Ignored Beta feedback; include this to the next patch

LN

LN
To me it is not normal people get angry because they don't get the attention they are desperately crying for.
That's what irritates me.

Nobody told anybody they should write a complete essay about what they believe is wrong with the game. That said I applaud the effort taken for it.
But a lot of people did say after reading that "essay", don't expect things to suddenly change. Now we are here, and guess what?

Now is the main question: Who ignored what?
 
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Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
sleepy_sloth said:
I feel this is a communication issue again. If you would just tell people what to expect beforehand maybe they wouldn't get angry. It's really irritating to me.
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I have to disagree. We were active in the original Beta UI thread, acknowledging the feedback and letting the OPs know it was passed on. We never once have made promises that we would immediately address some concerns on launch, only that we were looking into it. Our comms team has been super active on the forums, social media, and livestreams from announce to launch, and we always try to manage expectations by not over-committing to things unless we can give more information on fixes and improvements.

We cannot give you more information than what we currently have; the team need time delve into feedback, make improvements, and roll out those improvements. Rest assured that they are doing so.
 

sleepy_sloth

S
Bo Marit said:
I have to disagree. We were active in the original Beta UI thread, acknowledging the feedback and letting the OPs know it was passed on. We never once have made promises that we would immediately address some concerns on launch, only that we were looking into it. Our comms team has been super active on the forums, social media, and livestreams from announce to launch, and we always try to manage expectations by not over-committing to things unless we can give more information on fixes and improvements.

We cannot give you more information than what we currently have; the team need time delve into feedback, make improvements, and roll out those improvements. Rest assured that they are doing so.
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All I wish for would be a "we are aware of X,Y and Z" thread. But you are the expert in communication, so you know best.
 

Agathorn

A
Bo Marit said:
We have not deleted the Beta forum, it's archived. I have found your post along with the new ones and it'll be passed on to the relevant teams - it was previously as well.

@Agathorn As I mentioned in the other thread as well, we never assume one person's feedback is the same as someone else's, so just because I asked for more concrete information doesn't mean your specific feedback was ignored. I'm just trying to get the full picture from different people. I'm sure you can understand that.
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Yep I can totally understand that.
 

DoomGloom

D
Bo Marit said:
I have to disagree. We were active in the original Beta UI thread, acknowledging the feedback and letting the OPs know it was passed on. We never once have made promises that we would immediately address some concerns on launch, only that we were looking into it. Our comms team has been super active on the forums, social media, and livestreams from announce to launch, and we always try to manage expectations by not over-committing to things unless we can give more information on fixes and improvements.

We cannot give you more information than what we currently have; the team need time delve into feedback, make improvements, and roll out those improvements. Rest assured that they are doing so.
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It would help if a road map was published so we know what EXACTLY to expect and a time frame of when to expect it.
 

NomisCode

N
Unrated said:
Screaming at people will not help, You should try to understand that making change like that take more than 1 month... They had to choose to fix some problem for the early build and fix more on the long term.
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What change? Bro, it's copy-paste work. They already did good job in staff tab, just copy-paste it to the animal tab. And if they need more than month to do this, something is wrong. I know that they did other things, but as I said, this copy-paste is easiest, except of correcting missspels in names/texts etc.

PS: Also I don't know what the devs prioritised, because there is a lot of people complaining about crashing game 4x per hour and other gamebreaking stuff. I do not experience this, game crashed only once in 20 hours.
 

Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
sleepy_sloth said:
All I wish for would be a "we are aware of X,Y and Z" thread. But you are the expert in communication, so you know best.
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The forum flags Dev posts, so you can see exactly which threads we have replied to/are aware of and what we are tackling. Basically, we are aware of everything, because the whole team reads the forums and flags issues, and we have a dedicated QA and Customer Support team who are working round the clock via the Issue Tracker.

DoomGloom said:
It would help if a road map was published so we know what EXACTLY to expect and a time frame of when to expect it.
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We do not publish roadmaps. We launched yesterday, and we are now working on the next couple of post-launch updates to tackle fixes and feedback.
 

JamieCA

J
Bo Marit said:
The forum flags Dev posts, so you can see exactly which threads we have replied to/are aware of and what we are tackling. Basically, we are aware of everything, because the whole team reads the forums and flags issues, and we have a dedicated QA and Customer Support team who are working round the clock via the Issue Tracker.



