I still hate the new style of exploration even after adjusting to it.

It's ungodly slow VS how it used to be, rewards people who only care about money/cherrypickers, and hides 99% of the information I had before the update behind the dumbest "minigame" I have ever seen. Maybe some people have standards low enough that spinning around and zooming in is considered "fun and engaging" and "exciting" but I sure don't.

Spending usually 3-15 minutes just to get one damn system mapped isn't exciting. Not when you have hundreds of specific places to visit, now I have to decide when to skip a system entirely and when to take a chance because their is literally not enough time to do both.

I used to be able to jump into a system, scan, and look at every body. I could see distance from the main star, proximity to other objects, size of the object, whether they were binary or trinary and the like, I could guess if it was mountainous or flat, large or small. I found hundreds of interesting systems just based on the initial ads scan.

For example, I found a planet that orbits so close to the rings of a gas giant you could fly into its atmosphere if that were possible, it also orbits around the gas giant fast enough for it to be noticeably moving. And I figured it was a interesintg place because the ads honk showed it was the exact same distance from the main star as the gas giant was, so i knew it had a very close orbit to the gas giant. I didn't need the new exploration system to find that out, I literally just figured it out based purely on distance from the main star. And it took about 10 seconds to do so, I didn't have to spend what would have been probably over 15 minutes scanning a 80 body system just to find the one area that was interesting.

Now I have to spend 5-10 minutes playing a stupid mini game just to get the same information I had before. And God forbid I miss one.

FD killed an entire way of exploration, knew they were doing it, and didn't do anything about it.

I cared about every system I jumped too. I gave every system I jumped to a chance.

Now I can't do that. The only thing that saves me is that I'm really really good at finding interesting systems from the galaxy map.

Whereas before I explored every system in some form or another, now I only can only pray I didn't waste 10 minutes scanning something useless every now and then.

I wish FD would bring back the old ADS, let it do what it did before but give no credit reward unless you do a detailed scan of the planet up close.

Given a choice between money and exploration, I'd choose exploration every time. I hate this current system. It rewards people who care more about money then ever before and timegates the number of systems you can look into detail for by a absolutely massive margin.

It's not about "adjusting" like so many people who didn't understand what I was talking about said so long ago when the changes were in beta, I adjusted the day it came out. I just DON'T LIKE IT. The mere fact that I might miss an interesting system because I don't have time to spend 3-15 minutes to scan and look over every system eats at me to the point where I haven't gone exploring in over a year.
 
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15 minutes is a very long time to scan a system - even if there are 80 bodies. i use the mouse to move the camera and i rotate it so the orbiting line is horizontal. My mouse is a logitech G3 and it has an increased DPI button on top. i press that and i get accelerated movement for panning the camera. i use the roller mouse to zoom in/out.
i use EDMC with the Canonn plugin to show me any interesting bodies (terraforamble, close orbits, etc). i would have to time myself to get an average, but i'd be surprised that a large system would take longer than 5 minutes.
 
I'm not sure anyone looking to make big money quickly is going to be exploring. They'd probably be mining. Those who love exploring will mine for like 1 or 2 days, bank, and then go back to exploring or something. For those who love exploration, there is no decision to be made -- they'll explore.

Seriously, I just took a trip from Sol to Colonia to Sgr A* to Beagle Point to Salome's Reach that took days. I probably could make more money mining LTD for a few hours than I did on this trip. lol. I did it because money is not that big a deal any more in this game.

I do understand about your preference for exploration the old way, but I don't agree that it means you'll have to choose between making money or exploration. Everything can't be made "easier" or there wouldn't be a game to play. I think they've made a lot of aspects about exploration, mining, money-making, etc. a lot easier to the point there's no effort in it, or at least there's an argument to be made for that.

