iCourier vs. FAS

[Aris_]

So I just took my icourier out for a spin in a haz res and the first ship i ran into was a deadly fas with frags. I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail...he was turning inside my circle and burning my shields down. I could even boost past him and try and get around him but he was instantly facing me and firing away no matter where I went. I did some damage to him mainly by jousting as i went past to try and get around him, but eventually I BSR'd and went back to base to re-evaluate my setup.

My question is, is the FAS really more agile than a tiny supposedly-nimble ship like the courier? Do I need to go back out and throw 3-4 pips to engines? I feel that the distrib is so poor on the courier that with that much power to engines i'd be limited to running pure kinetics in the hardpoints.

Any thoughts/suggestions from courier veterans? I'm just a bit surprised as I have flown an assortment of craft including the vulture and fas and expected the courier to run circles around the fas.

Combat is semi broken in ED because of gameplay they want to keep you upgrading to bigger ships but they don’t have big differences especially in pitch rates.
If you compare corvette pitch rate 1000 ton ship with courier is 30% difference where supposed to be 300% based on their own data in shipyards.


Fas agility for a 500ton ship is unrealistic but if I could shoot it down with a courier why should I bother to buy it.
There is a specific exploit that you can use in order destroy ships like Fas, coda, python in RES and everybody uses it, try to do the same in PVP you are dead or you make the ship like tank without shield.


If you want to experiment how good pilot you are go to a RES find a single Elite or Deadly Anaconda, Python, Fas shoot him to make him red and following then boost to the edge of the radar and reengage head on if you real good do the same in an enemy wing.

Use only a small fighter e.g. viper courier cobra, and minimal use of shield cells like 1 or 2 .

 

[SushiCW]

Courier doesn't need a buff. Medium and large ships need an agility nerf, especially outside the blue zone. The fact that these larger ships (ESPECIALLY the FAS) are *less* affected by blue zone turning than small/light ships is completely backwards.

 

[GTwannabe]

Courier is fun, but isn't well suited for stripping shields. Not enough power or thermal capacity for laser weapons.

FAS is a beast and can nibble away at powerplants all day. It can also kill FDLs easily by punching them in the face.

 

[lysan]

So I just took my icourier out for a spin in a haz res and the first ship i ran into was a deadly fas with frags. I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail...he was turning inside my circle and burning my shields down. I could even boost past him and try and get around him but he was instantly facing me and firing away no matter where I went. I did some damage to him mainly by jousting as i went past to try and get around him, but eventually I BSR'd and went back to base to re-evaluate my setup.

My question is, is the FAS really more agile than a tiny supposedly-nimble ship like the courier? Do I need to go back out and throw 3-4 pips to engines? I feel that the distrib is so poor on the courier that with that much power to engines i'd be limited to running pure kinetics in the hardpoints.

Any thoughts/suggestions from courier veterans? I'm just a bit surprised as I have flown an assortment of craft including the vulture and fas and expected the courier to run circles around the fas.

We need to understand a few things with the iCourier.

1. Its fast, it comes alive when you fly fast.
2. Use boom and zoom tactics, don't stop by doing fancy maneuvers, its equal to death.
3. PA's or mutli cannons fixed are most effective weapons.

I would like to have one hard point with missiles, however missiles SOCK in ED so that is a NO GO.

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Courier doesn't need a buff. Medium and large ships need an agility nerf, especially outside the blue zone. The fact that these larger ships (ESPECIALLY the FAS) are *less* affected by blue zone turning than small/light ships is completely backwards.

Please no more nerf, what we need are just to balance some of the weapons. LIKE MISSILES!

 

[SCTrojanbulldog]

We need to understand a few things with the iCourier.

1. Its fast, it comes alive when you fly fast.
2. Use boom and zoom tactics, don't stop by doing fancy maneuvers, its equal to death.
3. PA's or mutli cannons fixed are most effective weapons.

I would like to have one hard point with missiles, however missiles SOCK in ED so that is a NO GO.

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Please no more nerf, what we need are just to balance some of the weapons. LIKE MISSILES!