We do not publish roadmaps. We launched yesterday, and we are now working on the next couple of post-launch updates to tackle fixes and feedback.
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Can you please have someone at least acknowledge that the social interactions are not as promised? In the beta feedback forum it took almost until the end of the beta to get any response to concerns about social behaviors (poor communication) and we were told they had simply been turned off for the beta and would be there for the release but as many posts have observed this has not proven to be the case. Just ignoring major issues for extended periods of time does not help people be patient when the game they paid a lot of money for is not what is was promised to be. If concerns were addressed quicker, even if it's just "we are sorry this has been delayed/isn't working, we are fixing it, we estimate a fix will arrive in X days/weeks/months". Major issues are being ignored but the missing letter D got a response.
 

Cyberpunk

C
I don't know what I expected after the failure that was JWE's early days. Bring back the era where developers released games in a working state instead of resorting to 'we'll fix it post launch!'. In the last 5 hours I've crashed three times, multiple buttons refuse to work, my keepers have let animals starve, animals have glitched through fences and been boxed for no reason and a plethora of other issues. My only regret is that because I played the beta, I went over the two hour mark and now can't get a refund. Definitely the last time I buy a game from Frontier Developments. Just some honest feedback.
 
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Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
JamieCA said:
Can you please have someone at least acknowledge that the social interactions are not as promised? In the beta feedback forum it took almost until the end of the beta to get any response to concerns about social behaviors (poor communication) and we were told they had simply been turned off for the beta and would be there for the release but as many posts have observed this has not proven to be the case. Just ignoring major issues for extended periods of time does not help people be patient when the game they paid a lot of money for is not what is was promised to be. If concerns were addressed quicker, even if it's just "we are sorry this has been delayed/isn't working, we are fixing it, we estimate a fix will arrive in X days/weeks/months". Major issues are being ignored but the missing letter D got a response.
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Regarding the social interactions, we've definitely made a couple of changes there - but it could be that the likelihood of occurrence isn't right yet. Not all animals have them, and some species only have them between certain stages, like adult to adult or adult to juvenile - it's a bit of a mix. The code doesn't consider it a "critical/survival" activity (as in, more important than for example feeding or fleeing) so if animals are busy it might not be triggered. Another possibility is that the habitat is too cluttered or lacking in open space for the animal to find the space for its social behaviour theatre - so it won't trigger.

We are currently looking into this, to see if there's anything we can do to increase the likelihood of social behaviour occurring. We do have our first update going out later today but it's not yet incorporated in that one - but rest assured we continue to look at this and will let you know when we have more information about it.

Hope this better addresses your concerns!
<3
 

Moonfox

Moonfox
Thank you for responding @Bo Marit! Your acknowledgement is so very much appreciated and I’m glad to have a response.

I don’t think space is the issue - I have massive open enclosures with very minimal trees/items (due to impatience at the moment, and wanting to get a feel for things) and still no interactions.

The importance factor makes a bit more sense of the situation. Is there a way to make social interactions closer to a default action? Or increase their importance? I think the frequency needs to be around 70-80% of the time, when the animal isn’t drinking, eating or sleeping to fulfil a need bar in the red. Can need bars decay more slowly to allow more time for social interaction?

Very glad to hear that there are different social programs for different age groups. Most of all, I’m extremely happy to hear that social interactions aren’t currently working as intended - I can’t wait to see them happening a lot more often and see our animals come to life! Thank you!
 

Mkau

M
Bo Marit said:
Regarding the social interactions, we've definitely made a couple of changes there - but it could be that the likelihood of occurrence isn't right yet. Not all animals have them, and some species only have them between certain stages, like adult to adult or adult to juvenile - it's a bit of a mix. The code doesn't consider it a "critical/survival" activity (as in, more important than for example feeding or fleeing) so if animals are busy it might not be triggered. Another possibility is that the habitat is too cluttered or lacking in open space for the animal to find the space for its social behaviour theatre - so it won't trigger.

We are currently looking into this, to see if there's anything we can do to increase the likelihood of social behaviour occurring. We do have our first update going out later today but it's not yet incorporated in that one - but rest assured we continue to look at this and will let you know when we have more information about it.

