Ships I LOVE the Alliance Crusader

[Darksnow47]

Hi all,

After reading all the hate posts about the Crusader I thought I give it a try. I kind of have a special love for the ugly ducks. I also liked the Type9 before the big buff and I still enjoy the Type10 as well.

So long story short I fully engineered the Crusader and outfitted it for anti Thargoid combat. I am kind of a noob with the Cyclops and only managed to kill it solo once with a heavy engineered Anaconda. Yesterday I killed 2 Cyclops without much effort with the Crusader and the second time (my 3 kill ever) I still had 100% hull left without use of limpets. Because I am not a pro player this means this ship cannot be as bad as everyone on the forum says. This thing is a Killer Machine.

Here´s why I love it:
- It´s costs half of the Krait and is still much cheaper as the Gunship which is a little too slow for the Cyclops. Crusader=4m rebuy. Gunship= 5m. Krait I guess around 8.5m
- This saves you tons of money when hunting scouts and anytime you repair. It´s like having a 100% discount on repairs compared to the Krait everytime
- The 3 small are perfect for the small Gauss. Perfect convergence and the heat of the small version seems to be much lower. I can fire it like 3 times without any use of heatsinks. And still deals great damage
- This ship is a lot faster than the Gunship (one of my all the time favorites). I get around 470 boost compared to around 400 with the Gunship
- With DD5 it´s very agile. When boosting it has crazy vertical thrusters. It feels like dancing around the cyclops (like Rocky around a fat boxer)
- It´s the cheapest good ship with fighter bay. Also great for Scout hunting and PVE in General
- It has still more slots then the Gunship which allows to equip decom limpets and cargo etc.
- The jump range is still a lot better then the gunship (around 18 vs. 23ly in my combat build)
- Disclaimer: The Gunship is still better for general combat (just a little too slow for Cyclops. Better to have over 450m/s)


Here´s the build I currently use (the rails are small gauss cannons):
https://coriolis.io/outfit/alliance_crusader?code=A2pktkFflndpsff4x3xyx829292904040404fmB202y22G0d2b2b2b.Iw18RQ%3D%3D.Aw18RQ%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA2P4x8bAwPCXFUj8mQQkuE04GBh4ef79%2Fy%2FIwc7AINTy6v9%2FlTtA6f%2BM%2F%2BxBKplBKmuBBAdIlF%2Fl1%2F%2F%2FYhpcQHmmf2Jwk0oYoFIib4CE6AJ%2BBgaJDSwMDMoF4kCVzP%2Bk4CorYCqFdnAzMIjUiAJVgq1j%2FWcJV9QAJDhBbuKaIsjAoAhiKYFYqiCWGoj1n%2B1fAkw5f8UboHEHHvz%2Fr2fz7f%2F%2F%2F3z%2FXOEmzQHJg8wXMigF2nSEk4FB%2FgYfUD8%2FMYoEiFEkSIwi4X%2B%2BcEVZQIJJ4s%2F%2F%2F2ygIOK2BIaw4D0gIQpSqbIHGAv%2FJf5pwZVPA8XSFiCTT0EGqBLEEgIFsAqI9V%2BSaJVSRKv8z4ACAL8HrsgzAgAA.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A%3D&bn=Ax%20Crusader%20Boss

If you want to ignore the swarm just replace the Flak cannons with 2 overcharged gimballed multi cannons for faster scout killing or better PVE. This gives you a layout which is very flexible. Kill some scouts. Kill the cyclops. You could even do some normal PVE (still good enough with the fighter)

Summary (what I want to say): Yes, the Krait is better but for double the price (that´s economy guys). But why can we not just appreciate how good the Crusader is for the low price it has? It allows you to enjoy combat without having to grind money with exploits like a maniac. It´s a great ship and some people like to fly ships that don´t everyone uses. People on the forum should stop to compare every ship to the Krait or the best in class. Just enjoy the variety and appreciate the alternative options.


