasers...I prefer the penetration of pulse but to each their own...the small multi's are for direct hull damage...some actually swap the medium and small..
3. gimble the cannons...use fixed on the thermals.
4. power management, basically how upgraded is your ship...if it is upgraded with A rated thrusters, power plant and shields you should be doing well...its fairly nimble with those thrusters at that point and your fights will be different.

if your ship was close to stock...that viper will wreck you in no time...some of em carry the medium rails and if they hit they do significant damage and can strip a shield pretty fast.

there are a lot of videos on fights...you see a lot of turning...FA off flips(flight assist)...roling side, up down thrust in combination with your regular flight controls...and there is also the reverse thrusting...not the best at it myself as I under utilize that option to keep em in my sights....practice and perseverance will help...just don't get discouraged...all the ships handle different even with A rated stuff to help their mobility its like learning a new one everytime.

npc ships aren't exactly stock.

 

[Zazzilas Arden]

Use weapons of the appropriate size, keep your throttle in blue while turning, use FA off...what rating are your shields? Your thrusters?

This all sounds like typical new-player results to me.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

If you think that's the only way combat plays out I'd recommend practicing some different maneuvers. A player can always out-maneuver an NPC in the same ship if they know what they're doing. You can stay behind them pretty much indefinitely. As long as you're in a maneuverable ship and not a whale like the Python or Gunship you can make sure that while you're not behind them, you're at least to their side or well below or above their arc of fire when fighting a mismatched ship.

I can't remember the last time I fought an NPC in the jousting match style you think comprises the whole of ED's gameplay. Specific steps were taken during the game's design to prevent all combat devolving into a jousting match, and it worked. We don't have that.

Check some YT videos, there seems to be a lot you could learn.

 

[Adam Chattaway]

A few things here to help...first...EVE is not nor ever has been a sim...not in the sense of simmers anyhow...which is by the way...in the cockpit...with the HUD and panels and stuff like what you have here or in an air sim...that's where this lies...next the fight you are describing shouldn't be a boom and zoom...but a knife fight...you should be in turning fights

now on to a bit of ship critique...only critique not a flame...
1. 4 small burst lasers...not good
2. 2 small multi cannons 2 medium burst lasers...I prefer the penetration of pulse but to each their own...the small multi's are for direct hull damage...some actually swap the medium and small..
3. gimble the cannons...use fixed on the thermals.
4. power management, basically how upgraded is your ship...if it is upgraded with A rated thrusters, power plant and shields you should be doing well...its fairly nimble with those thrusters at that point and your fights will be different.

if your ship was close to stock...that viper will wreck you in no time...some of em carry the medium rails and if they hit they do significant damage and can strip a shield pretty fast.

there are a lot of videos on fights...you see a lot of turning...FA off flips(flight assist)...roling side, up down thrust in combination with your regular flight controls...and there is also the reverse thrusting...not the best at it myself as I under utilize that option to keep em in my sights....practice and perseverance will help...just don't get discouraged...all the ships handle different even with A rated stuff to help their mobility its like learning a new one everytime.

npc ships aren't exactly stock.

I'm finding is very hard to make money, missions either give me 6k a run which is really bad or i get a mission i can't jump to because it's too far away or a 60k+ mission where i get killed, upgrades for a class are like 500k +. I tried searching in systems for ships to kill but its either dead or a bounty of 200 for killing a wanted viper -_- and chasing them in super c is a pain int he ass, they run and hwen i get close they slam break on and i cant slow in time then they fly away again making tryign to get behind them very hard because then stop and turn after i try catching them up.

 

[QziQza]

it can be a pretty steep learning curve for the uninitiated Adam, took me a while to find my fingers from my thumbs, but the skills do come with some perseverance (+youtube +community created tutorials +twitch feeds) i think most players start with an arcade philosophy, so you aren't the 1st to question the model, mechanics and frustration. in this game having better guns makes no difference if you cant survive long enough to use them.. that rule applies equally to both parties in a fight.. some guides to help get you started, or at the least put you in the right location to find some that fit exactly what you are looking for....

