Idea of Scale

[Skizomeuh]

I've read the many posts, I still have a hard time believing that stars and planets are scaled to the player model. I'm not saying they are not, I'm just saying that it's hard to wrap one's head around if indeed a 25,000 mile diameter planet is really scaled 22 million times bigger than a 6' player model, for example.

That's what's make the Planetary expansion so crucial

What could help is things like a realistic distance from the floor and greeble and recognizable objects that we know the scale of.

For example a captains cabin with normal furniture and a big look outside. Or people walking around outside. Or if containers would look exactly like shipping containers in real life.

That's what's make the Walk expansion so crucial

Just hit the debug cam key, look at you seat compared to the rest of your ship. Turn around your ship to look at the rear entrance of the ship while positioning the camera roughly about 2m above the ground.

 

[Retrograde]

I think it's the lack of human-sized objects that make the scale seem wrong, particularly inside hangars. Most of the stuff there is enormous - the pipes, cables, ventilation fans, pistons - so they give the wrong impression. Adding more human-scale objects would help - ladders, computer consoles, buggies, windows into the station interior...

 

[cherbert]

Yes the player model is the right scale to everything else. That's what everything being scaled correctly relative to everything else means

For me the scale of everything seems fine apart from the actual representation of me in the chair. My arms, legs, thighs etc.. all seem thin. Is this by design? Is it assumed that humans in the year 3301 have different builds because of lack of gravity?

Or do you still insist this is down to incorrect IPD?

 

[Alex Merion-Turner]

For me the scale of everything seems fine apart from the actual representation of me in the chair. My arms, legs, thighs etc.. all seem thin. Is this by design? Is it assumed that humans in the year 3301 have different builds because of lack of gravity?

Or do you still insist this is down to incorrect IPD?

Can you show me where Mike insisted that the characters physical build was anything to do with IPD? Cos I've looked and I can't find anything.

 

[BigBossLucas]

I think we urgently need People inside Hangars, will that happens somewhere in the near future?

 

[Eggplant!]

I think we urgently need People inside Hangars, will that happens somewhere in the near future?

Yeah, I think that would go a long way toward immersion. Even just NPCs hanging out around the landing pads kinda like the trucks on the road.

 

[CmdrAbaddon]

Some other examples of scale:

 

[cherbert]

Can you show me where Mike insisted that the characters physical build was anything to do with IPD? Cos I've looked and I can't find anything.

He said that incorrect perception of scale in the game was down to setting IPD correctly. I was simply asking him if that is the case for the avatar too.

 

[Mike Evans]

He said that incorrect perception of scale in the game was down to setting IPD correctly. I was simply asking him if that is the case for the avatar too.

When did I say that?

 

[cherbert]

When did I say that?

Everything is scaled relative to each other correctly. How you experience the game will alter the perceived scale and correctness. If you want everything to be 100% to scale with real life you need to make sure your eyeballs are exactly the right distance away from your monitor given your particular FOV settings to get the right look.

Should I interpret what you said any other way?

 

[Mike Evans]

Should I interpret what you said any other way?

Everything you just quoted was about sitting the right distance away from your monitor.

 

[cherbert]

Everything you just quoted was about sitting the right distance away from your monitor.

Ok, well thats where I got confused. I don't quite understand why we are discussing monitors in a VR forum. I was asking if scale was correct in the DK2.

My Apologies.

 

[Mike Evans]

Ok, well thats where I got confused. I don't quite understand why we are discussing monitors in a VR forum. I was asking if scale was correct in the DK2.

My Apologies.

Scale is correct full stop. There is no difference between how things are scaled when you view the game in 3D or not. The point I was trying to make is that representing a 3D world on a 2D screen (or a 2D screen for each eye) will have issues of scale if you've not set up your end properly. In the case of a monitor you need FOV and the distance you sit from your monitor set correctly. In VR you need to set your IPD correctly.

 

[cherbert]

Scale is correct full stop. There is no difference between how things are scaled when you view the game in 3D or not.