My Crusader rating: 9 of 10 points. Highly recommended. Nightmare of every scout and cyclops even in medium skill player hands.

 

[satakuua]

I've no access to any of the Guardian tech (have not yet opened that can of worms), but reading your report gives me hope I might be able to solo kill a Far God some day.

<o CMDR

 

[Hacker#451563]

Good post Sir.

Rep'ed for going against the screaming pitchfork meta and also for giving a well written, informative opinion piece with some hard facts thrown in to support you argument.

What a refreshing change.

 

[Ceekay]

Copied your build OP but used a 6A shield and a class 5 fighter bay, I didn't fit the decon limpet or the AFMU as the Gauss cannons can be rapid fired to burn off the caustic sauce (guess how I know! ).

The only issue is power as the weapons and shields soak up a lot of juice but a Guardian PD adds 4% to the fitted power plant so just enough for the build, I tried it out this morning and works fine against scouts and TBH it's a better scout killer than the Chieftain or Challenger (probably down to it's lower speed and agility)

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/all...GA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=&bn=Alliance Crusader AXG

 

[Darksnow47]

Good post Sir.

Rep'ed for going against the screaming pitchfork meta and also for giving a well written, informative opinion piece with some hard facts thrown in to support you argument.

What a refreshing change.

Thank you very much! Great to hear that it helped some people.

 

[Darksnow47]

Some additionsl ideas

After killing tons of scouts and cyclops I can share some additional ideas for the loadout.

1) How much Gauss? Here you can choose different combinations but you cannot use the medium at the bottom of the ship. Also it's kind of a waste to use the large slot. Options (ordered by damage):
- 2medium (using large slot), 2small= 121 dmg, 22 distributor, 80 thermal, 9.04 power
- 1medium, 2small= 82.5 dmg, 14.8 distributor, 55 thermal load, 6.42 power
- 2medium (using large slot)=77dmg, 14.4 distr, 50 thermal, 5.22 power
- 3small= 66dmg, 11.4 distri, 45 thermal, 5.73 power
- 1med, 1small= 60.5dmg, 11 distr, 40 therm, 4.52 power

What do you think is most efficient? I will give 1m/1sm a try today. As long as its enough to destroy the hearth in 2 good hits that would be sufficient for me (even 2 smalls kill the hearth in 2 hits based on exigious sidewinder video). Together with 2 AX multis it should exert pretty fast.

Also I removed the decom limped and replaced it with more armor and better AFM and MRP. 3600 armor and 800 shield is really tanky for the small package.

Current loadout:
https://coriolis.io/outfit/alliance_crusader?code=A2pktkFflndpsff4x30Hx10q290q04040404fmB20i2H27272b2b2b.Iw18RQ%3D%3D.Aw18RQ%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA42RL08DQRTEh5Y7rj16x11716Mh4d9BCIIgME1IUEg8Eo1CQFIBCaKCIAlBIfgICAQCgeBDIAhBk2oEKfuYR%2BgaBLtiMtn55e1kH4wP4MujDC8o4UYANCaNSBJMAGn%2FXaR8YSxjZkvJqpInlEBv4%2FJTJF%2BpM6%2BY3E46xG%2FUGlCymxgobseBxYM2yarpWLI3ItP7EGgdZyR%2FnvNM10KnlJp2ql8mwLy6BXVL6pbViW%2F2RnjcG3Dc45vI2uaHiIRm1xY%2Fp3hnTcB%2FqrFOn5fS%2BCePzLZtcq3ztV%2B6fsSmCs0%2BR4RiF2jKBUpcoKbZsdA%2BpVIMRXz94rDLzskrJVOyfOAWJTerFr%2FSLd%2FRRnMzJNWluqBSnbSdycKZnHYmO86k4M%2F5BmRnkqTLAgAA.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A%3D&bn=Ax%20Crusader%20Boss

 

[racer1]

I tried the Crusader for the first time last night and also liked it.

