If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Muetdhiver]

The thing with "nerfs" if they are even that is that all it is is a change to a number. The personal narative is no where near a personal narative. Even if they reduced it to once or twice it wouldn't be a part of a personal narative. The hole concept needs to be revised and looked at.

Again it is a case of great idea, dreadful implementation, just like powerplay.

That +1.

Great ideas, poor design and implementation seems to be the norm. Which makes me sad every time.

Damn, it's not like there are loads of open world adventure games doing it right that they could use as models...
The main issue IMO is that they use an MMO grind Template whilst the gameworld is large enough to not need it,
and would be more suited to something like quests/places "gear up as you go" ala Skyrim/Far Cry/Witcher.

It's a bit like if FD is driving in Italy while using a Germany map, and insisting that it's the right one, no matter how
how lost they become and how many ditches they fall in. Quite Tragic TBH.

 

[Stigbob]

That makes sense, no point for them to even have the chance of getting into 'discussions' with players like that.

Personally that's where I see the feedback forums as a good potential for the devs to get constructive feedback on missions/etc in the game as the mods keep things cleaned up, though that'd be a big undertaking, it'd be a lot easier than reading thru all these threads.

Yep, the dev's probably look in dang dis but only for a giggle on their lunchbreaks.

They can't be seen to get into public slapfights with customers and there seem to be very few posters in here who could manage to be civil and avoid it. The easy sensible option is just ignore it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Fdev brought it on themselves.

Oh come off it. There is a world of difference between giving constructive feedback and making childish challenges.

And yet this is the thread that got a response. If you can call it that.

I don't recall Brett commenting on the actual mechanic. Just Brett with an off-topic comment... hmm.. someone should infract him

I’m past caring about this ‘game’. It’s not fun, it’s boring and i dont see any sign of that changing.

For someone who doesn't care, you seem to care a lot

 

[Enderby]

Oh come off it. There is a world of difference between giving constructive feedback and making childish challenges.



I don't recall Brett commenting on the actual mechanic. Just Brett with an off-topic comment... hmm.. someone should infract him



For someone who doesn't care, you seem to care a lot

I did, now I don’t

 

[Zeeman]

I think the design was fine, wasn't it? There's a puzzle to solve. The problem seems to be FDev only made one puzzle you need to do between 18 and 40 times or something. A sperate puzzle from each site (giving clues to another peice of the story later on) would have been a lot better but they're making the game they want to play, not us

Which, in turn, they don't actually play...

Z...

 

[Drelthar]

Just reducing the number doesn't solve the problem.

Just making you travel to identical sites in different places to do the same thing, makes the problem worse essentially, as it just adds travel, it would arguably be more immersive, and be more internally consistent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

To truly solve it, gaining each item requires a separate, unique action for each module you can unlock.

That's never going to happen based on how many unique elements get added to the game.

That, or spread it across several actions currently in the game already, with the guardian sites being just one element of it.

The start of the mission chain essentially.

Get weapon blueprintS from one site, module blueprintS from another, then gather other elements from megaships, missions, crashed ships, crashed thargoids, surface salvage, deep space salvage, scanning specific planetary bodies, destroying secret military convoy and collecting salvage - or pirating contents of said ship(s), hacking scientific installations.

That's a personal narrative.

I... Am dubious anything like that will happen though.

Unfortunately.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Oh come off it. There is a world of difference between giving constructive feedback and making childish challenges.



I don't recall Brett commenting on the actual mechanic. Just Brett with an off-topic comment... hmm.. someone should infract him



For someone who doesn't care, you seem to care a lot

How is it a "childish challenge" - the only childish action I see around here is your namecalling. Other than that, it's entirely reasonable to have the devs play their own game that they expect us to

a) continue to play and

b) continue to fund.

It's all roses on your side though, isn't it,

 

[NeilF]

Just reducing the number doesn't solve the problem.

Just making you travel to identical sites in different places to do the same thing, makes the problem worse essentially, as it just adds travel, it would arguably be more immersive, and be more internally consistent, but it doesn't solve the problem.

To truly solve it, gaining each item requires a separate, unique action for each module you can unlock.

That's never going to happen based on how many unique elements get added to the game.

Really quite sad.

Or put more design/development effort into what you can actually do with the modules/units, instead of just putting a grind sponge mechanic into earning them?

What's more productive? Being able to participate in more varied/fun gameplay mechanics? Or simply spending more and more time improving your ship, to continue doing the same as before?


The Engineers V1 basically started breaking my will to play with its attempt to simply create time sponges to (needlessly) upgrade your ship so you could then go back to what you were then doing (years) before... And not a lot has changed since then unfortunately.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

How is it a "childish challenge" - the only childish action I see around here is your namecalling. Other than that, it's entirely reasonable to have the devs play their own game that they expect us to

a) continue to play and

b) continue to fund.