Number 3 is a must if you're hunting bigger game in the courier. You can load two PA's and a Cannon or MC and wreck someone's day. I wouldn't do more than two PA's due to heat.

If you FA toggle, the courier is even more effective with this loadout.

Just stay light and watch your shield strength. And remember, if your jousting / fly by, it's easier to plant those fixed projectiles; hence the recommendation for the cannon compliment.

 

[Maelthor]

Thanks for the replies/discussion everyone.

So judging from what I'm reading, it was unwise to put military hull on my courier due to weight affecting it too much?

As a bit of a tangential discussion, I'd really like to use ships like the courier and the asp scout for roles more suited to their namesake but it honestly seems like they aren't well suited to those tasks either.
Example would be using courier to do shadow missions with light cargo loadout. It just can't compare to an asp explorer or even a cobra mk3. Neither can the asp scout, which seems odd to me.

 

[SCTrojanbulldog]

Thanks for the replies/discussion everyone.

So judging from what I'm reading, it was unwise to put military hull on my courier due to weight affecting it too much?

As a bit of a tangential discussion, I'd really like to use ships like the courier and the asp scout for roles more suited to their namesake but it honestly seems like they aren't well suited to those tasks either.
Example would be using courier to do shadow missions with light cargo loadout. It just can't compare to an asp explorer or even a cobra mk3. Neither can the asp scout, which seems odd to me.

The courier cargo space is garbage. It's jump range under load is carp too. It's a mission runner at best for the step above cobra and below vulture / T-7 / diamond back. I'd smuggle in a vulture over a courier.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fun ship to fly, but that's it. It's kinda like a lower end sports car. Looks nice, drives fun, but the Audi A4 or BMW 3 series next you does the same thing, in some cases does it better, and can fit your wife and kid...

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

If you put heavier PD on Courier, it would do more harm than good, imho.

I adore my iCourier, though my PvP experience is nil. I've got about 100 million credits, a Type-9, a few Clippers, but I just love that little Courier. I run Prismatics and an Imperial Hammer, along with Pulses.

Question on weight, as again I am no combat veteran:
I didn't know the weight was such an issue. Can a layman tell the difference? I've got an 85t Courier and a 100t. I usually fly the heavier one. Should I be flying the lighter one? It's a difference of about 60 MJ of shields (3A vs. 2A). Is cutting the weight worth the loss of the MJ's?

Courier doesn't need a buff. Medium and large ships need an agility nerf, especially outside the blue zone. The fact that these larger ships (ESPECIALLY the FAS) are *less* affected by blue zone turning than small/light ships is completely backwards.

It really does. It doesn't need much, but it shouldn't be worse than the Cobra. It either needs more multipurpose utility, or more focus. Right now, it just doesn't fit well. The distributor is really the big limiting factor. It has trouble sustaining fire and boost. It also slows down way too fast after you boost.

I would like it to be more fighter. It almost feels like a big eagle. If the vulture is the low cost, high performance heavy fighter; I'd like to see the courier be the lightweight equivalent. Just give it a purpose or make it multipurpose.

 

[Aris_]

We need to understand a few things with the iCourier.

........

I would like to have one hard point with missiles, however missiles SOCK in ED so that is a NO GO.

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Please no more nerf, what we need are just to balance some of the weapons. LIKE MISSILES!

If you buff the missiles how are you going to use hit and run tactics? Every time you are going to run you are going to have a missile in your butt.


As long as the heavy ships can turn pitch so quickly only minor stuff can change, ships with high tonnage should not have the ability to turn their front weapons on a capable small fighter that’s why you should use turrets.


I’m willing to bet that missiles will only be buffed by 30-50 % in the next update while they need more than 200% to be usable.

 

[Barmatyr]

Federal assault ship means kind of assault ship, Imperial courier means kind of courier. Thing can be simply explain. Assault mean fast and powerful, it's a strike ship. Courier means postal delivering ship... it's different. If assault ship is nerf they can just simply erase it, it will be the same as Python or transport troup so.
I think assault ship is design for combat and balanced for combat tactic maneuver. If you want destroy combat ship i just advice you to take combat ship. If you're aware of core dynamic design you'll know that they make only combat ship, if you look at Gutamaya ship you'll see huge luxurious ship, there not completely focus on combat so.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

If you put heavier PD on Courier, it would do more harm than good, imho.