I did a bit of PvE RES and USS combat. Seemed pretty capable and cheap as you say OP.

I've not tried the other 3 new ships in 3.x yet so maybe that is why I like it...

 

[Darksnow47]

Just to explain why I calculate the numbers like crazy. 6 medium Gauss hits and 3 hearth hits are required for cyclops. For the small it seems to be 10 for the hull and 4 for the hearth.

That means with most crusader loadouts it will require 3 salvos for the hull and 2 for the hearth. Question is: whats the minimum slots required with least thermal load to achieve this? So that you can use the rest for scout stuff

 

[Madrax573]

I like the Sader, to me flys like a beefed up keelback!

It's just a pity I'm always so poor otherwise it would probably make my fleet more often.

 

[HazardousMatt]

Does the Crusader have a weak canopy like the Chieftain and Challenger?

 

[Ethaidan]

@OP - Well thank you for sharing, and it's nice that you have tried to form an educated opinion based on actually testing out the Crusader, but...

It was already firmly established the day after the Crusader was introduced that this ship is nothing but a yet another clone - 'Chieftain with an SLF' - that offered no real difference to the Chieftain or it's earlier clone, and stands as proof that FDev are lazy and the game is clealy in maintenance mode. You might want to take this common knowledge, bestowed upon us by far greater minds than yours, and have a long think about the implications of what you have suggested in your OP.

PS I hate you. Now I want to buy & try one, and I'm still just now getting on with my Chieftain!

 

[Madrax573]

@OP - Well thank you for sharing, and it's nice that you have tried to form an educated opinion based on actually testing out the Crusader, but...

It was already firmly established the day after the Crusader was introduced that this ship is nothing but a yet another clone - 'Chieftain with an SLF' - that offered no real difference to the Chieftain or it's earlier clone, and stands as proof that FDev are lazy and the game is clealy in maintenance mode. You might want to take this common knowledge, bestowed upon us by far greater minds than yours, and have a long think about the implications of what you have suggested in your OP.

PS I hate you. Now I want to buy & try one, and I'm still just now getting on with my Chieftain!

This is just a bunch of blowhards that think they deserve more and more...

there is nothing wrong with doing variants of ships, just like real life where you get 2-3 different versions of a car.....

I'd recommend you go out and try it, it's a really good ship rather than listen to forum whiners about how 'lazy' FDev are imo.

 

[Darksnow47]

Does the Crusader have a weak canopy like the Chieftain and Challenger?

When using 1 Module Reenforcement Package it's ok. When hull tanking the Cyclops for a long while and taking extended frontal damage it will start to crack a little but you can easily repair with AFM.

Only time I lost the canopy was with 20% hull left when I had a very buggy run in multicrew.

I would say the canopy seems to act like expected... i prefer to have more hull instead of additional MRPs because the % hull left will dictate how much shots can penetrate your armor... according to the penetration chart in the link below.
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Bulkheads

For full hull tanking 2 MRP would be better I guess...

 

[Thrym]

I tried it. Flew several hours in it, even. Given the seat time I have in the Challenger and Chieftan, I think that, perhaps, I don't need considerable time with this one to see what it has to offer.

It is factually the same module bay as the Chieftan, both internals and optionals. That's the way it is.

It is the same flight model with more weight applied. It's rather easy to identify it. The added weight gives a much more pronounced drift, combined with slower top speed and acceleration. It also means less shielding. It does also mean the same tight turns, executed with less thrust due to the "weighty" feel.

It IS a heavier chieftan with an SLF and a medium instead of extra large hardpoint. It's not a matter of viewpoint, it's a simple matter that this is what the Crusader is.

That doesn't mean you should automatically dislike it. That doesn't mean it automatically has no place, nor does it mean anyone is lazy. And yet that doesn't change what this ship is.

