If this game doesnt have the Elite/Frontier magic why not - what does it need?

[DiAL033]

If you could repeat the magic of a game by just copying the elements of the game, then you`d have 10^23 magical breakout, asteroids and pacman clones to play. Sadly reality has it that most of the clones are crap and very few are acceptable at best. Taking that into account it is sad that FD did stick to the old formula so strictly. What could be called an early form of sandbox game in 1984, is a rather restricted kind of gameplay in 2014.

When I started to play the PC version in 86, I thought "Wow, this is neat", but I also thought "and it would be even better if you could ... and ... and ...". You see, although I don`t remember exactly what I wanted back then, I do remember that I still wasn`t completly satisfied. But I knew that you could only do so and so much of complexity in a game back then, so I accepted the state of the game as it was.

When I started playing ED I thought pretty much the same, with the exception that this time I knew that you can do much more in a game nowadays as hw specs have changed drastically. So ED in its release form feels like it could have been better, while Elite felt like the devs really did what was possible or even almost impossible (magic!) with the resources given.

And that is why the magic is gone.

 

[Herik]

It already has it; but more to come with 'Seamless Planet Landings'

 

[louks]

Very correct analysis. Missions of Assassination in FE2 was extraordinary. And as you say "Gave it the feel of a living universe with real people Who Moved around".

I think that's it entirely; it's missing an aspect of humanity that (at least) FE2 and FFE had. At a dock you saw a face; sure that face was awkward and cartoony, but it had eyes and it was kinda unique every time, and it at least FELT like a character. You could communicate with NPC pilots during flight; again, it was selecting from a series of fixed values, but at least it was something, and they would respond accordingly.

As you say with assassination missions; there was a flow and a certainty to it that felt as if it was planned to occur - that someone was "at the wheel", and because it was predictable as you started, you felt that you were going along with something real. It felt as if it was a "planned" universe, as opposed to a "random" one. (USS, I'm looking at you...)

That's what I feel is missing. Random human interaction is limited to a blank text box which is cumbersome when flying. While it is a fine option for "slow" times, it could be augmented with the same fixed values for NPCs if desired, along with the NPC's possibilities for responses...this would speed up and encourage communications among players, and it would create a "parity" with NPCs, which in turn would make them feel more human...

That's all it needs...humanity. (I play in Open, for the record...and I immediately ran away from "populated" space and wander about the Allied/Independent Frontier with hardly a home and worry when I see more than 6 Commanders have stopped in a system over 24 hours, so take my interpretation with a grain of salt.)

 

[MoonDragn]

Having played the original Elite, here are some differences I wish they would fix:

1. Ship upgrade path: Sure to upgrade you can go up to the bigger ships etc. But in Elite there was a story behind that Cobra mk III that you inherited. You lived in that cobra for the majority of your career and you upgraded the heck out of it. Here while it seems like there is a big upgrade path, the options don't seem to be as fun. Upgrading to a new ship sometimes means you are sacrificing something like speed, manuverability etc.

2. Docking Travel time: In the beginning of Elite, it was hard as heck to dock but once you mastered it, you rarely had a problem, and there was always that extra save point to bail you out. Here docking is a painful process and while docking computer helps, here it takes away that necessary module spot that could be used for something else more important. Also just going from one station to another is a long and tedious process involving supercruise, safe exit, blah blah, it wastes so much time.

3. Missions: In Elite it was simple, delivery, kill etc. You flew out to somewhere and you complete the mission. Here you have to search for hours for that elusive USS and then fail to find the right NPC and give up in frustration. In old Elite the frame jump was instantaneous, not this super cruise that still takes several minutes sometimes to get to your destination. Kill/bounty missions are so much more complex here and sometimes involve ambiguous targets, further confusing things.

4. Controls: In old elite the controls were simple, here some of the controls seem to be overly complicated and sometimes a pain in the butt.

5. Special events: I've asked around and people say there are no special events like there were in the original. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but that was part of the fun in the original, to have something totally unexpected happen while you are just cruising along.