It's all roses on your side though, isn't it,

Maybe a matter of perspective, but looks childish to me. Its certainly not constructive.

And no, its not all roses on my side, and if you read the other thread on this topic, i actually expressed my opinion of where it is wrong and how it could be changed for the better (in my opinion).

Of course, you might choose to believe that i'm a blind fanboy, and ignore any post where I express an opinion of what I think is wrong or needs changing.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The Engineers V1 basically started breaking my will to play with its attempt to simply create time sponges to (needlessly) upgrade your ship so you could then go back to what you were then doing (years) before... And not a lot has changed since then unfortunately.

I've come to the conclusion i'm not happy with the new system. I have half a dozen new ships to engineer. Under the old system i would have them all maxed to my satisfaction with a tenth of the work the new system will require from me. Basically the min-maxers have multiplied the work engineers will take from me.

Under the old system, most modules would have been done with 3 rolls at G5 (i used a best of 3 system which worked very well most of the time, and if it didn't, a 4th or 5th roll would).

Under the new system, not only do i need to get the mats for more than 3 rolls at G5 (up to 12!), but the mats for G1 to G4. Sure, i can get better overall results, but that's because of the new system itself, and again, its because of the min-maxers.

If they had put the mat traders in with the old system, i think it would have been fine... except it wouldn't have dealt with the issue of the min-maxers, especially the PvP min-maxers who presumably were the main cause of this.

Sometimes I wish the game hadn't been made multiplayer, or at least self-hosted servers. Then a lot of the effort that had gone into some of these changes, such as Crime and Punishment, PvP balance changes, Engineers 2.0, would never have needed to have happened, and FD might be further along implementing other things. Plus then it would be open to modding, so anyone who didn't like the requirements for guardians stuff could lower the costs to their satisfaction. Plus all those arguments about modes would dissapear. For those wanting PvP there could have been PvP servers, where the owners could mod things to their satisfaction.

Oh well, that ship has long sailed.

 

[PeLucheuh]

Or put more desgin/development effort into what you can actually do with the modules/units, instead of just putting a grind sponge mechanic into earning them?

What's more productive? Being able to participate in more varied/fun gameplay mechanics? Or simply spending more and more time improving your ship, to continue doing the same as before?


The Engineers V1 basically started breaking my will to play with its attempt to simply create time sponges to (needlessly) upgrade your ship so you could then go back to what you were then doing (years) before... And not a lot has changed since then unfortunately.

Well said. I 100% agree with you.

 

[Stigbob]

I've come to the conclusion i'm not happy with the new system. I have half a dozen new ships to engineer. Under the old system i would have them all maxed to my satisfaction with a tenth of the work the new system will require from me. Basically the min-maxers have multiplied the work engineers will take from me.

Under the old system, most modules would have been done with 3 rolls at G5 (i used a best of 3 system which worked very well most of the time, and if it didn't, a 4th or 5th roll would).

Under the new system, not only do i need to get the mats for more than 3 rolls at G5 (up to 12!), but the mats for G1 to G4. Sure, i can get better overall results, but that's because of the new system itself, and again, its because of the min-maxers.

If they had put the mat traders in with the old system, i think it would have been fine... except it wouldn't have dealt with the issue of the min-maxers, especially the PvP min-maxers who presumably were the main cause of this.

Sometimes I wish the game hadn't been made multiplayer, or at least self-hosted servers. Then a lot of the effort that had gone into some of these changes, such as Crime and Punishment, PvP balance changes, Engineers 2.0, would never have needed to have happened, and FD might be further along implementing other things. Plus then it would be open to modding, so anyone who didn't like the requirements for guardians stuff could lower the costs to their satisfaction. Plus all those arguments about modes would dissapear. For those wanting PvP there could have been PvP servers, where the owners could mod things to their satisfaction.

Oh well, that ship has long sailed.

The saving grace of the new engineers system is the remote workshops and being able to switch experimentals, overall I prefer it though I agree it would be nice to go in at the top. The main adjustment was the maximum cap, which was needed to stop the crazy grinding.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Maybe a matter of perspective, but looks childish to me. Its certainly not constructive.

And no, its not all roses on my side, and if you read the other thread on this topic, i actually expressed my opinion of where it is wrong and how it could be changed for the better (in my opinion).

Of course, you might choose to believe that i'm a blind fanboy, and ignore any post where I express an opinion of what I think is wrong or needs changing.

What looks childish, the posts or your name calling - I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

I find your posts unconvincing which is why I mostly don't read them.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

How is it a "childish challenge" - the only childish action I see around here is your namecalling. Other than that, it's entirely reasonable to have the devs play their own game that they expect us to

a) continue to play and

b) continue to fund.