For me, I don't particularly care for it. In fact, for my tastes, this thing is a hunk of junk. The things I like about the Chieftan are the near instantaneous acceleration after hard maneuvering, the solid hybridization of the shield/hull dynamic(great hrp/mrp package as well as reasonable shields+shield cell bank), and the pair of large hardpoints that help with hunting large game. Essentially, the Crusader loses the strengths of the Chieftan while retaining its basic airframe limitations. By comparison, the Challenger also loses some of the chieftan hairpin, but not so much as to make it feel like it is slogging, but rather just enough to make it feel "smooth"--and it has expanded internals to retain the other characteristics.

If a person prefers a more slogging, tanky ship, they may like this thing better. If they like the SLF well enough to deal with tradeoffs, they may also like this thing better. I actually think this ship pairs well with the other two in that it offers the same Chieftan package with a variant that allows yet another playstyle to it. I think it'd pair even better with 25-50 tonnes less weight and another five or six sized optional--at that point, I think we'd really have something. Spiritually, it works just as well with the Chief/Challenger as the Gunship(a fine ship, but also a plodding mess that I can't bring myself to like) does with the dropship and assault ship.

Calling names to it's detractors doesn't give that information, and with that info a person is more than capable of coming to their own conclusions. The only real "blow hards" I'm seeing on these forums are the ones that have determined that an opposing viewpoint is nothing but whining.

 

[Darksnow47]

I tried it. Flew several hours in it, even. Given the seat time I have in the Challenger and Chieftan, I think that, perhaps, I don't need considerable time with this one to see what it has to offer.

It is factually the same module bay as the Chieftan, both internals and optionals. That's the way it is.

It is the same flight model with more weight applied. It's rather easy to identify it. The added weight gives a much more pronounced drift, combined with slower top speed and acceleration. It also means less shielding. It does also mean the same tight turns, executed with less thrust due to the "weighty" feel.

It IS a heavier chieftan with an SLF and a medium instead of extra large hardpoint. It's not a matter of viewpoint, it's a simple matter that this is what the Crusader is.

That doesn't mean you should automatically dislike it. That doesn't mean it automatically has no place, nor does it mean anyone is lazy. And yet that doesn't change what this ship is.

For me, I don't particularly care for it. In fact, for my tastes, this thing is a hunk of junk. The things I like about the Chieftan are the near instantaneous acceleration after hard maneuvering, the solid hybridization of the shield/hull dynamic(great hrp/mrp package as well as reasonable shields+shield cell bank), and the pair of large hardpoints that help with hunting large game. Essentially, the Crusader loses the strengths of the Chieftan while retaining its basic airframe limitations. By comparison, the Challenger also loses some of the chieftan hairpin, but not so much as to make it feel like it is slogging, but rather just enough to make it feel "smooth"--and it has expanded internals to retain the other characteristics.

If a person prefers a more slogging, tanky ship, they may like this thing better. If they like the SLF well enough to deal with tradeoffs, they may also like this thing better. I actually think this ship pairs well with the other two in that it offers the same Chieftan package with a variant that allows yet another playstyle to it. I think it'd pair even better with 25-50 tonnes less weight and another five or six sized optional--at that point, I think we'd really have something. Spiritually, it works just as well with the Chief/Challenger as the Gunship(a fine ship, but also a plodding mess that I can't bring myself to like) does with the dropship and assault ship.

Calling names to it's detractors doesn't give that information, and with that info a person is more than capable of coming to their own conclusions. The only real "blow hards" I'm seeing on these forums are the ones that have determined that an opposing viewpoint is nothing but whining.

Thanks for giving it a try and de fact based conclusion. +Rep
It really comes down to how important the SLF is for someone. The fact that you didnt like the gunship makes it clear that this is not your type of ship. Which is perfectly fine

 

[Madrax573]

The sader has 1 more optional than the Chief (the class 4 in the chief gets split into 2 class 3's) while the total cargo/passengers etc is the same as the chief it is really the key to allow the SLF not become the overpowering module like I find it in the FGS.