I remember a few years ago, there'd be no way I'd make the trip to Beagle Point with a maximum of 34 or so LY jump ranges (and I didn't). Now everybody and their mother can easily get a 50-60+ LY jump range ship. To put this in perspective, during this COVID-19 lockdown, here's what I've done : bought a heavily-engineered Corvette, ground my way up from nothing to a heavily-outfitted Cutter mining ship, ran from Sol to SgrA* to Salome's Reach, pretty much finished most of my engineers (still have maybe a couple to do - have to do) and while doing all this, ran my bank account from about 1 billion to 13 billion. I remember when making a few million in a CG was considered incredible. I came back to the game and 20 million was like "WOW". Now? I'm not even bothering to grind mining LTD's unless I see a payout of 1.4-1.7 million per LTD. My hauls are usually 500M to 800M per day. I don't think I ever mined until I came back to the game a couple of months ago and saw what people were making mining LTD's, but I did it because it gave me a safety net for doing other stuff I enjoy like exploring here and there, buying a fleet carrier, maybe buying multiple Cutters or Corvettes and not worrying about outfitting them.

I know what you're saying, but ... if you keep making everything easy, nothing is worth doing and everything becomes a mindless grind.
 
My interaction with the older system was very brief.
But i find the FSS so much better.

Cherry picking? Possible with both systems
Exploring an entire system? FSS way faster
Honk to reveal the full system then decide if you want to flyby to a body to "discover" it? Not much of a gameplay (*)

(*) Not like FSS offers much more gameplay, but overall is waaay better
 
15 minutes is a very long time to scan a system - even if there are 80 bodies. i use the mouse to move the camera and i rotate it so the orbiting line is horizontal. My mouse is a logitech G3 and it has an increased DPI button on top. i press that and i get accelerated movement for panning the camera. i use the roller mouse to zoom in/out.
i use EDMC with the Canonn plugin to show me any interesting bodies (terraforamble, close orbits, etc). i would have to time myself to get an average, but i'd be surprised that a large system would take longer than 5 minutes.

I'm on console 99% of the time. But even on PC it still takes far longer.



I'm not sure anyone looking to make big money quickly is going to be exploring. They'd probably be mining. Those who love exploring will mine for like 1 or 2 days, bank, and then go back to exploring or something. For those who love exploration, there is no decision to be made -- they'll explore.

Seriously, I just took a trip from Sol to Colonia to Sgr A* to Beagle Point to Salome's Reach that took days. I probably could make more money mining LTD for a few hours than I did on this trip. lol. I did it because money is not that big a deal any more in this game.

I do understand about your preference for exploration the old way, but I don't agree that it means you'll have to choose between making money or exploration. Everything can't be made "easier" or there wouldn't be a game to play. I think they've made a lot of aspects about exploration, mining, money-making, etc. a lot easier to the point there's no effort in it, or at least there's an argument to be made for that.

I remember a few years ago, there'd be no way I'd make the trip to Beagle Point with a maximum of 34 or so LY jump ranges (and I didn't). Now everybody and their mother can easily get a 50-60+ LY jump range ship. To put this in perspective, during this COVID-19 lockdown, here's what I've done : bought a heavily-engineered Corvette, ground my way up from nothing to a heavily-outfitted Cutter mining ship, ran from Sol to SgrA* to Salome's Reach, pretty much finished most of my engineers (still have maybe a couple to do - have to do) and while doing all this, ran my bank account from about 1 billion to 13 billion. I remember when making a few million in a CG was considered incredible. I came back to the game and 20 million was like "WOW". Now? I'm not even bothering to grind mining LTD's unless I see a payout of 1.4-1.7 million per LTD. My hauls are usually 500M to 800M per day. I don't think I ever mined until I came back to the game a couple of months ago and saw what people were making mining LTD's, but I did it because it gave me a safety net for doing other stuff I enjoy like exploring here and there, buying a fleet carrier, maybe buying multiple Cutters or Corvettes and not worrying about outfitting them.

I know what you're saying, but ... if you keep making everything easy, nothing is worth doing and everything becomes a mindless grind.

My post has nothing to do with wanting to earn money. At all. I even at the end said I would give up making all money from exploration if I could get the old ADS system.

Also why are you talking about difficulty. Their is literally zero difficulty in the new system. It's literally just the old system except 99% of the data you got previously is now time gated. Unless you think think turning around in circles and zooming in is complicated gameplay.

My post is ONLY about exploration being worse for me and others who played like me. It's about how it's time consuming, boring, and forces you to either decide between missing potential amazing locations and wasting massive amounts of time scanning every single system.


