I think FD needs to take another look at the fundamental "rule set" and reengineer it.

[Iskariot]

I certainly don't need to see "behind the curtain" to know there's a little guy telling everyone the game is fine, this was always the plan all along and don't worry about the wicked witch of the west.

What little guy would that be? Even FD is very clear about the fact that the game is in the middle of development. The way the game is developed was clear to me from the start.

You specifically expressed embarrassment over this thread, so why read or participate in it?

To make it less embarrassing. Just joking.
But it seems weird to me that you would try to exclude me this way.

Personally I think those people see themselves as customers who bought an unfinished product, which is getting advertised as an finished product.
Embarrassing to me is the amount of people who are willing to defend such a product.

I was never surprised by the state the game was in when it was released in december. I always realized that I was buying a core game that needed further development and fleshing out. Nevertheless I had and still have a lot of fun, worth every penny I paid. I am not of the generation that wants everything to be finished yesterday and handed to him today. I have patience.
People who expected more than they got have not researched what they bought. That is always a mistake. I have made such mistakes myself in the past, but not with ED. I knew what I got, because FD was not secretive about it and did not mislead me.

 

[Sanderson]

What little guy would that be? Even FD is very clear about the fact that the game is in the middle of development. The way the game is developed was clear to me from the start.



To make it less embarrassing. Just joking.
But it seems weird to me that you would try to exclude me this way.

That was a metaphorical analogy of the state of the game in reference to "The Wizard of OZ" movie. As in the movie, everything was fine, until people noticed the "magic" was rubbish and the person "behind the curtain" was full of crap. Specifically, in this case, I was referring to David Braben.

Very clear the game is in the middle of development?? Are you serious? Where, anywhere does it clearly say ED is a WIP and in the middle of development on the store page? I seem to have missed the "early access" part of the sales pitch. Please, if you will, link me to that info so I can stop complaining about it.

Clear from the start the way the game is developed? Where? In almost a year, I've never seen or read, prior to release, that ED would be released in a WIP state and that "rolling development" was the "plan". If you would be so kind, please show me that too, so I can quit complaining about that too.

I don't try to exclude anyone that has something, on topic, to add to a thread. However, when all they do is complain about the thread and how it embarasses themn, then I recommend they add me to their ignore list so the don't have to suffer further embarrassment by participating in my threads.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

If there is such a thing as a simple fix mine would be to give me a reason to care about things.

The experiment in Lugh is a great example of people clubbing together to test the background sim - however once it's been resolved, bugs fixed, and so on what real difference will it have made to the game play ? IMO none ... There are thousands of factions and systems but all of them slowly turn into labels and numbers. You don't have an ability to align yourself with anyone permanently so the goings on in systems are meaningless - to me they're there to grind your ratings so that one day you make Elite (in which ever way you do) which is great, but for some like me it's not enough.

I do envy the explorers - their reason for playing is simple : go out and see what FD created and from the various pictures and videos it looks great, but it's not for me - I need a little bit of drama; some action; so the core worlds are where I live, but at the moment I have no pressing need to log in - I simply do not care about anything in the game and that makes me sad.

 

[Titus Balls]

What little guy would that be? Even FD is very clear about the fact that the game is in the middle of development. The way the game is developed was clear to me from the start.

If you could point me to evidence of this without excluding the many times David Braben said in interviews right up until November that the full game would be released in December and that they would be working on the expansions post release?

Many are fully aware that even at 1.0 that wasn't the final release of the game but many did expect a lot of the DDF features to have been included, dynamic missions and all of the career paths to have at least been fleshed out. Sadly very little of this is included and we now continue to get FREE patches of new stuff.

 

[DiAL033]

I was never surprised by the state the game was in when it was released in december. I always realized that I was buying a core game that needed further development and fleshing out. Nevertheless I had and still have a lot of fun, worth every penny I paid. I am not of the generation that wants everything to be finished yesterday and handed to him today. I have patience.
People who expected more than they got have not researched what they bought. That is always a mistake. I have made such mistakes myself in the past, but not with ED. I knew what I got, because FD was not secretive about it and did not mislead me.

Oh really, so where on their store page is noted that this game is WIP, where do they tell the customer that the game is not really finished? Maybe you can point out where to find that non-secretive information.

