I still like Horizons!

[babelfisch]

The more i think about it, this event will be quite difficult to accept.

With consoles, they only shut down hopium, they haven't committed any mechanical fault. Everyone is still whole to what was bought.

On pc, if they go ahead with this, they will be literally taking away from people the ability to play the game.. spent thousands of hours or hundreds of dollars with. Turning it off the game practically is certainly a fault.

I didn't register it at the time, but i think that's why it sounds indirectly offensive when people are just saying they're sad but waiting for all the goodbye posts when frontier disables the game for me.. just because they said something last year and since gave up on something else in the mean time.. its just bad luck in circumstance, no more elite dangerous for you?

I think its a little bit more interesting for effected people than a sad casual handwave.

Will pc players get free account transfers to console if you can't play it on pc anymore? Why not?

----------------

EDIT: Okay in hindsight that is a bit dramatic. But having to play elite with the odd graphical downgrades and engine that crashes in fps after the second station you dock at is... well how acceptable is that?

I turned stars up to 200kish at the moment and it horizons looks so good. Probably works for odd too.

The only real problem is performance, everything else is just different taste which hardly is a reason against an update considering it's what has been happening since 8 years and always was part of the deal.

Anyway, the way I understand it the original idea was to be already done with the code merge, but it didn't happen yet because of the bad performance. So my guess would be that the merge will be delayed until (if ever) performance is improved.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The only real problem is performance, everything else is just different taste which hardly is a reason against an update considering it's what has been happening since 8 years and always was part of the deal.

Anyway, the way I understand it the original idea was to be already done with the code merge, but it didn't happen yet because of the bad performance. So my guess would be that the merge will be delayed until (if ever) performance is improved.

Yes, if they made performance.. functional(?) then it would be easier to accept. There would also be console versions and much fewer valid complaints on pc.

I guess we just have to see how giving up on elite evolves over time.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I'm guessing you either tried it on a bad headset with screen-door effect or no peripheral view

Or just thought "That's nice" and continued to play in both modes?

Its okay to be honest.

Is there a caveat there?

What's the bug Odyssey has with FC trading?

Currently it is impossible to transfer stolen goods directly from the FC to ship. The only work around is to set up a sell order on the Secure storage, or jump into Horizons and transfer.

ED's VR is pretty good for presenting a sense of scale. But as it is purely a seated 'headlook' experience it isn't exactly awesome, but it does work, mostly...

I still like Horizons too! It is excellent for moving my FC long distances on my laptop!

 

[Northpin]

Given odd bases and content are on horizons planets, how could they prevent horizons players getting in the middle of new odd content? Maybe thats okay?

I would assume that would be ok given the fact that a Horizons player cannot disembark

But there is a caveat - PEGI7 - which would mean that a PEGI7 Horizons player will be able to use a SRV to run over an Odyssey player going full Carmageddon, and that would definitely not be PEGI7

The only solution i see out of this, is to prevent any form of instancing between EDO and Horizons players below the exclusion zone of Horizons planets. Which may be more complicated to implement than it sounds.

 

[Old Duck]

The only real problem is performance, everything else is just different taste which hardly is a reason against an update considering it's what has been happening since 8 years and always was part of the deal.

This happens all the time in many online games, but there's always a risk of driving away players if the changes made are changes they don't want. There's a lot about Odyssey that I don't like besides performance, but whether those things would be enough for me to toss in the towel and uninstall Elite once-for-all, I honestly don't know. I mean, I have to deal with one of the worst UIs ever in X4 Foundations, yet I still get enjoyment out of that game, so I can adapt to certain "downgrades" if the core gameplay is still enticing enough. And then there's lighting, the new planet tech, VR bugs, etc.. But if Horizons is replaced with Oddy Lite, I will at least give it a try. Who knows, maybe I'll end up liking it.

But as you say, performance is a non-negotiable. I absolutely refuse to play any game at the framerates I've seen some people getting. I did that tour of duty as a child playing Flight Simulator on Commodore 64, LOL.

 

[Wobblin-Gobblin]

Planets look much better in EDO, so I've switched some months ago and I didn't regret it.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The only solution i see out of this, is to prevent any form of instancing between EDO and Horizons players below the exclusion zone of Horizons planets. Which may be more complicated to implement than it sounds.

Isn't that the only point of doing it in the first place? To "force" more players in one space so the mmo experience is more satisfying?

