I don't understand the concept of "grind" in gaming

antonygoldrick

antonygoldrick
Next you lot will be saying Jet Set Willy, Monty Mole or Starquake are a grind.

Phaa I laugh at your repetitive tasks.

You don't know what a grind is until you got to level 50 at Chucky Egg . . . :)
 

Derath

D
Katkon said:
The trouble that I have with this line of thinking is that the same can really be said for ANY game, once you drill down into the base mechanics:

* Call of Duty - run around and shoot a gun. It's a grindy mechanic. Dull. (good AI in FPS's make every match play differently, different = dynamic, dynamic = not grinding)
* Far Cry - run around shoot a gun, drive a handful of vehicles. The map's pretty, but the basic actions are the same. Yawn. (See above)
* Grand Theft Auto - beautiful, but the map's small and all you do is run around and steal vehicles, rob people and shoot stuff. Very repetitive. (The darts game in 4 required more input than trading does in ED)
* Forza - drive a car in circles. Boring! - (This requires constant attention and skill, especially versus players or higher end AI, ED could have this too if they ever added racing in confined space)
* Any MMO (WoW, GW2, ESO, SWTOR) - level up a character by completing repetitive quests and kill monsters. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. (best comparison to ED)
* Chess - move pieces on chess board. The board doesn't even change, and I can't customize my pieces. Grindy! (Every match is different)
* Poker - sit around a table, deal some cards and place some bets. Over and over again! Talk about monotonous! (Every match is different)
Click to expand...

At their base level ED tasks are monotonously simple, Just look at the trading, you click buy, fly, click sell, If you warped in at a fixed position at a station you could script that with a keyboard macro :/ It wouldn't even be a complicated keyboard macro! Thats why people say its grinding, tasks have to feel different in ED they don't - the closest thing we've got is Bounty Hunting at RES, which has exactly the same appeal as bot matches in the FPS's you mentioned and probably explains why so many people enjoy doing it.

Not all elements are grindy, but some of them are extremely grindy. It needs to be talked about because it matters to many people, they want a game with richer missions not yet more get 3 coffee missions.

For example there are what, 6 or 7 classes of marbles, and the same # of classes of star, if you were lucky you'd see them in <30 minutes, and you would then from that point on be repeating without anything new whatsoever for months, jump... point.. point.... jump... point.. point... Its bringing back my respect for explorers all over again.
 
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Captain N

C
Oh and when people refer to grind they talk about built-in repetition that was intentionally put in by the game's designers just for the sake of prolonging the game.

i.e. repeat this task X many times in order to get a reward.

Chess hardly has any mechanics like that. The game is a branching tree of decisions that only need to be made once, every decision being meaningful. There are even rules to prevent a board position repeating itself.

If you had to stand up and sit down on your chair a hundred times before you were allowed to move a pawn, that would be grind.

That kind of chess might be good for your health, perhaps. See, grind isn't always a negative thing. Though it can be too much if poorly used.
 

Jaeger

Jaeger
OP does not know what a grind is ... or he does but wants players to not use such a pejorative term ?

Confused much?

Dorohedoro said:
Chess a grind...

OMG
Click to expand...

At this point, OP proves that while he has a point to make (don't complain until you have tried all options in a game) but shows he has no clue what he is talking about.

ED is obviously a grind, there is a very limited scope in available game scenarios. Trading Grind, RES Grind, Combat Zone Grind, [4, 3, 2, 1 Engage] x 400 billion exploration grind. Apparantly PowerPlay is a new way to grind .. every week .. grind to stay in good standing.. Next step freemium micro-transactions to not have to grind.

It's Elite: Grindathon.

It's the game developers job to bring variety, and hopefully with the new mission system overhaul it will be possible for FD to inject content from now on. Until that happens complaints about lack of variety... nay demands for engaging game content are warranted.
 
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Martlet

M
trollson said:
Grind:
(a) Doing something you don't like, repetatively, before you can do something you do like.
(b) Doing something repetatively to let you do something with different names, bigger numbers, but otherwise the same.
(c) Something to keep players busy until developers can think of something interesting for them to do.
(d) Something to keep players busy so the developers only have to do the minimum.
Click to expand...

Think this really captures it well, in particular a and c. Games are inherently repetitive, yet we enjoy them. We get narky when we feel we are forced to wait get to one part of the game, having to wade through hours/days/weeks of activity to get to the good stuff. When the good stuff is available instantly, but its all there is, we dont call it a grind, even if its repetitive. Also, developers can only create so much content, at some point a player exhuasts that.

In the days of single player that was accepted as the end of the game, or they started adding side missions, collect 100 coin whatever tasks so that a 40hr game could stretch to 60hrs for little extra dev cost. In online, persistant gaming thats not good enough so they need to keep you "busy" with something to pad out the game between events, or to manage the game so that the "good" stuff is kept aspirational. Not to mention creating game resource sinks to make internal economies work in some way.

Elite doesnt really have proper grind as there's no "end game", unless one set ones own target. For some its having the biggest most well armed ship, others want to explore or trade their way to a fortune for no other reason than the sake of it. The journey is greater than the destination as they say.
 
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who?

who?
In the beginning, there was hand-crafted content. And gamers saw that it was good. But, then gamers complained that there wasn't enough, that games were too short.
So developers created procedural content. And gamers saw that it was good. But, then gamers complained that after a while it seems samey, pointless, aimless.
So developers created ranks and levels and currencies, and equipment and locations locked based on those ranks/levels/riches. And gamers saw that they were good. But, then gamers complained that they reached these goals too quickly, and then there was nothing else to do.
So developers added newer, higher ranks, so the highest ones are challenging to reach. And gamers saw that these were good. But, then players complained about it taking too long to reach these goals, than there is too much "grind", and repetition.

And so the developer declared "sod this!" Quit his/her job. Sold their belongings. And is now very happily selling pickled mackerel from a wooden hut on a beach somewhere in Guyana.
 

trollson

trollson
I couldn't find this when I made my post a page or so back...

cad-20060218-52099.jpg

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060218
 
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