Hope this better addresses your concerns!
<3
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Thank you for your answer.I'm still quite careful regarding such promises,but this is at least some kind of relief.
I just wanted to add something to your "survival" aspect regarding the code.If it's already coded that way,then it should have been considered that the most crucial aspect regarding survival for young animals is the closeness to the mother/parents/family members.This is definitely not the case right now in the game,because in most cases offspring immediately runs away once born,lives on their own and might never return to it's mother anymore.Safety,closeness and bonding with other animals are the most crucial aspects regarding the survival of a young animal - even more than food for example.There are many cases of perfectly nourished and healthy young animals,which die because of the above mentioned psychological aspects.(Especially in zoos)
To sum it up,I think that specifically these very rare offspring - adult interactions are bothering people more,then seeing adults not interacting with each other in the game.
 
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Bo Marit

Lead Community Manager
Frontier
Moonfox said:
Thank you for responding @Bo Marit! Your acknowledgement is so very much appreciated and I’m glad to have a response.

I don’t think space is the issue - I have massive open enclosures with very minimal trees/items (due to impatience at the moment, and wanting to get a feel for things) and still no interactions.

The importance factor makes a bit more sense of the situation. Is there a way to make social interactions closer to a default action? Or increase their importance? I think the frequency needs to be around 70-80% of the time, when the animal isn’t drinking, eating or sleeping to fulfil a need bar in the red. Can need bars decay more slowly to allow more time for social interaction?

Very glad to hear that there are different social programs for different age groups. Most of all, I’m extremely happy to hear that social interactions aren’t currently working as intended - I can’t wait to see them happening a lot more often and see our animals come to life! Thank you!
Click to expand...

If you seem to have a very persistent lack of social interactions, do send your save file and a screenshot of your habitat to us, so we can investigate and help make further improvements!! <3
 

JamieCA

J
Bo Marit said:
Regarding the social interactions, we've definitely made a couple of changes there - but it could be that the likelihood of occurrence isn't right yet. Not all animals have them, and some species only have them between certain stages, like adult to adult or adult to juvenile - it's a bit of a mix. The code doesn't consider it a "critical/survival" activity (as in, more important than for example feeding or fleeing) so if animals are busy it might not be triggered. Another possibility is that the habitat is too cluttered or lacking in open space for the animal to find the space for its social behaviour theatre - so it won't trigger.

We are currently looking into this, to see if there's anything we can do to increase the likelihood of social behaviour occurring. We do have our first update going out later today but it's not yet incorporated in that one - but rest assured we continue to look at this and will let you know when we have more information about it.

Hope this better addresses your concerns!
<3
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I appreciate the response and recognition that this is an issue. In my experience space has 0 to do with it. I built a habitat that was 8,000 sq meters for my bonobos and then thought maybe it was too big, made it smaller, made if smaller again, removed items ect and no change. Same for zebras, thompson's gazelle ect.

The issue of babies fleeing from mom is also consistent, at least for me. To the point I wonder if it's a bug. Baby is born, runs away. From what I've observed the babies are not running towards food and do not eat after running away. They do something completely random like swimming.

I'm not sure how the coding works but if there is a way to simply turn up the frequency that seems to be largely what needs to happen as from various discussions I do know these behaviors are there.

Once again really appreciate the response. Even if it takes a month to get it worked out, as long as we know this issue is being worked on I think a lot of people will stick with the game.
 

JamieCA

J
inspectorgadget1 said:
And if for whatever reason certain things get delayed there would be a number on here criticising them for it, they can't win.
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The issue is whether or not Frontier openly states it, some things are delayed/not polished ect. If they are open about that and what goes into a certain issue reasonable players feel heard and likely sympathize with the work the Dev team likes to do. I know that for me having Bo recognize the social interaction issue and confirm those interactions are not as intended got rid of most of my frustration. Issue is not fixed but now we know they want to fix it. I have empathy for the Devs. They've clearly put a lot of work into this game, they clearly didn't have time to finish everything (I'm going to partially blame the new game mode here) and now they have to deal with a bunch of issues and unhappy people. I think the communication of issues feeds a lot of the unhappiness. Hopefully that will improve. We got a response on social interactions much faster post release than we did during the beta.
 
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