6. Pause: Here is the most important one. In Elite, pause was pause. I can go and eat dinner and not worry about coming back to a dead ship or expired mission. Here, any time I go on a break I have to worry about losing my ship if I don't log off or my missions expiring even when I've logged off.

Those are my immediate complaints for now. I might have more later when I play more.

 

[NoP]

Response to the first question is simple and already mentioned here: That was long time ago and expectations have changed.

Someone in another thread has suggested adding variety and I agree. This could could come in many forms:

-visual variety is the most obvious: distinct differences in stations. Perhaps a dark deserted coriolis in a struggling economy. Popup adds blocking your view on approach to a federal super rich station. Even simple differences like spaceport ui variety between fed, empire, alliance and independent.

-variety in equipment and descriptions: A hand crafted beam laser from the legendary master Kamui Gunshin. Only a handful were ever made but with exceptional quality. Reliable Joe's used spaceships special offer: Get a cobra mk.3 with a customized frame ship drive for only 99.999 credits! (No refunds)

-variety in missions: Hunt down a target by actually tracking him through space following leads and scanning ships outside spaceports. Smuggle restricted goods to a federal spaceport for a notorious crime lord. Help a local businessman setup his business on another system then later read about it in the regional news.

-also in system descriptions: Since there are a lot of stations and systems a crowd sourcing system could be used. I could write a few words about the lazy space traffic controllers of Hui Mines...

-personally I'd also like more ways to interact with other people. Sure, you meet other people out there but there isn't that much you can do with them and the in-game communication options are quite horrible. Why no regional comms? Even in aviation pilots can talk to others on the same frequency.

 

[louks]

Well, yes. I agree; I was hoping that it wouldn't feel like Frontier in that way, but it does only in a worse way due to the lack of automation.

Yeah, but in fairness, did you ever get anything out of telling an enemy to 'Surrender or Die' other than 'Ha Ha'? As for 'Help I'm Under Attack', or 'Help my ship has broken down', they may as well not even have been choices for all the good they did.

You have a very valid point about the ridiculousness of those NPC "conversations", but I think the sheer fact you had some agency in the whole thing was enough for me...I felt like that would have been an "easy fix", and games from Bioware and Telltale show how those situations kinda work...many that play them discuss having a fairly strong emotional attachment to the NPCs with which they communicate, even though it's multiple choice.

There has to be some extremely minor advancement possible in the FE2 method that would totally change the way it feels today...the feeling of the player really "playing" and the game playing back...even if it's kinda weird sometimes.

 

[Tommyknocker]

I played the original for about a day due to constantly running into stations it was not fun for me. I picked it up again when frontier came out just to give it a try and for 3 solid months I got very little sleep and had the time of my life. My suggestions for what would make it more like the original is as follows:

1) Missions! .. we need many more (and types), higher paying so as to make trading not the only path to a bigger ship, and have at least one we can do when we enter a base (make an empty bbs never be there to greet the player).

2) Tougher enemies.. make an expert fight like an expert for crying out loud

3) Notoriety .. If I put in the time and effort to make a station friendly (green) then only have it scan me 3/4 of the time, at ally make it 1/2 of the time etc, this would still add a sense of danger but would make it feel like you have been noticed.

edited to add 4) CREW!!.. I spend hours sometime trying to find crew members for my anaconda, and although it was a pita, I got a feeling of accomplishment out of it.. having an anaconda that can be totally run by only one person seems 'wrong" somehow, we need it to be more IMO.

As the original only had few ships, I would like to see a few stepping stone ships added to this iteration of the game (passenger carriers with missions for such) and dedicated job ships (wings maybe) would make the game much more immersive than what we currently have.

 

[Oculus]

A quick short term fix would be inject 10x the amount of Npcs in the instances. This would make areas more lively. Next wings should sort out the multiplayer. Stations have a safety cone zone so you can supercruise/hyperspace but this allows epic battles around other parts of the station (like the trailer).
I would think these would be fairly easy to do. Perhaps the NPC's would lag out your connection?

