If you're having problems with ship NPCs, what aspect is your main issue?

[Tikigod]

So who is having the issue of the AI not shooting you?
I've seen this behaviour a few times now.

Not exactly.

I did run into a Imperial Clipper a few hours ago that was running nothing but Frag cannons and the AI didn't seem to understand its effective range though. It spent 80% of the fight like usual flying about in circles, boosting by me when I closed in and reversing away, all the while just firing pretty particles in my face from 1.5-2km away that did nothing to my ship.

At first I thought it was just spamming chaff for some reason as soon as the fight started, then I noticed my gimballed weapons weren't losing tracking. Checked out its loadout and saw it was using frags.

 

[spoilers1]

AI will always be too easy unless it is on par with an experienced PvPer.

 

[Cmdr Irenicus]

Too many interdictions mostly and the NPCs ability to take my 6a or even 7a shields down in less than 30 seconds

 

[Whiterose]

My issue is that I got interdicted 14 times last night, that in itself is not a problem, the issue is that they were all 100% Elite in full combat ships with "new weapons" the majority were heat attack. I am only Master in combat, I don't mind the odd Elite combat fighter, but every time?

 

[Jilchath]

Toilets require electricity to flush where you are at?

Water pumps require electricity mate, where'd you go to school

 

[Hajile]

Water pumps require electricity mate, where'd you go to school

Gravity and water pressure is what we use in the states... have been without power for days (hurricane) and never lost my ability to flush a toilet... you Aussies might be stacking life against you if you need power to flush a toilet!

 

[Soliluna]

The AI as a whole. Since the game's launch, they've been buffed time and again based on the opinions of those outspoken about the lack of challenge they present on the forum. The problem is, that's the big part that is driving new players away and preventing players from investing time into the product. The game LAUNCHED with people who thought the AI was too difficult. Now we sit here a year and a half later with AI on a nearly player-skill level with hardcore players still saying it's not challenging enough and those people who thought it was challenging in the first place nowhere to be found because they've been scared off.

My problem with the AI is that we keep driving good potential players away from the game by changing them all the damn time and continuously making them harder to kill. This game needs players to survive, you know.

"Nearly player" skill level. Come on, if people are having this much difficulty it's clear they have surpassed that.

If you meant "nearly best player" skill level - well that's a far cry from anything even remotely resembling true.

 

[Eymerich]

- 2 cobra devoured shields ( 7c bi weave) of my corvette.

- Ai still cheat: engaged a Federal Corvette in an anssassin mission, I have counted 8 - i repeat: eight - times Ai reloaded shield.

Unfortuntlay it has only 1 shield cell...

 

[CMDR Corlas]

If I'm in a Vulture, and the NPC is in an eagle or a Viper MkIV or even a Cobra III or IV, the Vulture can outmaneuver both ships. Being "A" fitted, even more so.
But, I've seen Eagles, Vipers, Pythons, and Anaconda's all doing a really good job of almost dancing around me...even a sidewinder...a        *ng sidewinder!!! Really?!? And I'm in an "A" fitted Vulture?!?
Is it AI skill?
Nope...its a cheat. An AI cheat that gives them abilities to be better even though they have no reason to be and the equipment they have can't do the things they're doing.

Nothing you've cited is "cheating". I've danced around AI Vultures in my Anaconda, or Python, or Viper IV, it all depends on how it's being flown, and how your opponent flies.

I have seen the exact things you have, and it is not cheating. It is something you can do too.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I voted "other".

The new NPCs are getting highly annoying. 4 interdictions by Elite or Deadly NPCs within less than an hour. It's simply not fun having to high wake out all the time just to do what I want to do.
I can't fight against those NPCs - Clipper, FAS, DBS - and I can't outrun them.

The new NPCs basically force me to fly fast combat only ships. I don't want to abandon my DBX. I hoped I could mod it to be somewhat usable, but against those Elite NPCs it has no chance even with rank3 dirty drive thrusters.

It doesn't help that I have to carry cargo for some mods with me all the time because there is no way to get those commodities beside mission reward that is very rare (it should probably be very common, but the loot/RNG tables of 2.1 are completely fubared.

2.1 made a lot of fun ships completely useless for me.

And then there is the boring "face tanking" AI …

 

[frostypaw]

The AI themselves have been fine - my NPC problem is just down to what's chosen to interdict/attack me and their reasons given for it. The rank balance is very high (centres on dangerous despite me being novice in combat) and they claim they're interdicting me for that "juicy haul" they know I've got or "that's the guy I'm looking for" when I'm not on any kind of mission or PP or in a trader build or anything.

If they said "You'll do, come here" or something expressing that it was just a random pull I'd be less "wut?"

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I voted "other".

The new NPCs are getting highly annoying. 4 interdictions by Elite or Deadly NPCs within less than an hour. It's simply not fun having to high wake out all the time just to do what I want to do.
I can't fight against those NPCs - Clipper, FAS, DBS - and I can't outrun them.

The new NPCs basically force me to fly fast combat only ships. I don't want to abandon my DBX. I hoped I could mod it to be somewhat usable, but against those Elite NPCs it has no chance even with rank3 dirty drive thrusters.

It doesn't help that I have to carry cargo for some mods with me all the time because there is no way to get those commodities beside mission reward that is very rare (it should probably be very common, but the loot/RNG tables of 2.1 are completely fubared.

2.1 made a lot of fun ships completely useless for me.

