" I want more people to play in open." - Get rid of all those ships then.

Goose4291

Banned
The thing I really dont get about the current block mechanic is that its so bass-ackward.

At present you have to search the database, add them as a friend (?!?), which they have to accept before you can block them.

I really can't see how removing the add friend step from the process would be a bad thing.
 
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The thing I really dont get about the current block mechanic is that its so bass-ackward.

At present you have to search the database, add them as a friend (?!?), which they have to accept before you can block them.

I really can't see how removing the add friend step from the process would be a bad thing.

When you think about the step of blocking someone,
you had a bad experience with that player, right?

So proposing earlier a reputation loss with an in system faction,
how to sweeten the cake with the option to report the CMDR to an NPC
bounty hunter guild, allowing you to post a bounty and having him be pestered
by bh NPCs, while his bounty simply increases in that system's governing faction,too?
;)
 
Very interesting points being made, guys, thank you for engaging.

The OP came about as watching David Braben get ganked not once, not twice, but thrice, put my cringe factor into terminal velocity.

I watch most of the open live streams, and have been fairly restrained in commenting. But I have finally been undone by the cognitive dissonance of FDev using these streams in an attempt to promote open play, whilst perfectly demonstrating why the majority won't engage with it.

Here's a sketch of it:

Hi, welcome to the live stream, today I'm joined by [x], and we'll be in the [y] system, doing [q].

...

Ooh, looks like there's someone on my tail.
...

Ed/[x] gets blown up by FdL.

...

Repeat ad nauseam.
 
I totally agree. Although modus-operandum at the CG station was to fly about inside the station bumping players and/or shooting them up with missiles in disposal Cobras. How can that be a thing at all?

Bumping is always the tricky part to balance out. It's almost impossible for the game to determine who is the bumper and who is the bumped.

Any shooting inside a station can be stopped by insta-zapping anyone with deployed hard points. This can extend outside the station as well, as far as needed.

Anyone spawning in the station they were zapped, should have 30 seconds to leave the station and a minute more leave the system.

If I'm wanted for murder, I want to feel like a wanted murderer. :p
 

Goose4291

Banned
When you think about the step of blocking someone,
you had a bad experience with that player, right?

So proposing earlier a reputation loss with an in system faction,
how to sweeten the cake with the option to report the CMDR to an NPC
bounty hunter guild, allowing you to post a bounty and having him be pestered
by bh NPCs, while his bounty simply increases in that system's governing faction,too?
;)

That would be pretty cool, I'm all for stuff like this. All I was saying is that the current 'block' process makes no sense in its current form, and removing the 'add before you block' step would go a long way to redressing that
 
I also play Naval action, and do you know what caused the kind of thing you've said there?

The teleportation mechanic. Before its implementation having to travel 2hrs plus to get set up in a freeport before embarking on dunking on traders with limited teleportation availability (due to the old cooldowns) meant that unless you were picking at the traders of a enemy bordering your factions area, the whole thing was a lengthy drawn out process (particularly when you were going to be docking at the obvious freeport where they'd be waiting for you with a decent sized squadron).

I've played it before you could freely zoom to your bases. Then again, fleet actions were usually coordinated with other groups and I guess a hint would be dropped at the enemy so all the people would not cruise around for hours in vain.
 
So said David Braben, or words to that effect. (Don't worry chaps, we actually don't need to add the 'O.B.E.' like some sort of 'Peace be unto him'.)

It's quite true, I'm sure, and many people, myself included, would like more people to play in open. In fact, a year ago, I saw a lot more people in open. You would see them at community events, at Shinrarta Dezhra, and so on. You still do see people at those places, but most of them are flying FdL's and Cutters.

Well, I have both of those ships, and if I want to do a CG in peace, I go in a Cutter. I get almost no interdictions at all in a heavily modded Cutter, which is somehow so predictable. But guess what? I don't always want to fly those ships. Elite Dangerous gives this fabulous range of vessels to choose from, and sometimes I like to use a different one.

