Idea: Supercruise modification for space-legs.

[Troopi]

Hello to all.
This is an just an idea based on how supercruise works. From a Human's health point of view, acceleration in supercruise was supposed to be 1G or 9,8meters/second. But in-game, supercruise accel feels really slow, specially when leaving orbits, and seems much greater when in deep space. I know this is for game purpose, and it's fine to me, as is with many many players.
But this is when I had the idea - to increase acceleration by pressing space, making it much faster to leave orbit or other high gravity areas. This extra acceleration would consume more fuel and increase G pressure on the pilot, maybe even cause thrusters module damage, or hull integrity damage.
At this moment, only the ship data can be affected, but if, in a next stage of development, Elite Dangerous allows player character's health and attributes even, it would be great to see this G effect applied to the pilot and crew. (black and red outs, faint, health damage, adrenaline boosters needed, etc..)

Cheers

 

[Druner]

That is quite interesting.

I like the idea of needing to tamper with your body chemistry to permit even more extreme manoeuvres.

 

[Troopi]

When pressing space, the screen could shake and a circle appear at the center, forcing the player to try and keep the ship inside. G Force would increase the shake, and if the player lost control, hull and thruster damage would happen. Release the space key would return accel back to 1G. 100% Negative throttle could work as the inverse, reducing the ship's speed and increasing negative G's with the same functionality.

 

[[VR] Goooost]

Hello to all.
This is an just an idea based on how supercruise works. From a Human's health point of view, acceleration in supercruise was supposed to be 1G or 9,8meters/second. But in-game, supercruise accel feels really slow, specially when leaving orbits, and seems much greater when in deep space. I know this is for game purpose, and it's fine to me, as is with many many players.
But this is when I had the idea - to increase acceleration by pressing space, making it much faster to leave orbit or other high gravity areas. This extra acceleration would consume more fuel and increase G pressure on the pilot, maybe even cause thrusters module damage, or hull integrity damage.
At this moment, only the ship data can be affected, but if, in a next stage of development, Elite Dangerous allows player character's health and attributes even, it would be great to see this G effect applied to the pilot and crew. (black and red outs, faint, health damage, adrenaline boosters needed, etc..)

Cheers

I've suggested this before. A supercruise boost would help catch up to ships for interdiction and it wouldn't destroy long distances if it caused overheating and used a huge amount of fuel. It should also be difficult to control.

 

[Gaarp Kobayashi]

Ever wondered why we all wearing weird space suits bolted to our chairs?

Even while docking, turning vast ship like Conda 180 degrees on the rotating pad in less than 5 seconds causes way more than 1G momentum to your body.

It's fairly simple math to calculate my friend.

I've seen how Star Citizen tech demo is trying to implement the G-force negative impact to pilot's body and imho it's just becoming anoying after a while.

You have touched a very interesting topic though. There was this most realistic WRC sim ever "Richard Burns Rally" which was calculating the stress on car's chassis on-the-fly (e.g. during tight turns) and based on it the game was calculating the probability of malfunctioning the various parts of the car.

So, I'd go towards this direction instead. For the G-force to affect the ship's integrity not the pilot itself.

 

[Troopi]

Thank you for reminding it, Goooost. I hope that our contributions help to make Elite Dangerous even better.
Gaarp, I also favor the ship's structural effects, but what is flight simulation without black outs and red outs? Surely some kind of pilot limitation could be added to those highly aggressive "Boost/FA-OFF turn around/ Boost again" maneuvers.

 

[Rick6549]

Actually we already have black/red outs. It most noticeable during glide, try making a sharp turn up or down.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

That opens up a lot of new gameplay adding depth to the simple act of supercruise, I like the idea of more agency with risk and rewards to consider. Controls to balance it, and these would need tweaked in beta, would include head, fuel usage, damage to thrusters, frameshift drive, hull strength and ship integrity. There could also be other consequences of SC-Boosting, such as passengers objecting, if part of a more comprehensive update to NPC crew - their happiness could diminishwith boosts leading to the being more likely to quit. Certain cargo types might not fare well in a ship rattling about under SC-Boosts, such as antiquities, consumer appliances, etc. I remember in FE2 and FFE carrying slaves / live animals in a ship without a cargo bay life support turned those commodities into animal meat was it, or was it fertiliser? But the basic mechanic was inadequately equipped ships killed their live cargo.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Thank you for reminding it, Goooost. I hope that our contributions help to make Elite Dangerous even better.
Gaarp, I also favor the ship's structural effects, but what is flight simulation without black outs and red outs? Surely some kind of pilot limitation could be added to those highly aggressive "Boost/FA-OFF turn around/ Boost again" maneuvers.

I can see the PvP community adopting this idea... It would be another "Drag Effect" fiasco

 

[shreddog]

Actually you are not affected by movement while in FSD at all.
If you were.. you would be squashed the moment you touched the throttle.

 

[Rick6549]

Actually you are not affected by movement while in FSD at all.
If you were.. you would be squashed the moment you touched the throttle.

