If you don't have Beta access, and you like to kill NPCs, read this. Read this now.

The way AI scales with combat rank in 2.1 and combat rank of ships you encounter depends on your own combat rank is, quite frankly, the absolute best way to make the games difficulty appropriate for everyone.

Anyone who played World Of Warcraft or a similar MMORPG that incorporates leveling knows how scaling is done traditionally: divide the game world into separate areas with NPCs of different levels. Higher level NPCs don't use better fighting tactics, though, they just have more hit points and buffed damage, but act exactly like their low level brethren, run towards you in exactly the same way, use their spells and attacks in the same way etc. No AI improvements for higher level NPCs whatsoever.

While this works in some way, it's kind of a cheap solution and doesn't really make encounters at higher levels feel interesting or very different to those at lower levels. It also leaves "starter" or mid level regions deserted after some time, when most players have a max level character and advanced to the end-game regions.

I am extremely happy that ED doesn't go this conservative way with its NPCs and instead really gives it's stronger AI not just new and improved lasers, but instead new combat tactics and behaviour.

Since strong and weak NPCs also can be encountered everywhere - depending on your own combat rank - and not just in designated starter or end game areas, it should also not have such an impact on where people play by more or less telling them where the region for their current level is, so people don't just all gather in the same small parts of the galaxy because the game tells them this region is appropriate for their level.

To be honest, I think SJA is doing a lot a improve the way players can interact with NPCs in games and makes it way more interesting. It might feel overpowering in the beginning, but when everything works out as intended and you get matched with an NPC with similar combat ranking, you will see if you actually earned the combat ranking you got through skill or just through farming.

I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords! :D
 
Well I had a little fight in a USS, my stock starter Sidewinder and an Eagle Fed Security verses 2 x Viper III - I think they were novice level. With the help of the Eagle got one Viper, the other ran when its shields were down. I could not keep up in the Sidewinder.

Did not take any damage, but I had the Security Force ship to help, but I would have expected 2 x nice bounties in 2.0 - so it was rather nice to gain 1 x single elevated bounty, and the other one getting away. The Eagle did a better job of keeping up and I hoped the security NPC got him after I left the instance.

So good fun at the low end as well.

Simon
 
Elite shouldn't just be about the combat though, right? I mean having good NPC combat AI is excellent and all that, but that is just one part of the whole experience. How does that fit and mesh with ALL the activities on offer, how is it implemented in the Elite galaxy in relation to location and the specifics of those locations?

That to me is the biggest challenge facing the developers, and it's never been 'right' from the start. Immersion, cohesion of the game world that enables the player to fully click with the game logic and create that believable experience; that is very hit and miss often with those game design choices taking you out of the game world with a big ?!?

Why do anything other than combat (why build a ship for anything other than combat etc)? Be anything you want to be, as long as it is shooting stuff. I need more, it's 2016.
 
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Whilst not finalized, AI in beta is brutal. It is immeasurably more difficult than it was. I'm not saying it's impossible, but if you go in prepared, even in your A rated Combat ship, python or Anaconda you will die, possible to a wing of Cobra sized ships (of any rank above Master).

I think the bit I've bolded is going to be the real sticking point. A lot of players (well, ALL thus far) have levelled up in combat rank against "the old NPC's" but will now face the new ones at a rank appropriate to their own when the reality is that their REAL ability is now matched to a much lower ranking NPC. I wonder if it might be possible to request re-assessment of your combat rank to match the new AI.
 
I think the bit I've bolded is going to be the real sticking point. A lot of players (well, ALL thus far) have levelled up in combat rank against "the old NPC's" but will now face the new ones at a rank appropriate to their own when the reality is that their REAL ability is now matched to a much lower ranking NPC. I wonder if it might be possible to request re-assessment of your combat rank to match the new AI.

Obilivion (compared to Morrowind) had enemies that were ALWAYS matched to your level. It got pretty boring due to the lack of variation it provided, mods were created to fix the problem, and the world rejoiced. I hope they know of these kind of examples and are building their game with variation in mind, we need more variety, not less!
 
I think the bit I've bolded is going to be the real sticking point. A lot of players (well, ALL thus far) have levelled up in combat rank against "the old NPC's" but will now face the new ones at a rank appropriate to their own when the reality is that their REAL ability is now matched to a much lower ranking NPC. I wonder if it might be possible to request re-assessment of your combat rank to match the new AI.

I'm going to reset my save for 2.1. The whole game is so different that it deserves it.
 
I'm really looking forward to the improved AI, and the modifications we'll be able to make to our ships.

I also have been considering wiping my save.
 
How does this rank appropriate thing work for traders??
If you are an Elite ranked Trader are you constantly interdicted by Elite ranked AI?? (as in a rank appropriate to their own).
I cannot believe FD would implement that!
 