I can still get away, by High Waking, but the reality is that even in a modded Clipper, where low wake is a viable option, you will be hounded all the way to the station, interdicted repeatedly until within a few mm. And then at the station you will face gankers, because just exploding themselves in an Eagle/equivalent will clear the live wanted status, and being hostile does not prevent docking.


An SDC member said on another thread, quite accurately, that all you need is a basically modded ship, with appropriate sized resistant shields, modded boosters and an SCB(!), to survive most player interdictions. I would agree with that. Although certain ships are more vulnerable than others, which in itself isn't a problem, it shouldn't reach the situation when a trader needs an SCB. I realise that hull hardness on the Lakon T series is going up, also on the Anaconda and Keelback, but quite honestly, with heavily modded weapons on the gankers, most beginner to intermediate players will get destroyed in seconds, regardless of SCB's.

This in itself isn't a problem. Let the gankers gank! (There I said it. Just for the less literate gankers, here it is in capital letters, "LET THE GANKERS GANK!") But don't, for heaven's sake, let them then come back and dock at the station, or be within 10 clicks of it. It's quite simple, really.

If you want people to fly in open, then make it feasible for them to fly the beautiful range of ships you have provided - in open. The current Beta changes make sense to me, but they will not bring people into open, I'm sorry to say.

Here is the reason why, based on my own experience in open, which amounts to very many hours indeed.:

Drop into non-anarchy CG system [med or hi sec] in a Python/Asp/T-9/etc. Interdicted and fired upon by player, low wake, interdicted and fired upon by player, low wake, interdicted and fired upon by player, low wake. And on and on and on and on and zzzzzzz

Now if I lose my ship in those situations, it's because I am flying drunk. But for less experienced players it is a nightmare. And the fact that the same person is repeatedly trying to kill them, or more likely kills them the first or second time, with no real repercussion. Well, there is your problem.

"I want more people to fly in open."

Then sort your game out.

I love this game, I support it in all sorts of ways. But it is really sad at the moment in open, if you are anywhere remotely popular with players (CG's, Founders', Alien ruins, Engineers). Nearly all you see are FdL's and Cutters. That is because so many of the people who enjoy more of the game than just PvP have retreated elsewhere.

Any FDev staff reading this can easily clock my hours in open, how many CG's I've done, how many times I have combat logged [NONE], and how many times I have died at the hands of commanders [quite a few]. And it used to be okay. But now it is not. It is just sad: a playground for gankers at any noteworthy site.

No problem for me, to be honest, because if I want to do a Trade CG in my T-9, I just won't do it in open anymore. I prefer the experience of flying that cool hunk of trading junk than having to high wake from ubiquitous human FdL's every other minute. But clearly it is a problem for you, FDev, because you "want more people to play in open".

Sort your game out. Add a layer of consequence to repeatedly killing people, and your wish may eventually come true. Until then, I have no problem if people want to play in solo (like the original game I played as a child), or in Mobius, which I personally find very bland.

All these beautiful ships, FDev, and practically everybody is flying the same ones.


Apres moi, le deluge, Rodders. ;)

Keep it clean.



I play solo so I won't even have to think one second about all the irritations and frustrations that other players might create for me.
I have been a solo player at heart for decades now and it is very unlikely that anything FD does will ever change this.
I own many games with a multi player component I never use.
 

Goose4291

Banned
I've played it before you could freely zoom to your bases. Then again, fleet actions were usually coordinated with other groups and I guess a hint would be dropped at the enemy so all the people would not cruise around for hours in vain.

I was with a group based down near concepcion, travelling to 'gank' merchant players of the danish/swedish or french persuasion (who we were fighting) was an absolute nightmare due to the travel issues. (2hrs+ to get to the hunting grounds, and if you wanted to operate out of there for an extended period it meant running the freeport gauntlet).

Awesome game though. Wish I had time for it still.
 
That would lead to an instancing nightmare... everyone who has a local player on their block-list would essentially be kicked into an empty instance unless all other players locally have the same player blocked.

There already are multiple instances per system if it's populated.

It's too exploitable too, you could just put any player you want to bypass onto a block list, even though they might be providing 'legitimate' opposition, like powerplay or piracy.
I can already do this by joining PG or Solo, that's not an exploit.
 