Without doing that there's zero gain in spending the development work for a merger. Now that consoles are cancelled and horizons has been "grandfathered" there's no need for any effort just to keep features away from people who have not paid. Its working right now

ps. Ever since getting a ps4 copy (and playing it, i was away from home for an extended period a few years ago), i've only logged into solo. Removing the mission board instance sealed it.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Is there a caveat there?

Very few and only in real life. If the recipient is beyond all hope and stating the truth will only cause upset, there's no positive outcome available so its better to say nothing. Eg i have some inlaws who are orthodox religious. Some of them are very intellectual and enjoy a joust on the topic, but some aren't, and you just see there's no possible way they can accept reality. So naturally you stand aside. If the person cant handle the truth?

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

If it delivers a higher quality product in the short-mid term then its the right thing to do. I think where people get rightfully nervous is picturing a position where it happens anyway warts and all and no one cares or does anything about it.... Basically a trust issue in Frontier if you're at all concerned about this.

 

[Old Duck]

Planets look much better in EDO

That's subjective.

 

[Rat Catcher]

So naturally you stand aside. If the person cant handle the truth?

Indeed... That makes much sense.

Now if the same might apply to here, but it cannot as it would appear that one person's 'truth' is another's bone of contention.

ETA: A perfect example being the post directly above my own!

 

[CmdrKafka]

But as you say, performance is a non-negotiable. I absolutely refuse to play any game at the framerates I've seen some people getting. I did that tour of duty as a child playing Flight Simulator on Commodore 64, LOL.

that takes me back… c64 sublogic Flight Simulator “dogfight” game mode, either the frame rate was so slow or the model of the other planes was so bad, I don’t think I ever actually “saw” one of the enemy planes and generally just flew around until they shot me down or I crashed.

 

[Red Rocket]

This happens all the time in many online games, but there's always a risk of driving away players if the changes made are changes they don't want. There's a lot about Odyssey that I don't like besides performance, but whether those things would be enough for me to toss in the towel and uninstall Elite once-for-all, I honestly don't know. I mean, I have to deal with one of the worst UIs ever in X4 Foundations, yet I still get enjoyment out of that game, so I can adapt to certain "downgrades" if the core gameplay is still enticing enough. And then there's lighting, the new planet tech, VR bugs, etc.. But if Horizons is replaced with Oddy Lite, I will at least give it a try. Who knows, maybe I'll end up liking it.



But as you say, performance is a non-negotiable. I absolutely refuse to play any game at the framerates I've seen some people getting. I did that tour of duty as a child playing Flight Simulator on Commodore 64, LOL.

You are talking about Odyssey vs Horizons and going to Odyssey lite.

My dream version of Elite Dangerous is Horizons with Atmospheric Land-able Planets less all the Shooter stuff.

Great performance
Full VR Support
Horizons planet tech with new plant life
Horizons UI
Space Legs, honestly don’t care

 

[WR3ND]

Having religious/political discussions about Odyssey is a bit too meta for me... or something.

What other people like to like or dislike is their business – well, and Frontier's too, if they care for it to be. Something a bit less subjective for me unfortunately is performance.

Anyway, have a good day, guys. A rainy and chill day here today. Maybe I'll make another FF7 "let's-play" for my daughter after school. Not sure yet.

o7

 

[Mr T]

Planets look much better in EDO, so I've switched some months ago and I didn't regret it.

That's subjective.

True, it is subjective. To me they look more realistic, as some of the peaks in Horizons were just insanely high. There are still mountains in Odyssey though and you can get some great views from them. I particularly like the colour changes FD made to the planets, to me it gives them more "character".

 

[Faded Glory]

This happens all the time in many online games, but there's always a risk of driving away players if the changes made are changes they don't want. There's a lot about Odyssey that I don't like besides performance, but whether those things would be enough for me to toss in the towel and uninstall Elite once-for-all, I honestly don't know. I mean, I have to deal with one of the worst UIs ever in X4 Foundations, yet I still get enjoyment out of that game, so I can adapt to certain "downgrades" if the core gameplay is still enticing enough. And then there's lighting, the new planet tech, VR bugs, etc.. But if Horizons is replaced with Oddy Lite, I will at least give it a try. Who knows, maybe I'll end up liking it.