And then there is the boring "face tanking" AI …

I agree the AI facetanking is very boring, but regarding the interdictions, you're bringing that on yourself with the cargo. If you can't use it now, just sell it. You'll get more later. Why intentionally make your gametime less fun now, just to maybe ignore a little mission hunting (or trading with a player) later?

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The AI themselves have been fine - my NPC problem is just down to what's chosen to interdict/attack me and their reasons given for it. The rank balance is very high (centres on dangerous despite me being novice in combat) and they claim they're interdicting me for that "juicy haul" they know I've got or "that's the guy I'm looking for" when I'm not on any kind of mission or PP or in a trader build or anything.

If they said "You'll do, come here" or something expressing that it was just a random pull I'd be less "wut?"

I like to spin it as them having spotter NPC's, who relayed my jump destination and told exaggerated tales of my couple tons of carpets, or whatever I'm hauling.

 

[frostypaw]

you're bringing that on yourself with the cargo

NPCs shouldn't be able to cargo scan you from SC though.

Pull rate should be NO HIGHER if you're not in a trader/high cargo build and not on a mission - they couldn't possibly know the difference or have any reason to single you out. There's simply no logic behind it within the functionality theoretically available to players/NPCs

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…, but regarding the interdictions, you're bringing that on yourself with the cargo. If you can't use it now, just sell it. You'll get more later. Why intentionally make your gametime less fun now, just to maybe ignore a little mission hunting (or trading with a player) later?
…

You are right, without the cargo it would be better. The problem is, that getting that cargo wasn't easy and took quite some time - not a little mission hunting - and I need it for tow mods I want, but I can't make those mods because that material that is needed and should be common is ultra rare…

Guess I will just give up with gaining reputation with engineers by modding and just take the easy, boring way. What a wasted opportunity…

 

[Jypson]

There's a lot of debate on the difficulty of the AI, but I don't see debate on what combat should be in Elite, and I think that discussion should set the tone for the difficulty discussion.

Should PvE combat be rare and meaningful, like they've described PvP? Should PvE combat be a relatively constant interaction? Should you expect to survive one fight, two, three, or 10 before making it back to a station? Should non-combat ships require escort? What would that mean for people you can't / won't wing-up?

There's an enormous gap between a mining Python and Combat Python. The pilot of each ship will feel quite differently about how fair the AI is.

What should PvE combat mean in Elite?

 

[frostypaw]

What should PvE combat mean in Elite?

Good question

Sometimes I like to watch how life is as an NPC - watch them docking and flying between stations and around the system, mining in rings away from Res's - mostly they go about their business unmolested though you're never alone in rings anymore which is a bit odd. Should happen sometimes.

I'm not going to argue for one second there shouldn't be interdictions and drama, but the rate has to be believable - if even having a cargo hold gets you hassled to hell and back then trading would be impossible for NPCs let alone us.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

There's a lot of debate on the difficulty of the AI, but I don't see debate on what combat should be in Elite, and I think that discussion should set the tone for the difficulty discussion.

Should PvE combat be rare and meaningful, like they've described PvP? Should PvE combat be a relatively constant interaction? Should you expect to survive one fight, two, three, or 10 before making it back to a station? Should non-combat ships require escort? What would that mean for people you can't / won't wing-up?

There's an enormous gap between a mining Python and Combat Python. The pilot of each ship will feel quite differently about how fair the AI is.

What should PvE combat mean in Elite?

I think this is the important question that needs to be addressed. It's basically the foundation that all these other arguments are built on, and until we can come to a common understanding of that foundation, higher level discussion is pointless.

I'd rep if I wasn't on my cell.

 

[PavelKCZ]

AI is OK, but interdictions are far too frequent during normal trading. I can run without any problem, but 4x interdiction during a short trade loop is pretty annoying.

 

[Outlawstar]

I chose Other,

Imo There's a big divide between new to intermediate players and hardcore players. I feel that they should extend the bubble and designating the new area as a High Level High Reward patch of space anyone willing to go there would know what they are getting themselves into. Like this we can please the hard core crowed while allowing for new players to naturally go through their own learning curve and not making the game so hard as to discourage a new players from wanting to play, some whom barely know how to dock at a station or understand how to use flight assist off as a toggle for faster turning ect. all these things that took Vet players a while to learn at first. Then Often we forget about some of our older crowed of players whose reflexes are simply not there thus making the game they want to enjoy a burden do to age or w.e the case may be. These individuals should be able to enjoy this beautiful game as well.

I'm simply trying to say that I welcome the harder AI and Love it but I cannot go by what I like but rather the future of a game that I want to play for YEARS to come and for that we will need players wanting to try it and being able to learn and not lose their 5 and 8 hours of work so easily there has to be some sort of accomplishment present and Hardcore players are not in the wrong because they too need to feel accomplished along with that thrill of Danger that fight that one mistake can cost them millions but that victory can yield them Heavy Rewards and the sense of fulfillment rather than beating anything without their shields even going down. I would think that this would motivate others to want to get to that level of game-play if they so choose but not forced for there are so many stars/systems to blaze our own trails at our own pace so lets simply expand the bubble. Just my own suggestion [big grin]

 

[Laste]

How???
What? How?

Don't Asps only have class 2 weapons?
Do you just run no shields?

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Btw, the only people it drives off is grumpy old players that weren't very good at combat in the first place. I've never seen a new player turned off by it. And I know 3 new players I've brought to the game personally.

You seem to forget the grumpy old players are the one's with the money who originally bankrolled this. The teenagers are not.