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And this is another reason why David isn't going to see more people in open. The game is designed this way. No matter what patch you strap on to fix, this behaviour will stay.

So what are people doing who don't want this gameplay and the attitude that comes along? They stay away. Simple as that.

There are many people still playing in open, i see many traders quite frequently at the same spots in the same system. They are brave in their T6 and Keelbacks instead of the Solo players. As long as they respond to my hails i let them alive, even protecting them from evil NPC's at times.
My passion for mindless griefing.....i dont know.....i'm allowed to because im in an anarchy system, im a pirate bla bla bla
If people would work together......but it seems too complicated they are unable.....because it requires social interaction with other humans :)
 
I was with a group based down near concepcion, travelling to 'gank' merchant players of the danish/swedish or french persuasion (who we were fighting) was an absolute nightmare due to the travel issues. (2hrs+ to get to the hunting grounds, and if you wanted to operate out of there for an extended period it meant running the freeport gauntlet).

Awesome game though. Wish I had time for it still.

Ye, I remember a particularly grand battle against the Danish - I have a Brit account. I figured I'd get most of it with Port Royal being so nicely set in the middle of the map.
 
Why not ask why people don't play in open you might get better result as to how can we get more people to play in open?
I for one am a fairly new player and for me risking 100s of hours of work for no finiacial or social gain seems a pointless exercise
There's no global chat system so I can't talk to folks and these guys running around in FDLs seem to think that interdicting a T9 is going to be fair fight well it's not and until somone can come up with a T9 setup that can kill a FDL in about 20sec it never going to be fair fight so why bother putting 90mil out there for somone to take it from you
 
...
If people would work together......but it seems too complicated they are unable.....because it requires social interaction with other humans :)

I rather think the place is simply too big to organize effective counter action. And by the time people arrived, the action might already have moved on. I mean, why do you think player combat focusses around engineer bases and CGs? That's the places that see regular traffic. Everything else is quite random encounter or you have organized group interaction where people negotiate combat or roleplay their gameplay (which is totally fine).
 
Bumping is always the tricky part to balance out. It's almost impossible for the game to determine who is the bumper and who is the bumped.

Any shooting inside a station can be stopped by insta-zapping anyone with deployed hard points. This can extend outside the station as well, as far as needed.

Anyone spawning in the station they were zapped, should have 30 seconds to leave the station and a minute more leave the system.

If I'm wanted for murder, I want to feel like a wanted murderer. :p

Yes. I could get into a Pirate/Psycho role with enthusiasm if the C&P was there to make it mean something. I've said in some of the many other threads on this subject that this could be excellent gameplay... hounded out of systems by Posses of ships! Potentially awesome.

FD & others talk about balance and making this with risk/mean something but atm ganking etc is entirely without balance or risk.
 
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I used to fly in open quite a lot.
Back in the day i'd cruise around in my Anaconda trading, bounty hunting doing all the fun stuff, and nobody interdicted me, because of course i was in a Anaconda, which back in the day was extremely rare and powerfull. But then more people got anacondas, the FDL was eventually released and then came the engineers, and playing in open just became too much of a risk. I tried changing ships, flying in Clippers, FDLs and even Cobra's, but it all ended the same way; Utter ganking. So i went exploring instead, and that was fun, and i came back, sold my data, and got ganked. I've never been a fan of PvP and i think it's bad how the game forces me to participate in it constantly for just pressing the "open" button.
So of course, now i just press the "solo" button instead, and i have a lot less fun doing so.
 
6 Kylies still to go until I hit Colonia, been in open now for quite a while even before leaving the bubble and had no problems at all. I am a bit concerned about arriving at Jaques but if I time it right there won't be a problem - why mention this? Well open is about as dangerous as reading these forums - only your pride is at risk from becoming overly offended by the actions of others.

That's not to say there is no problem in open, there is. How to stop it? You can't. Even if Frontier put the most draconian of justice systems in place it would not deter a dedicated ganker from getting their kicks, it would just slow them down a little plus it would take all the fun away from piracy etc.