 

[Sanderson]

The store page says, and I quote:

"Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy.
Start with a small starship and a few credits, and do whatever it takes to get the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

400 Billion Star Systems. Infinite Freedom. Blaze Your Own Trail
In the year 3300, across the vast expanse of an epic, full-scale recreation of our Milky Way, interstellar rivalries flare as galactic superpowers fight proxy wars.

Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin, a hero... Fly alone or with friends, fight for a cause or go it alone; your actions change the galaxy around you in an ever unfolding story."

Then it has the release trailer. Trailer aside, let's look at the pitch, line for line:

"Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy." Ok, partly true. Take control of your own ship, yes, cut-throat galaxy (added after PvP became so prevalent) I don't agree with. Unless you're in a "core" system, you'll rarely see another player and the NPCs can hardly be called cut-throat.

"Start with a small starship and a few credits, and do whatever it takes to get the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite." I'll agree with this, unless you want to be competitive with other players, in which case you'll need to trade your way to hundreds of millions in credits.

"400 Billion Star Systems." Except for those areas blocked for future use, still a lot of systems though.

"Infinite Freedom." Except for the closed areas and provided you have the permits required to enter the more interesting area's.

"Blaze Your Own Trail In the year 3300, across the vast expanse of an epic, full-scale recreation of our Milky Way, interstellar rivalries flare as galactic superpowers fight proxy wars" Partly true. You can "blaze" your own trail, within the current restraints, but, the "flares" and "proxy wars" are broken, have little to no impact on the player (and vice versa).

"Some may know you as an ally; others will call you a pirate, a bounty hunter, a smuggler, an explorer, an assassin, a hero..." True. Some may call you Barney the purple dinosaur too, as there's no way to know in the game what you are or what people "may" call you.

"Fly alone or with friends, fight for a cause or go it alone; your actions change the galaxy around you in an ever unfolding story." This one requires a point by point rebuttal:

"Fly alone or with friends" Mostly alone simply because (1.2) there's no way to reliably fly with friends and when you can you may not see then or they might not see you, and more!

"..fight for a cause or go it alone; your actions change the galaxy around you in an ever unfolding story." No, not really. What cause? Community goals that were added (rather hastily and laughable IMO) to the game two months after release? By the way, your actions will NOT change the galaxy around you, as it's broken, not functioning correctly and when it does be prepared to be 100 maybe thousands of light years away before the "cool down" period is over, Maybe if you spent a couple months working on change in a system you might get the % points to change but, there will not currently be any "change to the galaxy" anyone except spreadsheet miners and MB will know about.

"...in an ever unfolding story." Can't argue this one as no one ever said the "ever unfolding story" would move in any coherent way in any reasonably engaging manner or time frame. I guess adding a "the Emperor is sick" or "Billy Bob want's to build a station from his bar money savings" could be considered an "ever unfolding story" to some. so, I'll concede that point.

IMO, FD could put an Early Access warning at the heading with an "Eventually you'll be able to" but, that probably (or maybe it would) wouldn't sell as many copies as what they have.

The trailer (like those that have followed) does have a strategically placed, hard to notice "Not actual gameplay" disclaimer stamped in a nearly transparent font at the bottom of the video, so, there's that too. Add it all up and, IMO, it's just dishonest marketing, misleading at best and I personally would be embarrassed to resort to such tactics to sell a product that doesn't need it and would have been better off, and probably sold more units, if they had just stuck with honest statements and actual ingame footage. I suppose that's why I'm relatively poor but, if I needed to lie to people to make money, I prefer being poor.

 

[QziQza]

That was a metaphorical analogy of the state of the game in reference to "The Wizard of OZ" movie. As in the movie, everything was fine, until people noticed the "magic" was rubbish and the person "behind the curtain" was full of crap. Specifically, in this case, I was referring to David Braben.

ok this is the point where you either need to modify/ammend the manner of your thread or maybe it needs closing.. there are lines of communications and ways of discussing something, as many have stated, you are not in the know, you have opinions and assumptions and that is it.. now you are just being immature, petty and petulant. all that can be said for sure, is that you are unhappy, as yet you have been unable to be specific as to why, other than its just not right for you and it needs rebuilding, you offered earlier in the thread to provide some specific details to explain your dissatisfaction, what you felt where specfic problems and examples of exactly how you feel they could be resolved. now its just down to name calling, gross assumptions and insinuation. Oh, and we are still no clearer about what your issues are... well, with the game. you even have visions of grandeur, expecting the devs to reply to your thread, and are maybe somewhat paranoid, in that you think they havent replied as they have you on ignore?? on top of that your response to someone disagreeing with you, is suggesting they put you on ignore.