That is what I assumed by your comments. I was just wanting clarification as to whether the avatar represented in the game is supposed to be normal human size or has a creative decision been made to make the body thinner because of changes in body size in the year 3301 due to people living in low gravity environments.

If the avatar has been designed to have normal human proportions then I have something to benchmark against when trying to achieve proper scale. At the moment my arms and legs look very thin. But despite this my perception of scale in my surroundings seems pretty ok.

 

[Spork]

Min and max fov look identical to me. In Elite and the desk demo. It just hurts my eyes if I go too far from my measured 63.7.

The pilot looks small to me. Like a teenager size body. Weirdly I've found scale to appear too small in almost every architectural demo I've tried. They all look like they're scaled for children. The Titanic demo is the same. I'm skinny and I'd struggle to fit my in those chairs.

Assetto Corsa, pCARS and iRacing all look correct though. Weird.

If the scale of objects in the 3d engine is correct maybe scaling of the render target down to the final displayed image for the rift isn't correct causing everything to be shrunk down? Assetto had an issue with that at one point.

Haven't seen it in the thread, but how tall is the pilot supposed to be? Maybe some think it's more correct because the pilot more closely matches their body size?

 

[Iain M Norman]

Some other examples of scale:
http://teknohippy.net/j/sideyscale2.png

I was looking for where I'd left that.

 

[Iain M Norman]

Min and max fov look identical to me. In Elite and the desk demo. It just hurts my eyes if I go too far from my measured 63.7.

The pilot looks small to me. Like a teenager size body. Weirdly I've found scale to appear too small in almost every architectural demo I've tried. They all look like they're scaled for children. The Titanic demo is the same. I'm skinny and I'd struggle to fit my in those chairs.

Assetto Corsa, pCARS and iRacing all look correct though. Weird.

If the scale of objects in the 3d engine is correct maybe scaling of the render target down to the final displayed image for the rift isn't correct causing everything to be shrunk down? Assetto had an issue with that at one point.

Haven't seen it in the thread, but how tall is the pilot supposed to be? Maybe some think it's more correct because the pilot more closely matches their body size?

Do all those ones you quote as being looking right have adjustable avatar height and the others not? Or is avatar height taken from the DK2 setup in someway. Afraid I don't have one and don't know.

If it's possible to set avatar height in those that are looking right then set it to an average 1.8m and see if that stops them looking right?

Well worth investigating methodically.

 

[Skizomeuh]

In the case of a monitor you need FOV and the distance you sit from your monitor set correctly.

Correct me if I'm wrong: the closer we're from the screen, the wider we have to set the FOV, right?

 

[drkaii]

In VR you need to set your IPD correctly.

Finally, the answer I have been looking for since I joined this game. Thanks Mike!

It is true. Once I got my IPD right the scale "seemed" true finally. Looking across at the copilot seat seemed like looking at a full size, not dimensionally squashed seat finally. Its important to set the eye relief right as well

I'm glad this thread took off. I made two like it but they must have just been at the wrong time as no one noticed. I have learned so much from this thread it's amazing. So many questions I've had for a long time.

I'm also glad to be playing a game full of professionals for once, and not kids. I hate to think about the GTA V forums right now. And finally. Glad to be playing a game where the devs chat to us and answer our questions.

Tis an honour! Mike if you ever get a chance, please check out one of the Deep Space Survey videos on my YouTube channel. Your design is enabling some cool stuff.

A deep, sincere and heartfelt thank you for everything you've done. You've designed and made my dream game. My inner child is freaking out

 

[Ancipital]

Sidewinders are a lot bigger than a truck I would imagine. They're like 18 metres across and 4-5 metres high for example.

..and weirdly, have one of the coolest cockpits in the game.. Lovingly scruffy tarnished metal- they're an unsung masterpiece in VR. I so wish that I could have the Sidey cockpit in my Clipper (the cockpit of which I detest). The Sidey cockpit gives such a sense of solidity and being a "real space" that you could reach out and touch