My interaction with the older system was very brief.
But i find the FSS so much better.

Cherry picking? Possible with both systems
Exploring an entire system? FSS way faster
Honk to reveal the full system then decide if you want to flyby to a body to "discover" it? Not much of a gameplay (*)

(*) Not like FSS offers much more gameplay, but overall is waaay better

1. I didn't say you couldn't cherry pick with the old system. I said the new system makes it easier to play like that.
2. It's faster if you want to individually scan every body. It's NOT faster if you knew what to look for, it's actually on average 5-10 times slower. Because the old ADS showed every body and many relevant details immediately, this new system you have to go find every body by it self. Look at the below quote of my OP:

"For example, I found a planet that orbits so close to the rings of a gas giant you could fly into its atmosphere if that were possible, it also orbits around the gas giant fast enough for it to be noticeably moving. And I figured it was a interesintg place because the ads honk showed it was the exact same distance from the main star as the gas giant was, so i knew it had a very close orbit to the gas giant. I didn't need the new exploration system to find that out, I literally just figured it out based purely on distance from the main star. And it took about 10 seconds to do so, I didn't have to spend what would have been probably over 15 minutes scanning a 80 body system just to find the one area that was interesting."

3.
Honk to reveal the full system then decide if you want to flyby to a body to "discover" it? Not much of a gameplay (*)

Zooming in on circles tens of thousands of times isn't great gameplay either genius.

The point I made earlier is that the end result of both systems is the same. Except the new one makes almost everything take longer.

I have to spend 5 minutes scanning every body to find those three gas giants within 40ls of each other with the new system, when in the old system I could do it within seconds.

Both systems are terrible but at least the former let people find interesting things far faster.

And BTW, interesting for YOU might just mean money. But for people like me, it actually means interesting places. So a planet and two moons all orbiting within 5ls of each other orbiting a star 25ls away is interesting to me.

I'd take that over an average earthlike any day of the week.

But if I wanted to find that system assuming it wasn't the primary star, I'd have to scan every planet and star in that system individually till I found it. Except with the old system I'd see it immediately.




You people seem to think that just because you get the "discovered by" tag on all bodies in a system foster, that makes this system foster overall. But clearly none of you explored the way people like me did. I hate to name drop, but even ObsidianAnt used to explore the exact same way I did and told me as much himself.

You need to understand something. Exploration is not just putting your name on something for everyone. It's about finding truly wonderful things, maybe not always things that are 100% unique, but still awe inspiring.

Here's a perfect example:

Source: https://youtu.be/CSwte6iXCQ8?t=423


See that planet with the crater and how I framed it VS the star? I went into every system on that journey with a gigantic checklist of things I wanted to try and find, one of them was "big crater in the core near a star" because I wanted to do a flyby of that planet with a dramatic backdrop.

You know how I find this one which matched my criqireia perfectly? I honked the ADS, opened the system map, and looked for every single star that had a planet near it. Without even having to have a detailed scan on it, I could tell if it would have craters or not, if it did, and it was close enough to that star, I knew I had a winner.

This planet was orbiting a star that was not the primary star, it was a 67 body system. So I opened the map, looked for stars with planets, found multiple, saw this one had a star/planet that matched the distance (You can tell if bodies are close to each other by distance from the primary star, so if one is 67,0001 ls away from the main star and the planet is 67,0002 ls away from the main star, I know they are orbiting each other very close even without flying to them).

After hundreds of different systems, I found the exact one I needed within seconds of opening my map after an ADS honk.

Now tell me how fast it would have taken for me to scour hundreds of systems with the new system to do the exact same thing.

The answer we both know is, MUCH MUCH MUCH slower. And yet the end result is the same because the new system just HIDES the data we used to get before instantly behind a time wall where you zoom in and out.



Do you understand what I mean now? It's not about just getting "discovered by" on every planet. In that case YES, the new system is DRAMATICALLY faster. But that is LITERALLY the only way it's faster then the old one.
 
My post has nothing to do with wanting to earn money. At all. I even at the end said I would give up making all money from exploration if I could get the old ADS system.