Becuase you arent moving, supercruise moves space around you.

 

[Troopi]

Becuase you arent moving, supercruise moves space around you.

Still, pushing the space warp around the ship too much could make it break, or become too unstable to handle, no? We can't go too much into real physics, and keep on the sci-fi area, but we can make it more engaging by adding these tweaks. It's a game, after all.

 

[Troopi]

I can see the PvP community adopting this idea... It would be another "Drag Effect" fiasco

I don't think it would. The problem with drag effect is a modification applied from one player to another. The black/red out would be a modification applied by the player to himself. It might not seem so, but that's a huge difference in competition fairness, since everyone would have to take it into consideration when trying to push the ship and the pilot too far. In combat aviation, this is one of the most important aspects of dogfight, since the pilot is done if he faints or has a brain hemorrhagic while trying to dodge an enemy.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

The basic laws of the universe state you get nothing for nothing, ergo in game something that has an advantage to the player needs "balanced" simple redout/blackout wouldn't cut it. Put it this way, if you crash into a star while scooping, you have to wait for the FSD to cool down, point at the escape vector, charge FSD incurring insane amounts of heat and heat related damage across a wide selection of ships systems and if you really suck at getting aligned, the hull as well. Then when aligned and half on fire you slowly crawl out of the gravity well. NB in that gravity well your ship weighs more, so to achieve escape velocity you need more force from the ships drives. (force = mass x acceleration, ergo acceleration = force over mass, etc)

The mechanics of SC boosting are pretty much the same, you are asking the FSD to operate beyond its design envelope, by accelerating you faster, thus you are asking the FSD to generate more force. So the ship damage should be similar to crawling out of a gravity well of a star you crashed into because the drives are doing the same thing, over working themselves. However since the pilot has deliberately chosen to do this for, reasons, there are obviously advantages to be had, those advantages should have additional consequences, like the cargo/crew/passengers ramifications I mentioned earlier.

 

[777Driver]

Actually you are not affected by movement while in FSD at all.
If you were.. you would be squashed the moment you touched the throttle.

Actually that isn't true. In Supercruise the occupants feel forces from acceleration/deceleration along the various axis. The ship is in a bubble (never physically accelerating through space at superluminal speeds.

In normal space g's can exceed 70+ depending on the ship and manoeuvres being carried out, eventually causing a negative g redout or positive g blackout.

Fairly easy to calculate the G's for normal space, in SC you can tell by the way the bobble heads behave.

 

[Troopi]

So the ship damage should be similar to crawling out of a gravity well of a star you crashed into because the drives are doing the same thing, over working themselves. However since the pilot has deliberately chosen to do this for, reasons, there are obviously advantages to be had, those advantages should have additional consequences, like the cargo/crew/passengers ramifications I mentioned earlier.

As a game mechanic, maybe it was too much if the ship immediately started overheating and getting module/hull damage. Thus the idea of a control mini-game, similar to the one used by the FSD interdictor (but more centered on the linear route expected)

 

[Sylow]

Actually that isn't true. In Supercruise the occupants feel forces from acceleration/deceleration along the various axis. The ship is in a bubble (never physically accelerating through space at superluminal speeds.

In normal space g's can exceed 70+ depending on the ship and manoeuvres being carried out, eventually causing a negative g redout or positive g blackout.

Fairly easy to calculate the G's for normal space, in SC you can tell by the way the bobble heads behave.

Stil, the ship and pilot doesn't experience anything like the G-forces you would have to expect at the given acceleration. You can do 180° turn in supercruise in a few seconds, while moving at relativistic speeds. Would the interior of the ship actually experience that, bobble heads being torn off would be the least of your worries.

 

[Troopi]

There could also be other consequences of SC-Boosting, such as passengers objecting, if part of a more comprehensive update to NPC crew - their happiness could diminishwith boosts leading to the being more likely to quit. Certain cargo types might not fare well in a ship rattling about under SC-Boosts, such as antiquities, consumer appliances, etc.

Now this would be funny and awesome! <<proceeds to kill all passengers with 12 G's acceleration>>

 

[777Driver]

Stil, the ship and pilot doesn't experience anything like the G-forces you would have to expect at the given acceleration. You can do 180° turn in supercruise in a few seconds, while moving at relativistic speeds. Would the interior of the ship actually experience that, bobble heads being torn off would be the least of your worries.

I don't think you understood me, whilst in SC the ship still feels the same forces as if it was in normal space.

There is a very good guide to supercruise. I'll try and find it and post a link. Bottom line, the ship is never accelerating or moving at superluminal speeds, so no need to worry about inertial dampeners or any other sci fi idea. In normal space G's can get extreme, even when straight line boosting.

 

[Sylow]

I don't think you understood me, whilst in SC the ship still feels the same forces as if it was in normal space.

I got what you mean. I just wanted to point that out even more: would the ship actually be affected by the speed it moves, things would look very different.