Spoiler

[video=youtube;CR0r3ljnU1U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR0r3ljnU1U[/video]

[video=youtube;XjYeCs5MA18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjYeCs5MA18[/video]

[video=youtube;IY8AswKqYDM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY8AswKqYDM[/video]

also some twitch streamer that partake in frequent combat twitch.tv/rheaayase Rhea loves the pvp and res farming, and will happily talk though everything being done during combat, and twitch.tv/neon_raven neon is v cool, always happy to offer advise, show combat builds and talk through the finer details.. he is proper nice lad, and always has great some tunes playing in the background. we have a great community, with commanders always willing to help, we get the odd bullsmiley and smileyhat, but they are easy to tune out lol.

hope thats of some use to you Adam.. fly safe commander o7

 

[Ian Skippy]

I jsut got killed by a guy in the same ship as me a viper mk3, He wrecked me... I shot him back and did the typical boring i shoot him he passe sme shooting me we both turn and go again etc whioch seems to be the only way combat plays out in this game with no real maneuvers but he destroyed me in seconds before i could get his shields down... i was using 4 burst lasers small.

The one thing that is annoying is how the hell do i die soo fast? and why is there nothing i can do? i could not even jump out of there like on eve onlien your ship lasts quite a while even when outgunned and numbered but here its just fine one moment then BOOM ON FIRE BANG the next before you can even react, this games combat is really starting to irk me, from the instant deaths to the no way to respond, escape or choice of combat other than circling each other...

This sounds rough but its important, I hope you read the entire post. He does the typical boring thing because it works against you. If you chose to play his game and you lose, he's just better at his game. So if you want to fight zoom&boomers, try the following:

1) Put throttle at 50% while you're both turning
2) As he is approaching you head on, apply chaff and use vertical/lateral thrusters to make yourself a PITA to hit with fixed/deselected weapons. Keep facing him, a Viper is a very small target head-on, but impossible to msis from an angle!
3) When he gets closer, thrust downwards fully while pitching up to keep him in sight.
4) When he's in medium-close range, drop flight assist and keep pitching.
5) When you're at more or less 90 degrees of him hit boost, keep FA off and keep pitching up.
6) Thrust downwards to get him in sight faster if he is close, thrust upwards to keep him closer.
7) You're now too close to him to turn for a new strafe run. He either has to create distance, which allows you to get behind him and unload, or he has to play a wrestler-style game.
8) If he beats you at this, too, he's just the better pilot and you need to practice more. No shame in that, we all face a better pilot once in a while.

Finally, outfitting matters a lot. Try this: http://coriolis.io/outfit/viper/03A...+kA==.CwBj48CYGYyA?bn=Viper endurance fighter

1) Double chaff basically allows you about two minutes of continuous defence against gimballed weapons. A Viper Mk3 is a small target, and at speed quite difficult to accurately hit with de-selected/fixed weapons. If he chaffs against you, just use your fixed beams. Otherwise use both beams and gimballed MC regardless of whether he has shields or not.
2) Stock up on hull. Just putting them in your c1 and c2 slots gives you FOUR times as much armor as a stock Viper for a paltry 6 ton. Thats more armor than a stock FDL. Good luck killing that in seconds!
3) Use a c3 bi-weave shield. These restore much faster than regular c3 shields, and it works wonders versus zoom&boom opponents as they provide ample time for shield-regen. You'll still have more shields than 15 stock ships, including the Asp Explorer.
4) Either use a SCB in the spare C3 slot or add even more hull. With the SCB you've got four complete recharges(!) of your shield. If you use SCB, apply them when you start taking serious damage. Do not wait for your shield to get low. If you use another hull module you'll have more hull than a stock Corvette, a warship over 1000x as expensive as a stock Viper. No joke.

With a build like this and reasonable skills, you can keep going for some minutes versus another Mk3 and casually stroll away when hull <50. Remember he now has to plow through loads of armor on a ship with a rapidly recharging shield; a ship that is both fast, small and can double-chaff. When running away, do not just boost away from wherever your opponent is, only start running away during a (mockery) strafing run. You need to focus more on the speed differential between both ships than your own speed. If you pass each other at full speed (without boost) you'll be escaping at >600m/s, or over 2000 km/hr. That means you're out of range in five seconds. If you're just boosting away from a similar ship, at best you'll be moving away at 50m/s, which means you'll need a whole minute to get out of range all the time with him shooting at you from a perfect angle. Lots of traders dont get this and die as a result: it might work against NPCs, but verus a decent human cmdr the following applies: unless you have a serious core speed advantage over your opponent just boosting away in a straight line is a death sentence.