Because your very first sentence says the system rewards people who only care about money as one of the groups the system is geared towards. To which I responded, nobody who only cares about money is going to be doing exploration.

Also why are you talking about difficulty. Their is literally zero difficulty in the new system. It's literally just the old system except 99% of the data you got previously is now time gated. Unless you think think turning around in circles and zooming in is complicated gameplay.

The difficulty is in the grind that's added by the time-sink. If it weren't, you wouldn't be complaining, because it affected the way you play. The whole "grind" in this game is part of the sucky difficulty in it. It's not about the skill in flying to Colonia to go meet the new engineers or their skills, it's just "are you willing to plod all the way up there for hours (for some)"?

It sounded to me like you were saying it was easier in the past because you used to be able to just jump into a system and quickly know 90% of what you needed to know to do what you needed to do without making the effort to scan or spin in a mini-game. Seems like a difficulty thing to me by my definition. If you want to call it an "unnecessary grind thing", then that's cool, too. It still sounds like a complaint about more effort required now than before for the way you play, which i don't disagree with -- it is.

Believe me, I get it. But I'll go further and say the majority of people don't play the way you do. Not that there's anything wrong with how you play. I even go so far as to say, as a part-time explorer/part-time miner I enjoy watching videos like you posted above sometimes more than playing the game because I could never get those shots. I'm always left wondering, "why don't I ever get those shots?" Well, duh, because I don't have that level of patience, and I don't play the game that way. I'm always hoping to find some new life-form or aliens that FDev plopped on some random planet that nobody's discovered yet... but it's always the same geysers, rocks, and craters. I flew to Beagle Point/SgrA* simply because it was a cool thing to do in terms of the history of the game. I didn't care about tagging my name on systems/bodies along the way. Half the time, nobody cares who tagged a system first with the exception of a handful of systems.
 
I wish FD would bring back the old ADS, let it do what it did before but give no credit reward unless you do a detailed scan of the planet up close.

This is really all they'd need to do. And frankly they could even make it so that it's not possible to target anything from the system map, it's not like the FSS is difficult to use once you've determined that there's something there you'd like to scan or investigate.

And to me that's always been the point. I don't mind doing the FSS game if there's something I'm interested in, I don't want to be forced to do it to find out if there's something I'm interested in. So my exploration gameplay now has become scanning a system if it has AW, ELW or WW, all of which can easily be identified before scanning anything, and that's basically it. If I find interesting planetary layouts or other things (and I do sometimes), that's a bonus, but I'm sure I'm missing plenty also.

As I've said often before, adding more depth to exploration, different tools that let you identify if a system is of interest (since different people are interested in different things) would have been a really good move. Assuming that everybody is interested only in typical high value bodies, all of which are identifiable before you need to scan anything and forcing everything through the FSS - not so much.
 
Just need to add the functionality of the old detection system to the primary "buzzer".

At first, I didn't like this new system either. I even gave up the game for a long time... At the time - yes, longer. I don't talk about mapping at all, you can spend an hour on one system.

In any case, both the primary and redesigned system for searching for celestial bodies looks strange for 3300+ years. Even now, the spectrograph determines the presence of certain gases in the atmosphere of planets located tens of light years from the observer... And from the point of view of searching and determining the terrain and other things, the feasibility of flying a spacecraft to the planets is not effective.
 
I'm on console 99% of the time. But even on PC it still takes far longer.





My post has nothing to do with wanting to earn money. At all. I even at the end said I would give up making all money from exploration if I could get the old ADS system.

Also why are you talking about difficulty. Their is literally zero difficulty in the new system. It's literally just the old system except 99% of the data you got previously is now time gated. Unless you think think turning around in circles and zooming in is complicated gameplay.

My post is ONLY about exploration being worse for me and others who played like me. It's about how it's time consuming, boring, and forces you to either decide between missing potential amazing locations and wasting massive amounts of time scanning every single system.