I can only draw on my own feelings but many times when I am back in the bubble I feel as if I am playing a 'casual' mobile game designed to take up my time on the way to work. One that has little risk and rewards me slowly for any progress made and perhaps that's the problem, to many CMDR's seeing the game as a way to relax and just fly their ship. A recent thread I hosted showed that many of us play the game because we get to fly around in space ships - this response was far more popular than any of the actual professions we have in the game leading me to think maybe there are others who also feel like the game is a bit to casual focused? It's a very subjective way to look at the game though and only my personal opinion.

A way to turn this around is to have much deeper game play attached to each of the main professions giving the player far less time just sitting there waiting to arrive at there destination while keeping the game's sheer size apparent. This could take the form of masking your SC signature via a tuning mechanic - countered by something similar for the pirates etc. Repairing damaged systems or at least having a chance to would be a good thing to introduce and of course the no brainer - a way to read Glanet while in flight.

Perhaps as well the fact that CMDR's and the AI are so easy to tell apart needs to change - if all the ships were a full block in the radar would we see anywhere near as many ganking posts?

Just some thoughts on the matter. :)
 
I rather think the place is simply too big to organize effective counter action. And by the time people arrived, the action might already have moved on. I mean, why do you think player combat focusses around engineer bases and CGs? That's the places that see regular traffic. Everything else is quite random encounter or you have organized group interaction where people negotiate combat or roleplay their gameplay (which is totally fine).

Many players travel between the same systems. Like i said, i see them quite everyday and if i decide to kill one....its easy. I wouldn't attack a full wing or even 2 ships to calculate the risk and say no :)
Single players are easy targets, its like hunting....the hunter always looking for the lowest risk and best possible reward.
 
I think somehow they would start to mind if it they had nowhere to spawn/rearm from within 30 minutes journey time when combined with the aforementioned NPC police 'harrassment' slowly chipping away at their ships.

Have you ever played EvE Online? Seriously? :cool:

Just go over there sometime and see how little people care about 'Rep' and Bounties. How easily they work around them. How simple it is to negate them.

It would be the same here as in EvE, UO, insert-MMO-here...

- - - Updated - - -

You Sir, made me LOL in the cinema before seeing Rouge One earlier today.

rouge-one-a-star-wars-story-rouge-one-standing-by-2560879.png
 
6 Kylies still to go until I hit Colonia, been in open now for quite a while even before leaving the bubble and had no problems at all. I am a bit concerned about arriving at Jaques but if I time it right there won't be a problem - why mention this? Well open is about as dangerous as reading these forums - only your pride is at risk from becoming overly offended by the actions of others.

That's not to say there is no problem in open, there is. How to stop it? You can't. Even if Frontier put the most draconian of justice systems in place it would not deter a dedicated ganker from getting their kicks, it would just slow them down a little plus it would take all the fun away from piracy etc.

I can only draw on my own feelings but many times when I am back in the bubble I feel as if I am playing a 'casual' mobile game designed to take up my time on the way to work. One that has little risk and rewards me slowly for any progress made and perhaps that's the problem, to many CMDR's seeing the game as a way to relax and just fly their ship. A recent thread I hosted showed that many of us play the game because we get to fly around in space ships - this response was far more popular than any of the actual professions we have in the game leading me to think maybe there are others who also feel like the game is a bit to casual focused? It's a very subjective way to look at the game though and only my personal opinion.

A way to turn this around is to have much deeper game play attached to each of the main professions giving the player far less time just sitting there waiting to arrive at there destination while keeping the game's sheer size apparent. This could take the form of masking your SC signature via a tuning mechanic - countered by something similar for the pirates etc. Repairing damaged systems or at least having a chance to would be a good thing to introduce and of course the no brainer - a way to read Glanet while in flight.

Perhaps as well the fact that CMDR's and the AI are so easy to tell apart needs to change - if all the ships were a full block in the radar would we see anywhere near as many ganking posts?

Just some thoughts on the matter. :)

I, too, think that it can't be stopped because it's core game design.

And about the "easy to tell apart": Aren't you long around now to know how often this has been proposed and is arguably even worse? Because if you are the wolf, you don't need the hollow square. Because Wolf has instinct and Rotkäppchen won't even see him coming anymore.
 
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