There's alot of merit to that Statement.
Since a long time now, it's crystal clear that the Decision makers really really mean Play the Game we want! ...
It's literally them playing the Game, albeit in a rather abstract manner.

To them, we're just ants populating the place they've created. Ants that are expected to drop RL Money as often as possible, additionally we're encouraged to do their job in many different ways.
Be it free QA (bug-reporting), reporting Exploits (as they're not even polling nor automatically analyzing even the most basic Telemetry), giving better Gameplay Options (Suggestions Forum) or participating in "work for us for free and feel honored" competitions (Holo-Billboard design). Filling Galnet with meaningful and useful content they nuked themselves though, so that part is gone.

While all this is often strictly or even dramatically limiting or downright denying potential Gameplay, that's how things are.
Option A is obviously always feasible. But if Option B is justified is entirely up to personal preference. I for example don't reward failure, thus the Store has become a place I don't visit anymore. But I'm very oldschool at that, so that's literally just me.

 

[Jex =TE=]

This makes me smile.

We told you so.

Or maybe we didn't, but this very thing was discussed in PvP circles prior to the change. Repeatedly.

Many salty PvE'er tears were predicted.

You were only happy with a tenth of the work before because the system left you blissfully ignorant of your modules potential.

Now you know what each and every module can do, so it's forcing you to become a min/maxer?

I thought engineering was optional. Or did Farseer put a gun to your head on your last visit?

Those ebil min/maxers! Those awful PvP'ers! Gosh darn it! They ruin everything!

Maybe you just need a break from the game.


It seems to be getting to you.

Most all bad decisions FDev made have been called prior to being made. We called it on Engineers and were 100% correct across all iterations. Now it's so common, nobody needs to call it. MC was an utter failure like was predicted. Now the Guardian sites go directly against the "we don't want to wste your time" nonsense to the point where defenders of the game are now starting to feel what a lot of us have been saying for years.

For many people, the guardians gameplay is in just about every game mechanic in the game.

Repetitive
Easy
Predictable
Boring

 

[Jex =TE=]

There's alot of merit to that Statement.
Since a long time now, it's crystal clear that the Decision makers really really mean Play the Game we want!.
It's literally them playing the Game, albeit in a rather abstract manner.

To them, we're just ants populating the place they've created. Ants that are expected to drop RL Money as often as possible, additionally we're encouraged to do their job in many different ways.
Be it free QA (bug-reporting), reporting Exploits (as they're not even polling nor automatically analyzing even the most basic Telemetry), giving better Gameplay Options (Suggestions Forum) or participating in "work for us for free and feel honored" competitions (Holo-Billboard design). Filling Galnet with meaningful and useful content they nuked themselves though, so that part is gone.

While all this is often strictly or even dramatically limiting or downright denying potential Gameplay, that's how things are.
Option A is obviously always feasible. But if Option B is justified is entirely up to personal preference. I for example don't reward failure, thus the Store has become a place I don't visit anymore. But I'm very oldschool at that, so that's literally just me.

Good post but I should remind you that FDev charged a fiver for bug reporting for the ENG's IIRC? Remember you had to pay for BETA and even then, after paying for it and it was a BETA it stll managed to release as a buggy broken mess.

If FDev were builders each day your house would be crumbling a little more and a lot of people would be fine with that.

 

[playfuldreamer]

It's a trend I've noticed, when things are going their way and they're getting their ego's stroked, they're all over this place like fleas on a dog.

As soon as there are contentious issues they disappear like the mist on a summers morn.

Human nature I suppose, can't say I blame them, but unprofessional imho, learn to take the rough with the smooth.

Can't shut 'em up when there's something to sell, but goodness me if we have concerns, it's like pulling teeth.

 

[Maka Gucci]

Many salty PvE'er tears were predicted.

You were only happy with a tenth of the work before because the system left you blissfully ignorant of your modules potential.

Now you know what each and every module can do, so it's forcing you to become a min/maxer?

I thought engineering was optional. Or did Farseer put a gun to your head on your last visit?

Those ebil min/maxers! Those awful PvP'ers! Gosh darn it! They ruin everything!

Maybe you just need a break from the game.

It seems to be getting to you.

So much accuracy

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Good post but I should remind you that FDev charged a fiver for bug reporting for the ENG's IIRC? Remember you had to pay for BETA and even then, after paying for it and it was a BETA it stll managed to release as a buggy broken mess.

If FDev were builders each day your house would be crumbling a little more and a lot of people would be fine with that.

Uh, good point... I totally forgot that (Backer & LTE Holder, so I never notice).

 

[Boff'in]

I'm just slipping in this,
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ress-bar-Grind-it-just-needs-some-dressing-up