1. I didn't say you couldn't cherry pick with the old system. I said the new system makes it easier to play like that.
2. It's faster if you want to individually scan every body. It's NOT faster if you knew what to look for, it's actually on average 5-10 times slower. Because the old ADS showed every body and many relevant details immediately, this new system you have to go find every body by it self. Look at the below quote of my OP:

"For example, I found a planet that orbits so close to the rings of a gas giant you could fly into its atmosphere if that were possible, it also orbits around the gas giant fast enough for it to be noticeably moving. And I figured it was a interesintg place because the ads honk showed it was the exact same distance from the main star as the gas giant was, so i knew it had a very close orbit to the gas giant. I didn't need the new exploration system to find that out, I literally just figured it out based purely on distance from the main star. And it took about 10 seconds to do so, I didn't have to spend what would have been probably over 15 minutes scanning a 80 body system just to find the one area that was interesting."

3.

Zooming in on circles tens of thousands of times isn't great gameplay either genius.

The point I made earlier is that the end result of both systems is the same. Except the new one makes almost everything take longer.

I have to spend 5 minutes scanning every body to find those three gas giants within 40ls of each other with the new system, when in the old system I could do it within seconds.

Both systems are terrible but at least the former let people find interesting things far faster.

And BTW, interesting for YOU might just mean money. But for people like me, it actually means interesting places. So a planet and two moons all orbiting within 5ls of each other orbiting a star 25ls away is interesting to me.

I'd take that over an average earthlike any day of the week.

But if I wanted to find that system assuming it wasn't the primary star, I'd have to scan every planet and star in that system individually till I found it. Except with the old system I'd see it immediately.




You people seem to think that just because you get the "discovered by" tag on all bodies in a system foster, that makes this system foster overall. But clearly none of you explored the way people like me did. I hate to name drop, but even ObsidianAnt used to explore the exact same way I did and told me as much himself.

You need to understand something. Exploration is not just putting your name on something for everyone. It's about finding truly wonderful things, maybe not always things that are 100% unique, but still awe inspiring.

Here's a perfect example:

Source: https://youtu.be/CSwte6iXCQ8?t=423


See that planet with the crater and how I framed it VS the star? I went into every system on that journey with a gigantic checklist of things I wanted to try and find, one of them was "big crater in the core near a star" because I wanted to do a flyby of that planet with a dramatic backdrop.

You know how I find this one which matched my criqireia perfectly? I honked the ADS, opened the system map, and looked for every single star that had a planet near it. Without even having to have a detailed scan on it, I could tell if it would have craters or not, if it did, and it was close enough to that star, I knew I had a winner.

This planet was orbiting a star that was not the primary star, it was a 67 body system. So I opened the map, looked for stars with planets, found multiple, saw this one had a star/planet that matched the distance (You can tell if bodies are close to each other by distance from the primary star, so if one is 67,0001 ls away from the main star and the planet is 67,0002 ls away from the main star, I know they are orbiting each other very close even without flying to them).

After hundreds of different systems, I found the exact one I needed within seconds of opening my map after an ADS honk.

Now tell me how fast it would have taken for me to scour hundreds of systems with the new system to do the exact same thing.

The answer we both know is, MUCH MUCH MUCH slower. And yet the end result is the same because the new system just HIDES the data we used to get before instantly behind a time wall where you zoom in and out.



Do you understand what I mean now? It's not about just getting "discovered by" on every planet. In that case YES, the new system is DRAMATICALLY faster. But that is LITERALLY the only way it's faster then the old one.

You are making a lot of assumptions about what i'm after when exploring.
If i want to make money, i go mining not exploring.
Exploration means looking for interesting things and FSS can provide more information, way faster.

My main is on XB - FSS works a lot slower than on PC since one cannot adjust sensitivity at all (they should really allow sensitivity settings in FSS on consoles)
Still FSS-ing a full system takes usually a couple of minutes for a medium system (20-30 bodies)

On PC, FSS it's a breeze - the fact that one can pump up mouse sensitivity can really make FSS 2-3 times faster than on XB

In the end, as i already said, FSS can find me interesting things way faster than fly-by to various bodies.
You have all the data, at a glance, in the system map plus the nice Orrerey views.
 
You are making a lot of assumptions about what i'm after when exploring.
If i want to make money, i go mining not exploring.
Exploration means looking for interesting things and FSS can provide more information, way faster.