Finally, dont despair. There are some guys with literally thousands of hours of experience who fly a Viper just because its funny to them. When you meet them, have the right loadout and keep a cool head, you can escape. Its the best you can hope for againts an ace pilot. You're probably not one of them, I am certainly not one them, and most of us (particularly in the beginning!) tend to lose out head at times. Its all part of the game: keep a close eye on your insurance, make a note of the cmdr's name and carry on. Believe it or not, if you keep at it chances are that before too long someone starts a topic here claiming its unfair that you killed them in no-time without them having a chance.

Fly smart, fly safe cmdr!

 

[Adam Chattaway]

So i watched a bit of the guide, i found (after a long time) 1 un sig source and went to it... two fed navy ships in there and none had bountrys or were hostile, then suddenly for no reason they attack me and i managed to escape before getting killed was that about? taking on 1 ship is enough but two or even three at one?

 

[Bakerloo]

I'm finding is very hard to make money, missions either give me 6k a run which is really bad or i get a mission i can't jump to because it's too far away or a 60k+ mission where i get killed, upgrades for a class are like 500k +. I tried searching in systems for ships to kill but its either dead or a bounty of 200 for killing a wanted viper -_- and chasing them in super c is a pain int he ass, they run and hwen i get close they slam break on and i cant slow in time then they fly away again making tryign to get behind them very hard because then stop and turn after i try catching them up.

OK, it can be tough and confusing at first, and those upgraded modules do make a huge difference to your survivability. I think the easiest way to make money if you're struggling is in a low or regular RES (Resource Extraction Site). You'll find these in metallic rings around gas giants. Basically go there, find the cops if you're still uncertain with combat techniques, and tag along with them killing their targets. Make sure you scan before firing (point your nose at the target and wait a few seconds), and make sure your target is wanted. Also beware of blue on blue fire and go easy on the pray and spray! In a viper you should be able to rack up a good number of kills. If there is something like an Anaconda in there, wait for the cops to mostly kill it (say 20%ish hull left), then open up and claim a fat bounty (200,000cr plus sometimes). When you get better at it you can start picking on targets yourself, but be carful of winged up NPCs. Leave missions for now until you're more confident with the game. Failing them is frustrating.

Re: combat. I'm far from being a good stick but as the others have mentioned keep your throttle in the blue and use your vertical thrusters to tighten your turn. Don't boom and zoom. FA off is pretty advanced (for me) but it's kinda fun to use as a toggle when needed. Make sure your weapons are grouped - thermals for one trigger, kinetics for the other, and placed in logical hardpoints. Don't fire them all at once or you'll run out of power. I'd gimbal them all if you're struggling to hit stuff. Strip the shields with lasers, then use the guns on the hull. Manage your pips, this is just so important to do and vital to learn. My results increased dramatically after reading a bit and watching a few vids. Pips to Wep when you're on target; pips to Sys if you're taking fire (much more to it then that, but that's a start). Never fly straight and level in combat. Use chaff liberally it is cheap.

Good luck and I hope this is useful for you.


EDIT: If you don't use something like Track IR or Oculus then learning how to read the 1980's radar in the center of your HUD is a great way to help develop your situational awareness in a fight.

 

[Adam Chattaway]

And why cant i plot a course to any system i need to go to? says unavailable and reading the map is very hard no lines connect and everything seems to be disconnected until you zoom in very close.

And what does the blue arrow on a place mean? my locked target is a yellow arrow but i see places with blue arrows on them?

And i used to see how much a bounty was worth it would say bounty 58,000 etc i never see that anymore, how come?

 

[Lightspeed]

It might be better for you to "downgrade" to a cheaper ship if you want to fight. It seems as if you've got into a Viper too early and, as a result are struggling with everything.

Pick a small, nippy ship like an Eagle and get used to targeting ships and bringing down their shields, but do it in a RES site where the local enforcement will be there to assist. You will gain a lot of experience and, if you get blown up, your replacement costs are small.