How does this rank appropriate thing work for traders??
If you are an Elite ranked Trader are you constantly interdicted by Elite ranked AI?? (as in a rank appropriate to their own).
I cannot believe FD would implement that!

If your combat rank is not Elite, then no.
 
How does this rank appropriate thing work for traders??
If you are an Elite ranked Trader are you constantly interdicted by Elite ranked AI?? (as in a rank appropriate to their own).
I cannot believe FD would implement that!

It's just throwing NPC's into combat with you based on your combat rank, not your trading one, so if you're an Elite trader and a mostly harmless combat you'll get noob NPC's.

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I suspect we'll see quite a few people doing that - mostly the ones who got to higher ranks by RES farming and don't really have a lot of experience fighting skilled opponents.

That's actually a good thing too, coz till now the NPC ranks really meant nothing. Now it's something you're going to have to start looking at. "Oh it's only a cobra... oh wait, he's elite..."
 
That's actually a good thing too, coz till now the NPC ranks really meant nothing. Now it's something you're going to have to start looking at. "Oh it's only a cobra... oh wait, he's elite..."

Indeed...it'll also mean a lot less people participating in Power Play, because of the increased combat activity it implies.
 
2) Players will improve their ships dramatically with the engineers. See what Kornelius Briedis did on his Vulture, turning it in an almost perfect beast.

Indeed. But that will take month of work in the current implementation of the engineers. Getting the perfect ship with everything available with one engineer
for the price of one ton of fish is quite different than to have to level up rep with 10-15 engineers and collect materials for hours to play the roulette.
 
Yes, the AI has improved. Things should not be as bad as it seems though.

1) The "hit and run" galore won't make it to the live build.

2) Players will improve their ships dramatically with the engineers. See what Kornelius Briedis did on his Vulture, turning it in an almost perfect beast.

3) The AI improved but it's still just an AI : in a few weeks, we'll have a lot of counters to their tricks which won't evolve.

Don't lose your faith, they will bite the dust, they always do.

Yeah, but did you see how many rolls of the dice it took..your average player won't have time/patience complete that level of modification..To put materials gathering into context, I abandoned my quest for upgraded m/cs (15 hrs spread over a few weeks) after my search for Antimony proved fruitless..even if I had found 4, that would have given me 30% additional damage for 5 minutes (shift,No1 key x ten)

Cost/Benefit analysis =         off..ofc there are hardcore players here who spend more time with ED than they do IRL - they are the ones who come to the forums telling people to 'git gud'..yeah with 5hrs a day we all would be!

NB - Is 5hrs conservative for you?..oh dear! You have approx. 650,000 hrs (with a bit of luck!) in total, to attempt to do something meaningful with your lives! How long do you have remaining? [SUB] [/SUB]
 
Hm.
I'm not sure what I should think about that.
I don't have Beta access so can not see it myself.

I'm in for a better AI challenge. I can sit in CZs for hours no problemo (actual 3127 kills in CZs). Money outcome? I'm not doing it for money primary but it's okayie somewhat.
Right now I'm coming from a session in a CNB. One hour (or one and a half) netted me 2,5 mille (no KWS installed). It's okay somewhat.
BUT. I'm actual at rank Deadly, I was 29% before now I'm 31%. I've killed nearly exclusive dangerous and above ships (besides some low rank wing members in these triple wings).

But if AI is now fleeing/harder to kill in 2.1 as described by dozends, hows progression then?? 1% in 10 hours gaming??
I can't take on the lower ranked ones (I can but that would not get me more progression) and the high ranked ones are extremly difficult to kill (I've heard of 15min for some single fight?!) ??

Again, I don't have anything against difficult fights - oh contrary I want them!
But to any defenders of these new behavior: You are at elite rank already having some billions in your pocket right ? and wanting only some - really needed I give you that - challenges this game is lacking since beginning?

What do you think Newcomers and Not-Horizon Owners think when they can't compete anymore and progression (in the way of ranks) isn't archiveable anymore in reasonable time?!

Better/harder AI yes, but please consider increased progression/money then!!
 
This is a bit of an exaggeration. The AI is **little** tougher, but primarily, they have better stats. Once you upgrade your ship fully, it's basically the same difficulty level as 2.0, but the AI are slightly less suicidal and negligent. It's still very possible to fly an eagle vs an Anaconda and never even take one hit.

I would not go so far as to say that the 2.1 AI is even 50% as challenging or aggressive as a human opponent, for instance. But it's definitely a step in the right direction.
 
i have flown non-engineered ships in beta CZ/high RES/ Haz res. you need a dedicated combat ship (no longer a quick run in a high res in a multi-purpose/trading python). you want a fast combat ship. HRP cobra MK IIII. DBS. it is very doable than. if you pick your targets.

Better/harder AI yes, but please consider increased progression/money then!!

well, dangerous small ships are totally doable, and will progress your rank as much as a dangerous anaconda.
 
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