My main is on XB - FSS works a lot slower than on PC since one cannot adjust sensitivity at all (they should really allow sensitivity settings in FSS on consoles)
Still FSS-ing a full system takes usually a couple of minutes for a medium system (20-30 bodies)

On PC, FSS it's a breeze - the fact that one can pump up mouse sensitivity can really make FSS 2-3 times faster than on XB

In the end, as i already said, FSS can find me interesting things way faster than fly-by to various bodies.
You have all the data, at a glance, in the system map plus the nice Orrerey views.

It is way slower to find interesting things in FSS. In the legacy system map potato planets, large landable planets, gas giant moon of another gas giant, etc. were there at a glance once you could read it properly. Now it is hidden behind a stupid minigame.
It wasn't an issue if most system would contain something nice, but it is rather one in hundred...
 
It is way slower to find interesting things in FSS. In the legacy system map potato planets, large landable planets, gas giant moon of another gas giant, etc. were there at a glance once you could read it properly. Now it is hidden behind a stupid minigame.

So you had all the information at a glance with a single honk?
And if the interesting body was at 3 kls distance you din not had to fly to it?
And if there was another interesting body 2 kls, but in the opposite direction of the orbital plane, again you did not had to fly to it - this time 3+2 kls

And it was faster, you say? Notice that i said nothing about that Amonia world 30 kls away or about the ELW 200 kls away - because those you might want to surface map anyway. (Or maybe not)
And you could also spot the bio/geo POIs using the same single magic Honk?

🤷‍♂️
 
So you had all the information at a glance with a single honk?
And if the interesting body was at 3 kls distance you din not had to fly to it?
And if there was another interesting body 2 kls, but in the opposite direction of the orbital plane, again you did not had to fly to it - this time 3+2 kls

And it was faster, you say? Notice that i said nothing about that Amonia world 30 kls away or about the ELW 200 kls away - because those you might want to surface map anyway. (Or maybe not)
And you could also spot the bio/geo POIs using the same single magic Honk?

🤷‍♂️

If the body was interesting for any reasons, like geography, color, eccentric orbit, size whatever - then I fly there anyway. For example, large icy bodies have a tendency to have very eccentric orbits, I found quite a few using the old system. Now with FSS, it is impossible to tell the size of the planet without tuning in, and no way I will start to go through all mundane ice worlds one-by-one.

AWs and ELWs are not that common to be an issue to fly to them. I left a lot of WWs unexplored in the old system, but I don't feel it like a loss...

POIs are easier to find, sure, that's a plus. But to me it does not compensate for the loss of finding interesting locations/vistas.
 
Not quite sure why we're arguing which is faster again. FSS is faster for those who want to tag everything in a system; ADS was faster for people who were looking for certain, specific things. If you're searching hundreds or thousands of systems for something, the FSS gets old fast

We probably need the FSS lovers to stop defending it - you've got your mini-game, go enjoy it. Similarly, FSS haters probably need to stop explaining why those who love it are wrong 🤷‍♂️ . Neither set of people will convince the other.

I wish FD would bring back the old ADS, let it do what it did before but give no credit reward unless you do a detailed scan of the planet up close.

I've said exactly this before. Even some of the bigger proponents of the FSS agreed a mutually exclusive option to have either/or woud've been an acceptable compromise. FDev didn't agree or don't care.
Sadly, it is what it is so either accept the mechanic as-is or find something else to play; it's not changing any time soon.
 
It's not about "adjusting" like so many people who didn't understand what I was talking about said so long ago when the changes were in beta, I adjusted the day it came out. I just DON'T LIKE IT. The mere fact that I might miss an interesting system because I don't have time to spend 3-15 minutes to scan and look over every system eats at me to the point where I haven't gone exploring in over a year.

I agree. The FSS is why I don't play Elite anymore, it killed exploration for me. And I tried to like it, I explored over a thousand systems with it, but eventually the minigame wore me down and I just can't stand it anymore.

I hate saying this, but I miss the ADS.
 
I actually like it. Spent a couple of weeks scanning and mapping gas giants only and that, targetting of bodies, for me adds a level of interest that a 'discover all' button was never equipped with. The worser thing about the update for me was the end of parallax scanning but I like the way the system unfolds - and you get clues about orbits - under FSS for the Orrery.
 
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