Then, after a bit of this kind of experience, go back to your Viper and outfit it with class A protection and better weapons You will be ready for anything then

 

[Ian Skippy]

And what does the blue arrow on a place mean? my locked target is a yellow arrow but i see places with blue arrows on them?

And i used to see how much a bounty was worth it would say bounty 58,000 etc i never see that anymore, how come?

1) The blue arrows is where you are.
2) Nothing changed.

Seriously dude, chill.

 

[Surly_Badger]

seems to be the only way combat plays out in this game with no real maneuvers but he destroyed me in seconds before i could get his shields down...

Those maneuvers. They help.

 

[Adam Chattaway]

When looking at bulkhead upgrades there is no rating A only rating I ? these cost up to 300k so shouldn't they be higher rating?

 

[Gully Foyle]

So i watched a bit of the guide, i found (after a long time) 1 un sig source and went to it... two fed navy ships in there and none had bountrys or were hostile, then suddenly for no reason they attack me and i managed to escape before getting killed was that about? taking on 1 ship is enough but two or even three at one?

When I first started I found hunting Wanteds at a star's Nav point to be very profitable, and still do.
You can pick your targets, the cops are around to help and you can always run to the nearest station if you get into trouble.

If you aren't seeing plot lines for your ship to travel in the Galaxy map, that means your ship does not have the range to get to further stars.
Get a larger FSD and maybe an extra fuel tank as well. Try to make your ship as light as possible with D mods to take full advantage of the bigger FSD.

Have a look in the Newcomers forum, there is a ton of info there that would help you.

 

[Zeta Legion]

When looking at bulkhead upgrades there is no rating A only rating I ? these cost up to 300k so shouldn't they be higher rating?

There is only one rank available for armor, cargo bays, guns, heat sinks, etc.

Most expensive armor types are reactive and mirrored, which give enhanced protection against kinetic and thermic specifically.

 

[Adam Chattaway]

Someone said the blue arrow is where i am, well i got a blue arrow on a distress sig that was miles away from me, so how was i there?

 

[Reaper99]

I'm finding is very hard to make money, missions either give me 6k a run which is really bad or i get a mission i can't jump to because it's too far away or a 60k+ mission where i get killed, upgrades for a class are like 500k +. I tried searching in systems for ships to kill but its either dead or a bounty of 200 for killing a wanted viper -_- and chasing them in super c is a pain int he ass, they run and hwen i get close they slam break on and i cant slow in time then they fly away again making tryign to get behind them very hard because then stop and turn after i try catching them up.

Ok, we have a starting point...sounds like you are fairly new...not a bad thing....but helps with the community for giving advice. So on to advice.

You have alot of ways of getting credits...but one of the biggest pieces of advice I or any other commander can give that will be worth its weight in palladium...slow down...relax a bit...ok now lets get you into some forward motion.

under general advice...I rather not get to specific...
1. depending on your likes and or dislikes...when starting off...the missions you qualify for will be low end missions...this has to do with your elite rating on three different catagories...Combat, Trade, Exploration...there is a forth for cqc...I haven't fooled with that yet as its not of high interest.

2. Those statuses for elite...well you may rank up fairly fast for the first few...but it progressively gets slower the higher the rank..so again...dont try and rush this.

3. trade will net you the fastest money...not trade missions...but you are in a ship that is combat oriented...I know it looks cooler than the hauler and the asp but for beginning...its a limited ship...to even trade what little you can in it...you will need a fuel scoop and a better jump drive....to fully kit out a viper cost about 2 mil up to 3....there are places that sell equip at a discount.