I adore my iCourier, though my PvP experience is nil. I've got about 100 million credits, a Type-9, a few Clippers, but I just love that little Courier. I run Prismatics and an Imperial Hammer, along with Pulses.

Question on weight, as again I am no combat veteran:
I didn't know the weight was such an issue. Can a layman tell the difference? I've got an 85t Courier and a 100t. I usually fly the heavier one. Should I be flying the lighter one? It's a difference of about 60 MJ of shields (3A vs. 2A). Is cutting the weight worth the loss of the MJ's?

It really does. It doesn't need much, but it shouldn't be worse than the Cobra. It either needs more multipurpose utility, or more focus. Right now, it just doesn't fit well. The distributor is really the big limiting factor. It has trouble sustaining fire and boost. It also slows down way too fast after you boost.

I would like it to be more fighter. It almost feels like a big eagle. If the vulture is the low cost, high performance heavy fighter; I'd like to see the courier be the lightweight equivalent. Just give it a purpose or make it multipurpose.

Federal assault ship means kind of assault ship, Imperial courier means kind of courier. Thing can be simply explain. Assault mean fast and powerful, like strike vessel. Courier means postal delivering ship... it's different. If assault ship is nerf they can just simply erase it, it will be the same as Python or transport troup so.
I think assault ship is design for combat and balanced for combat tactic maneuver. If you want destroy combat ship i just advice you to take combat ship.

The thing is, Courier is a broad term, and it isn't an actual in game role. There are also much, much better ships for the job for less money. The Courier has no focus in its design.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Federal assault ship means kind of assault ship, Imperial courier means kind of courier. Thing can be simply explain. Assault mean fast and powerful, it's a strike ship. Courier means postal delivering ship... it's different. If assault ship is nerf they can just simply erase it, it will be the same as Python or transport troup so.
I think assault ship is design for combat and balanced for combat tactic maneuver. If you want destroy combat ship i just advice you to take combat ship. If you're aware of core dynamic design you'll know that they make only combat ship, if you look at Gutamaya ship you'll see huge luxurious ship, there not completely focus on combat so.

iCourier is a combat specialist. It can't really do anything else.

Regardless, other combat ships of its size/class are even worse. Viper III, Viper IV, Eagle and iEagle all objectively suck compared to FAS

 

[Cyrgon]

Courier flies a lot like a min-FDL in that it has fantastic lateral and vertical thrusters. If you want to outmaneuver an FAS you have to get it to start a vertical thruster spin, and then use lateral thrusters and a roll to move along it's lateral side, while using vertical thrusters to keep the circle tight. The ship will do a barrel roll to compensate and bring you back into into it's vertical roll arc, as it always rolls vertically and never laterally. If you fly a corkscrew maneuver around it while heading for the rear and keep it rolling you can get right behind it. This can be accomplished in any ship with strong lateral thrusters, and only takes about 10 seconds. From that point its easy to stay behind him.

 

[Troy_McClure]

Courier flies a lot like a min-FDL in that it has fantastic lateral and vertical thrusters. If you want to outmaneuver an FAS you have to get it to start a vertical thruster spin, and then use lateral thrusters and a roll to move along it's lateral side, while using vertical thrusters to keep the circle tight. The ship will do a barrel roll to compensate and bring you back into into it's vertical roll arc, as it always rolls vertically and never laterally. If you fly a corkscrew maneuver around it while heading for the rear and keep it rolling you can get right behind it. This can be accomplished in any ship with strong lateral thrusters, and only takes about 10 seconds. From that point its easy to stay behind him.

Sure sounds good..let's see the vid pls

 

[Cyrgon]

Sure sounds good..let's see the vid pls

Sure. I encounter FAS a lot when I take my courier out for PP, so I'll track the thread and try to remember to record it next time I'm out.