 

[ToniB]

And with Frontier not being very open and communicative it just is making concerns in the forum far more worrying than they should be. Dont they have a community manager at Frontier? Where is he if they do? Not apparent on the forums thats for sure.

open your eyes buddy...


http://www.miggy.org/games/elite-dangerous/devtracker/ed-dev-posts.rss

 

[MrVibrating]

Utter of a UI.

EVERY FREAKIN' TIME i try to enter or leave one screen for another i'm automatically hitting the F-keys, reflexively. It's been driven into me for 30 years. Reaching for the F-keys does everything - doesn't matter if you hit the wrong one, the one next to it will be the one you're after, no time wasted.

Except here, that no longer works. I'm constantly being rudely jolted out of the game by the totally inconsistent UI. It's like "right, F-keys aren't working - what do i need to press, then?" Once rememebering that the 1 and 4 keys bring up the side-panels, the next intrusion is working out which left and right keys i need to use to move left and right - it's one set for menus, and another for items.

Sometimes you can use the mouse, other places it doesn't work, so again, upon instinctively reaching for the mouse i then have to think "is the mouse useable here, or not? Is there a pointer? Let's wave the mouse around and see if one appears.." and again, this is jarring me out of any immersion in the game.

It's the most ill-considered and mis-matched patchwork quilt of a UI i've ever experienced in a game. FE2 and E1 were SO much more ergonomic, always did exactly what i wanted immediately and without causing any infuriating distractions.

Just flabbergasted FD could mess up so badly and STILL haven't sorted this out. Whoever thought this was useable should be taken out back and shot.


As i write this, there's all kinds of pips and squeaks going off in the background as the game's responding to my keystrokes while i type this message here. I'm returning to Dalton Gateway in LHS 3447 and there's absolutely nothing to do whatsoever while waiting, hence why i'm here complaining about the UI, drinking a scotch and smoking a fat stogie.. I've tried "pausing" the game but obviously that has no effect whatsoever - it's still taking inputs from my keystrokes. All the "pause" "function" does is grey the screen and say "paused", even though it's nothing of the sort. It's just lying, right to my face.

E1 & 2 never had any of these issues...

 

[DarkWalker]

Having played the original Elite, here are some differences I wish they would fix:

1. Ship upgrade path: Sure to upgrade you can go up to the bigger ships etc. But in Elite there was a story behind that Cobra mk III that you inherited. You lived in that cobra for the majority of your career and you upgraded the heck out of it. Here while it seems like there is a big upgrade path, the options don't seem to be as fun. Upgrading to a new ship sometimes means you are sacrificing something like speed, manuverability etc.

2. Docking Travel time: In the beginning of Elite, it was hard as heck to dock but once you mastered it, you rarely had a problem, and there was always that extra save point to bail you out. Here docking is a painful process and while docking computer helps, here it takes away that necessary module spot that could be used for something else more important. Also just going from one station to another is a long and tedious process involving supercruise, safe exit, blah blah, it wastes so much time.

3. Missions: In Elite it was simple, delivery, kill etc. You flew out to somewhere and you complete the mission. Here you have to search for hours for that elusive USS and then fail to find the right NPC and give up in frustration. In old Elite the frame jump was instantaneous, not this super cruise that still takes several minutes sometimes to get to your destination. Kill/bounty missions are so much more complex here and sometimes involve ambiguous targets, further confusing things.

4. Controls: In old elite the controls were simple, here some of the controls seem to be overly complicated and sometimes a pain in the butt.

5. Special events: I've asked around and people say there are no special events like there were in the original. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but that was part of the fun in the original, to have something totally unexpected happen while you are just cruising along.

6. Pause: Here is the most important one. In Elite, pause was pause. I can go and eat dinner and not worry about coming back to a dead ship or expired mission. Here, any time I go on a break I have to worry about losing my ship if I don't log off or my missions expiring even when I've logged off.

Those are my immediate complaints for now. I might have more later when I play more.

Summed nicely a few of my concerns. Due to those and other reasons, right now I find OOLite more fun and engaging than ED (and less of a waste of time).