4. the viper is a good little fighter...but its a fighter...local bounties wont get you much at the moment because it scaled to your level basically...6k runs add up tend to be safe...the higher the money...higher the risk
5. dont be afraid to run the tutorial stuff ...there is some good basics and learning in those...get good at them...you will feel more able when you switch to your commander.
6. Don't get discouraged...you have probably read alot of our post ...alot of us are in different ships now...we have been playing for a while...but we all started like you...in essence a starter ship...either sidewinder, cobra or freegle...hmmm dont ask about cobra and freegle...those were some starting points during the kickstart campaign..anyhow...all the sub million dollar ships are fast to get to compared to the others...the only true starter ship is really the sidewinder...there are alot of CMDR's that use vipers, cobra's, asp still for one thing or another...cobra is an excellent little smuggler..that got a bite...its midsize...and hold its own in most fights...bringing me to next bit of advise.
7. dont be afraid to run...some fights you are not going to win...smart piloting is knowing when to run before the fight starts not in the middle of it...there are tricks to that to...your ship is one of the faster ones...use that to advatage.
8. your ship is a nimble fighter...not a boom and zoom job...gotta get used to using your agility...there was a poster that said it bluntly...learn the ship...
9. even 200 creds add up and those kills apply to your status which you will be building...when you are in a system...make sure there isnt unexplored planets and heavenly bodies...those will add to your balance to as long as you are 20 plus ly away from said system.
10. in super cruise you have 2 options if you are chasing a want...watchem to see if the low wake...or drop to regular space....highlight that wake...and when you get under 1mm you can safely drop to where they are if they havent went to super cruise again...or have an FSD interdictor...you dont have to be right up on em...just behind and in range when you pull the trigger on the fsd...then try keeping them in the center of your interdiction ring. till you win the tug of war...be warned...when you track em like this and force them into regular space...you will incur damage to your ship as it stresses the systems and structure...check signal sourses...unidentified, weak, and stay away from strong at this time probably..and distress calls...
11. definately change your guns...four small guns are not doing you justice...and its best to learn enrgy management early rather than later with more expensive ships. that is also a lesson that is a topic all its own...hopefully I've given some starting insight.

oh...make some friends...this is important...no matter how you play, open, group, or solo...eventually you will drop to open just out of social curiosity...friends are as valuble as the rarest of trade items...and as dangerous as any weapon or ship...they can help you grow...help you learn, fly your wing and help build your skill and confidence...and always pass on the favor when you can help...be patient...dont get discouraged...and no matter what...ask questions...there will be someone on these forums that can answer...even if some may be a bit gruff...sometimes its hard for us to remember being new and learning ourselves.

Good luck commander and see ya in the black!!

 

[Soliluna]

A few things here to help...first...EVE is not nor ever has been a sim...not in the sense of simmers anyhow...which is by the way...in the cockpit...with the HUD and panels and stuff like what you have here or in an air sim...that's where this lies...next the fight you are describing shouldn't be a boom and zoom...but a knife fight...you should be in turning fights

now on to a bit of ship critique...only critique not a flame...
1. 4 small burst lasers...not good
2. 2 small multi cannons 2 medium burst lasers...I prefer the penetration of pulse but to each their own...the small multi's are for direct hull damage...some actually swap the medium and small..
3. gimble the cannons...use fixed on the thermals.
4. power management, basically how upgraded is your ship...if it is upgraded with A rated thrusters, power plant and shields you should be doing well...its fairly nimble with those thrusters at that point and your fights will be different.

if your ship was close to stock...that viper will wreck you in no time...some of em carry the medium rails and if they hit they do significant damage and can strip a shield pretty fast.

there are a lot of videos on fights...you see a lot of turning...FA off flips(flight assist)...roling side, up down thrust in combination with your regular flight controls...and there is also the reverse thrusting...not the best at it myself as I under utilize that option to keep em in my sights....practice and perseverance will help...just don't get discouraged...all the ships handle different even with A rated stuff to help their mobility its like learning a new one everytime.

npc ships aren't exactly stock.

The comment about Eve just sounds like a jibe, their's nothing sim like about how long ships last in this game either. If they are equipped properly the shield will hold, much the same as it does in Eve. Also, coming to a stop and firing like a turret is a valid tactic for any ship that has decent agility so that flies out the window too.

 

[Reaper99]

So i watched a bit of the guide, i found (after a long time) 1 un sig source and went to it... two fed navy ships in there and none had bountrys or were hostile, then suddenly for no reason they attack me and i managed to escape before getting killed was that about? taking on 1 ship is enough but two or even three at one?

in time you will be able to do 3 on one...its never easy but it is exciting...well there are variance in how hard...just remember dont get cocky keep a cool head...and if system security is shooting at you...check your wanted status...that will be on your right side...if your wanted it will let you know...or check on you panel with your accepted contracs to see if you have unpaid tickets as we know your not a pirate right ...