 

[Sanderson]

ok this is the point where you either need to modify/ammend the manner of your thread or maybe it needs closing.. there are lines of communications and ways of discussing something, as many have stated, you are not in the know, you have opinions and assumptions and that is it.. now you are just being immature, petty and petulant.

I disagree and thank you for your opinion. You can always use the "ignore user" function to avoid threads and posts by myself if you feel the need. I do find it concerning that you would comment on your interpretation of a "tone" your hearing in your own head and not comment on the topic of the thread or for that matter FD's and Specifically David's behavior in marketing this game.

You, of course, are welcome to your opinion, and again thank you for it but, I don't agree that a thread should be modified or closed based on what you think it sounds like. Thanks again.

 

[QziQza]

I disagree and thank you for your opinion. You can always use the "ignore user" function to avoid threads and posts by myself if you feel the need. I do find it concerning that you would comment on your interpretation of a "tone" your hearing in your own head and not comment on the topic of the thread or for that matter FD's and Specifically David's behavior in marketing this game.

You, of course, are welcome to your opinion, and again thank you for it but, I don't agree that a thread should be modified or closed based on what you think it sounds like. Thanks again.

for a start that particular comment was referring specifically to your derogatory comment regarding a member of FD, it wasnt an opinion or a 'tone in my head' just an observation. as for putting you on ignore why would i feel the need to do that, i may disagree with you, but there is more than you in this thread, and much of interest. actually, it isnt even a matter of not agreeing with you, how you feel is how you feel.. but you still have yet to provide anything specific. that simple fact alone is a far more likely reason for any lack of response, than the 'im on ignore' thought.

 

[Sanderson]

for a start that particular comment was referring specifically to your derogatory comment regarding a member of FD, it wasnt an opinion or a 'tone in my head' just an observation. as for putting you on ignore why would i feel the need to do that, i may disagree with you, but there is more than you in this thread, and much of interest.

Thanks again and for clarifying what you meant. However, I stand behind any comment I may or may not have made about a member of FD. This particular member of FD sold me and many many others a product based on false claims, unfulfilled promises and still hasn't delivered kickstarter rewards to those that backed his project via KickStarter, to name just a few. So, IMO, the analogy of him being the man behind the curtain, like the wizard in the "wizard of Oz" is a valid one. What part did you find "derogatory"? Some may find the "wizard" in the Wizard of Oz a loveable character or that he has endearing qualities they find adorable. I. however, am not one of them and to be honest, the wizard of oz analogy was the most courteous example I could have used, without being kicked for swear filter violations.

You obviously don't agree, again thanks for your opinion but, that doesn't mean the thread should be modified or closed because you don't like it. I find not participating in threads I don't like, and thereby promoting the views of it, to be the best course of action, for me. I did recommend you use the "ignore user" feature and you have every right to choose not to but, as we seem to have diabolically opposed opinions, I thought I'd try and save you some future grievances.

I am glad you chose not to use it though, especially if you can add an opinion that contributes to the thread topic. Peace out

 

[BlackReign]

I think FD needs to take another look at the fundamental "rule set" and reengineer it. By "rule set" I mean the way the parameters the game is set in and how everything adheres to it.

FD may have had great ideas, on paper, before release but, as they add more to ED to flesh it out it seems to me that more and more isn't fitting so well inside the "rule set".

As David said, when you get the bare minimum in a game just to have a slice of everything, it requires reengineering the game at a latter point. I think ED is at or closely approaching that point as they add more and more.

There's bits and pieces that work and work well. There's bits and pieces that don't work or don't work well at all and then there's just things missing that leaves gaps between the various bits.

At some point, IMO (you're welcome Ian) all the bits and pieces need to coherently fit together and work as a "whole". Right now ED, again IMO, isn't close to meshing together in a smooth coherent way. IMO, it'll require a look outside the box of the current "rule set" with fresh eyes to get it all working together well.

OK, your post is extremely vague, but I think I know where you are coming from:

I think FD is lost. I don't think they know where they really want to take the game. I also think they are over their head in fixing many of the existing issues, like trading. This is why they say very little and do things "behind the scenes" without telling us. This year will be a critical year as players are already leaving, but ther's still plenty of time to make great strides to turn the trend to growth.

The hardcore ED guys (ones that waited years for this release for example) will be around and defend ED vehemently, regardless of reality. But there is not enough of them to keep the game viable in the distant future. FD needs to get it together and do so real soon.