 

[lysan]

If you buff the missiles how are you going to use hit and run tactics? Every time you are going to run you are going to have a missile in your butt.


As long as the heavy ships can turn pitch so quickly only minor stuff can change, ships with high tonnage should not have the ability to turn their front weapons on a capable small fighter that’s why you should use turrets.


I’m willing to bet that missiles will only be buffed by 30-50 % in the next update while they need more than 200% to be usable.

Today I made a video, did some hunting in HAZ, FDS + 2 Eagles fight, they used missiles, you can evade them if you know how.(attached a small snip of the video)

[video=youtube;M070dMDrFPM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M070dMDrFPM&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Itaki]

So I just took my icourier out for a spin in a haz res and the first ship i ran into was a deadly fas with frags. I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail...he was turning inside my circle and burning my shields down. I could even boost past him and try and get around him but he was instantly facing me and firing away no matter where I went. I did some damage to him mainly by jousting as i went past to try and get around him, but eventually I BSR'd and went back to base to re-evaluate my setup.

My question is, is the FAS really more agile than a tiny supposedly-nimble ship like the courier? Do I need to go back out and throw 3-4 pips to engines? I feel that the distrib is so poor on the courier that with that much power to engines i'd be limited to running pure kinetics in the hardpoints.

Any thoughts/suggestions from courier veterans? I'm just a bit surprised as I have flown an assortment of craft including the vulture and fas and expected the courier to run circles around the fas.

The FAS is pretty darned agile. I took out an NPC courier about an hour ago in my FAS (But he was a bit of a distance away flying in an arc left to right. ) FAS turns good, just doesn't stop on a dime. Significantly better maneuvering than the Dropship.

 

[SCTrojanbulldog]

The FAS is pretty darned agile. I took out an NPC courier about an hour ago in my FAS (But he was a bit of a distance away flying in an arc left to right. ) FAS turns good, just doesn't stop on a dime. Significantly better maneuvering than the Dropship.

I actually built my Python specifically with the FAS in mind. Two Medium Burst turrets, two large PAs and a large burst laser.

Basically, I never touch the large burst and just patiently wait for my shots of opportunity with the PAs. The medium turrets track better than large and are very easy on the capacitor.

I just found it amusing that my Python is built around the other ship of topic in this thread.

 

[Aris_]

Today I made a video, did some hunting in HAZ, FDS + 2 Eagles fight, they used missiles, you can evade them if you know how.(attached a small snip of the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M070dMDrFPM&feature=youtu.be

Talking about buffing missiles so better tracking also not only yield and big missiles you have to shoot them down with main guns and suffer the explosion debris , that is a missile buff or we are talking about cosmetic surgery .


From the answers I hear I wonder if the majority played other space sims like freespace or x3 series all of these issues have been solved years before.


Usable missiles means an icourier can thin out multiple targets before close engage them and bigger ship carry more missiles so they have the distance advantage.

 

[StiTch]

The courier cargo space is garbage. It's jump range under load is carp too. It's a mission runner at best for the step above cobra and below vulture / T-7 / diamond back. I'd smuggle in a vulture over a courier.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fun ship to fly, but that's it. It's kinda like a lower end sports car. Looks nice, drives fun, but the Audi A4 or BMW 3 series next you does the same thing, in some cases does it better, and can fit your wife and kid...

Yawn-o-rama. What you mean is you either haven't given it a go properly, or you're incapable of flying a ship that doesn't do the work for you. Vulture/FAS get referred to as "no skill noob ships" in certain corners of the forums because their handling means they don't take any work to get good at battering NPCs in a RES with.

Take a week to use the Courier with some FA OFF manoeuvres. A lot of people that do give it a go say it outflies even the vulture. What it lacks is weapon punch, but can't have everything.

Usable missiles...there's a thought. I've typically used the courier as a power plant wrecker using either two pulses/canon or one fixed beam and two canons, but missiles might mean it can finally be efficient against NPC wings. Strip shields of smaller ships, vapourise the hull, move on.