 

[Darksnow47]

Just to explain why I calculate the numbers like crazy. 6 medium Gauss hits and 3 hearth hits are required for cyclops. For the small it seems to be 10 for the hull and 4 for the hearth.

That means with most crusader loadouts it will require 3 salvos for the hull and 2 for the hearth. Question is: whats the minimum slots required with least thermal load to achieve this? So that you can use the rest for scout stuff

I tried 1medium+1small Gauss yesterday in combination with 2 AX turrets and 2 small beams. You can still snipe hearths with 2 salvos on cyclops but to exert the hearth it takes a little bit more at the beginning of the fight. Maybe 4 salvos under 1500m. It worked still good enough for me to kill 2 cyclops and scout killing is a lot faster. For a full cyclops loadout I would still recommend 3 small or 2 medium.

Tipp: the beam turrets make it a lot easier to hit scouts with the gauss cannon because you can see them better

 

[Farran]

I am glad I finally get to see a well-documented viewpoint of someone who likes the Crusader. Thanks for that! I like reading stuff like this. I also like some of the less roundly appreciated ships, so it is great to see others speaking up for the ships everyone else complains about (I consider the Asp Scout my main right now because the handling makes it hard to want to fly anything else, and I mostly do exploration and help people at Guardian ruins lately so it works out fine).

Might have to pass on the Crusader for now, myself. I am much more fond of ships that have more fighter-like handling (responsive, fast, and agile), and I have not stuck my fingers into the xenohunting pie yet at all. But, if I get to fly support for someone who is, I will definitely keep it in mind. The ability to deploy a fighter and the well-rounded selection of hardpoints are not fully unique to it but if it handles better than the Gunship, it would certainly appeal to me more.

Although, if the maneuvering thrusters are more responsive than the Challenger, we are in business, and it so happens I am considering a combat ship right now. The slight delay in response in the Challenger actually made it annoying to scoop materials when I was poking around in signal sources compared to my other ships. Any comment on that?

 

[Darksnow47]

I am glad I finally get to see a well-documented viewpoint of someone who likes the Crusader. Thanks for that! I like reading stuff like this. I also like some of the less roundly appreciated ships, so it is great to see others speaking up for the ships everyone else complains about (I consider the Asp Scout my main right now because the handling makes it hard to want to fly anything else, and I mostly do exploration and help people at Guardian ruins lately so it works out fine).

Might have to pass on the Crusader for now, myself. I am much more fond of ships that have more fighter-like handling (responsive, fast, and agile), and I have not stuck my fingers into the xenohunting pie yet at all. But, if I get to fly support for someone who is, I will definitely keep it in mind. The ability to deploy a fighter and the well-rounded selection of hardpoints are not fully unique to it but if it handles better than the Gunship, it would certainly appeal to me more.

Although, if the maneuvering thrusters are more responsive than the Challenger, we are in business, and it so happens I am considering a combat ship right now. The slight delay in response in the Challenger actually made it annoying to scoop materials when I was poking around in signal sources compared to my other ships. Any comment on that?

You can find a great comparison here https://youtu.be/jDNX1pME2KY

The Challenger is more agile then Crusader. But I can say the following from experience. The Gunship feels like the Appache helicopter and relies heavely on FA-off. On the Crusader I can dogfight easely with 2 ENG pips and dont feel the need to FA-off in turns etc.

 

[Turnspit]

I can only say positive things about the Crusader myself as well, despite all the universal hate it seems to be getting.

Loving the flavour of a SLF by my side, the Gunship was my favourite ship on my previous "playthrough". After restarting and not having the needed rank, I think the Crusader is more than a viable alternative to the Gunship without the rank lock.

Outfitted the Crusader, already did some engineering (still a few things to do) and LOVE it! Flies beautfilly, although quite drifty, packs quite some punch, has my beloved SLF and also has a proper jump range - although I would wish for a class 4 instead of the class 3 compartment for a bigger Fuel Scoop, this would make it perfect for me.

This is what I'm currently sporting:

https://s.orbis.zone/xev