 

[Sanderson]

OK, your post is extremely vague, but I think I know where you are coming from:

I think FD is lost. I don't think they know where they really want to take the game. I also think they are over their head in fixing many of the existing issues, like trading. This is why they say very little and do things "behind the scenes" without telling us. This year will be a critical year as players are already leaving, but ther's still plenty of time to make great strides to turn the trend to growth.

The hardcore ED guys (ones that waited years for this release for example) will be around and defend ED vehemently, regardless of reality. But there is not enough of them to keep the game viable in the distant future. FD needs to get it together and do so real soon.

I agree it is vague. It would have taken several (TLR) pages to detail everything I personally think needs to be reworked and expanded but, glad most seem to get the idea.

It may be that because of the "module" development style (bits and pieces developed independently) has contributed to the overall flow or cohesiveness of the game. Of course that' IMO, but, now that more and more is being added, I would think at some point they need to look at the game as a whole and reengineer it in it's entirety to work together in a mutually rewarding way. Maybe now isn't the right time, as there's supposedly much more to come but, even at this juncture (IMO) it would help ED greatly.

For example, trading works OK (IMO) if this was just a trading game. Combat works OK, although much more is needed (IMO) as does Mining (again, needs more "depth") but, none of it (IMO) works well together. Trading is so much more profitable than any "career" right now that it has skewed the game in it's favor, for lack of a better term. Same goes for combat and mining and exploring, they OK by themselves but, due to trading profits and prices geared for trading, they just don't (IMO) seem to fit together.

Then there's the background simulator, missions and ranks and all that. Some works OK and some doesn't but, none of it (IMO) works together cohesively. If you know what I mean. I struggle to get my points across sometimes but, I plug away at it until the idea comes around

 

[QziQza]

Thanks again and for clarifying what you meant. However, I stand behind any comment I may or may not have made about a member of FD. This particular member of FD sold me and many many others a product based on false claims, unfulfilled promises and still hasn't delivered kickstarter rewards to those that backed his project via KickStarter, to name just a few. So, IMO, the analogy of him being the man behind the curtain, like the wizard in the "wizard of Oz" is a valid one. What part did you find "derogatory"? Some may find the "wizard" in the Wizard of Oz a loveable character or that he has endearing qualities they find adorable. I. however, am not one of them and to be honest, the wizard of oz analogy was the most courteous example I could have used, without being kicked for swear filter violations.

You obviously don't agree, again thanks for your opinion but, that doesn't mean the thread should be modified or closed because you don't like it. I find not participating in threads I don't like, and thereby promoting the views of it, to be the best course of action, for me. I did recommend you use the "ignore user" feature and you have every right to choose not to but, as we seem to have diabolically opposed opinions, I thought I'd try and save you some future grievances.

I am glad you chose not to use it though, especially if you can add an opinion that contributes to the thread topic. Peace out

lol, yeah maybe i wrote that out harsher than i meant, in hindsight a 'dude, did you really just say that, isnt that against....' would have been better. but i'll leave it there, i treat threads the same as i do open conversations.. whats said is said.. well aside from additions and grammer corrections

 

[Sanderson]

lol, yeah maybe i wrote that out harsher than i meant, in hindsight a 'dude, did you really just say that, isnt that against....' would have been better. but i'll leave it there, i treat threads the same as i do open converstations.. whats said is said.. well aside from additions and grammer corrections

Cool. Glad we could reach a mutually respected disagreement. I am glad you didn't go after my grammar and spelling though, we'd be here all day

 

[QziQza]

Cool. Glad we could reach a mutually respected disagreement. I am glad you didn't go after my grammar and spelling though, we'd be here all day

indeed, and isnt that frequently the best outcome? ive always thought the discussion is often more important than the outcome. i appproach these forums like i approach the game, its never about winning or loosing, its just about being involved in something. while it is possible that my words or actions could sometimes have meaning or importance to others, mostly they are of no real consequence, a definative entry in my own journal, and at best a forgotten footnote in someone elses, and thats exactly how i feel this game is, and what sets it apart from everything else.. actually, maybe thats why im happy with the game as is, and the direction it is taking? im not really looking for anything other than the ability to exist in the space they have already provided, so anything else they add is just sugar coating. whether that equates to me having low expectations, although that doesnt sound right, or just down to a particular mindset is anyones guess.