Since I had zero interest in the FPS 'legs' that they went for, I'll admit that I was inclined to dislike lots in Odyssey, particularly the UI, also the lighting. Performance was an issue, but less so now, and since I play in VR, the on foot implementation is to say the least underwhelming...

Do I like it now? I'm Ok with the UI, honestly as much as anything else that's just getting used to the different order and number of button presses, and nowadays I can't say I find it any slower than Horizons. In fact, I went back to Horizons a little while back just to try it and I was a bit lost in the old UI...

Similarly, the lighting rarely bothers me that much now either. I do find that I have to use night vision from time to time when destroying pirates, and some of the stations are a bit on the garish side. One thing I didn't like when I first saw it were the effects of my weapons hitting the enemy, seemed a bit cartoonish, but actually now I don't mind that - compensates for the fact that I can't see what's happening because of the lighting.

As for on foot VR, well, I don't get out of my ship that often. Did for the first few carrier jumps, genuinely they are quite impressive to begin with, but don't necessarily need to see it every time, they'll probably become coffee breaks going forward, and I do jump out to get first footfall on a newly discovered planet sometimes, even scan the odd biological thing.

Do I end up 'liking' it? Well, let's just say I still play it. Off out exploring in my carrier now, and the fact that the game won't have my carrier recognize me as the owner is almost more irritating than all the other stuff.

"Welcome to our carrier CMDR. What can we do for you? Feel free to use our services..." Well, yeah, I will. I paid for them! And I pay you. (Come on FD, the game knows it's me, it knows it's my carrier, all it needs is one more lot of voice acting, and not a lot at that, just a couple of sequences.)

 

[Red Rocket]

When on DW2 I would find a planet each night to spend the night and I always found a interesting spot with some kind of bio/geo stuff.
These spots were always different with outstanding views and I took a picture of each. Horizons has a huge verity of views, with mountains/valleys that are interesting and unique.

I find Odyssey planet pretty at first and the atmospheric lighting fantastic but after a bit I find the planets just boring.
It’s not the colors or lighting, its just the lack of verity. After flying over it’s surface looking for plant life it begins to all look similar.
The planets begin to all look similar and I start missing the Horizons verity of mountains/valleys.

 

[Old Duck]

I find Odyssey planet pretty at first and the atmospheric lighting fantastic but after a bit I find the planets just boring.

I watch Buur's videos, which are some of the best on the Internet, and there's just something "not right" about Odyssey's planets. I mean this in a 100% subjective "my own gut reaction" sort of way. The best way I can describe it is "uncanny valley" except with planets instead of faces...

I should add that this is flying at lower altitudes. At the edge of space and beyond, I've seen some really nice looking Odyssey planets. Of course the irony is that Odyssey's new gameplay is 99% down on planet surfaces (not counting walking around a station or fleet carrier), where you have lots of uncanny valleys but few real valleys (so say the hooners).

 

[Faded Glory]

Going to admit up front I'm not a purist...

But I've taken my FC off to do some exploring. Now, I've been Elite in exploration quite a while now, done short trips every year since I've been playing (2014), never really went far, couldn't take the endless jumping for that long, so probably 6k ly. This trip, with the carrier will be 25k ly, but I'm taking it slowly, now 3.5k ly out and stopping each jump to take one of my exploration ships out and find a few previously unvisited systems to discover, taking a day or two each stop. This will be by far my longest exploration trip, both in distance and in time... Previously I got stir carzy and wanted to shoot something, but right now I feel like I'll be happy just pootling around out in the black for months.

For me, a big plus of having the carrier is the fact that I can choose which of my two exploration ships I feel like flying at any time, they're both close by. Should I find a canyon (haven't yet), I have all my canyon runners (I have 3, a Viper Mk III, an iEagle and an iCourier - all very fast indeed) ready to play. So this is indeed a plus, thanks FD.

Now, to Horizons vs Odyssey. I'm landing mainly on Odyssey planets, and honestly I think they're Ok. Sure, as I said, not found any canyons yet, perhaps I need to be on non-atmospheric bodies? No idea. But what I am landing on seem to be Ok, certainly some variety, most are HMC worlds and terraformable.

Anyway, a couple of pics, and the icy one isn't an ice world, it's an HMC that had a small patch of ice on one pole, found a few like that...

Spoiler

 

[EdzUp]

I do actually enjoy playing ED for me going to get a ship os much more better than dragging a carrier around with ally toys in one box