I'm curious, how is a PVP Bounty Hunter meant to counter a Python loaded up on shield cells?

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Losing a bigger ship that is setup for combat in battle, may it be a python, fdl or bigger.
for that to happen the pilot needs to make an error in judgment.
or be up against very focused fire from a group of ships.

also the python has 2 med and 3 large hardpoints vs the fdl 1 hugh and 4 med hardpoints
+python has bigger compartments

they are pretty different ships so its hard to just expect the fdl to be a better combat ship in any role.

The point is, the fdl can only do combat, the python can do anything. Of course the fdl should win, or what is the point of it? A combat trader should be able to defend itself against weaker enemies like vultures and below, not overpower pure combat ships of a similar weight class.

Scb should never have been implemented, as they aren't a choice really. They are a requirement to have a hope of survival against others who do use them. That is the very definition of overpowered.

 

[Derath]

the masslock change is what hurts the FDL versus Python the most, but the python was the slowest factor 18 ship by a sizeable margin and that made it especially vulnerable previously.

 

[jmp470]

Once you hit Clipper and above, you set the tone for the battle. A smaller player is not going to out fight you, regardless how good they are. However, like in all fights, he/she with the most friends wins. For the Clipper and above you have to learn their weaknesses. The Clipper is shields, Python is speed, Anaconda is maneuverability. Hmmmm, I realize that I have not tried the FDL, yet. Might need to do so.

Bottom line: You need multiple ships and for the bigger player to make a mistake!

 

[HeavyGroovez]

This, I've gotta be one of the pvp'ers with the most time in a Python and I can you your chances of beating a python with SCB's in a ship without is extremely low, funnily enough you need to be in a python to have a chance to actually bypass the SCB's entirely lol.

I was fighting a python in my PVE FDL this morning and everytime i'd get his shield down to 20%~ish with mine in good shape, he'd SCB and i'd just leave. Fighting SCB's without is basically you need to be able to destroy 6x a ships hull with your 1x, that takes tremendous pilot skill, or at least a massive difference in the two.

I mention the FDL as i don't think anything below it can actually put the damage out to destroy a large combat ship (clipper can), if you absolutely must kill you'd load up with a strange loadout like 3rails 2 beams or something like that, good for 1 target and 1 chance, nothing more.

Yeah, i got to the point where I pretty much only used triple rails on both my Python and FdL.

One hit wonder loadouts.

 

[dsagent]

I have been saying for a while not that banks need to be limited to one slot only.

PvP is getting boring and stale. I wanted to play a space game, not an MMO where people spam health potions to win.

In fact even MMOs limit potion usage.


With that being said some private PvP groups outright ban shield banks in the interests of having fun.

 

[n13L5]

1: I don't fly a vulture

2: I don't think a vulture should be able to kill a python

as for what I meant, I refer you to my post at the end of page 2. Kindly read it.

Hmm, this thread doesn't appear to have a page 2. I tried to find it, but the entire thread is on a single page in my browser...

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Hmm, this thread doesn't appear to have a page 2. I tried to find it, but the entire thread is on a single page in my browser...

Yes totally agree, the Python should be nerfed, the ' Conda too
Its totally unfair that a Sidey or well equipped Eagle cant mince a Python, it does not give a new player the ' I am God' feeling at all....
After all this game is about equal opportunity, everybody wins, noone looses, right ..
The should be no benefits of fluing a 200 mll. - 750 mill, credit ship, with insane rebuys, people can do that just to show of and trade... wait
Sidey should have & class ( cargoracks as well , then things are equal and we are all happy...
Taking of Sarcasm Filter and retreating to unfair game, and kill something in my Python, preferably a Sidey or Eagle

Cheers Cmdr's

... Yeah, because that's what I meant. I'm more concerned about the current trend of multipurpose ships like the python being equally suited for combat compared to their supposedly combat focused equivalent, the fdl , due to shield cell spam. Multipurpose ships need to pay a price for their versatility, and at current, they don't.

Care to join the discussion now instead of assuming I mean something I don't?

There you go...

 

[Renegade Roach]

... Yeah, because that's what I meant. I'm more concerned about the current trend of multipurpose ships like the python being equally suited for combat compared to their supposedly combat focused equivalent, the fdl , due to shield cell spam. Multipurpose ships need to pay a price for their versatility, and at current, they don't.

Care to join the discussion now instead of assuming I mean something I don't?

Compare the cost of a fully fitted FDL to a fully fitted Python and tell me it's really a problem. You pay a premium on a multirole to bring it up to combat parity with those in the same hull bracket. No, you're right that most expensive shouldn't be an automatic win, and it isn't. A good FDL pilot will own a bad Python Pilot. Two FDLs will own a Python, a wing of Vultures will own a Python. But only if you know what you are doing and use all the tools available. Stop asking for 1v1 balance, it's a fake gamey concept and isn't appropriate to this game.

Edit: I own and fly all the ships we're talking about, no personal 'my ship' bias here.

 

[xslam]

well balanced

Python should be countered with other python. The same for anaconda.

Reason: masslock and anaconda can't kill a python because of speed disparity.

 

[Renegade Roach]

Also, the state of shield cells actually has nothing to do with ship parity. It just tends to benefit the multis most due to lots of internals and grid. Nerf cells and you could still have the same arguement, and indeed people did before cells existed.

 

[kafolarbear]

Explain how better ships and equipment costing more is a lazy game design? That statement makes no sense.
I understand specialist ships should be better at combat than multi-role ships. But the difference in price to a fully loaded Python I would expect them to be very hard to kill. The Python turns like the titanic, so that it the Vultures advantage as a smaller ship.

The turn rate is instantly invalidated by any pilot who knows fa off/reverse. It is almost impossible to get behind that.

-CMDR Kbear

 

[xslam]

This was an exaple of how big ship could be balanced by anti-big ship weapon. It was quite easy to dodge that missiles in small ship.

(although almost every touch of them would tear the ship apart. Balance)

I believe missiles have been nerfed since this was made, but still..

Viper vs Python

They were nerfed because they were inside station interiors. By me partucularly...

 

[Renegade Roach]

This was an exaple of how big ship could be balanced by anti-big ship weapon. It was quite easy to dodge that missiles in small ship.

(although almost every touch of them would tear the ship apart. Balance)




They were nerfed because they were inside station interiors. By me partucularly...

Nah, dumbfires as was were just dumb. Viper taking down a Python like that, especially a pre shield nerf Python, was stupid. They needed balancing, but as usual FD went ott.

 

[xslam]

I was flying in a python in dumbfire era. It was wery scary because you should watch your six or you will teared by missile torrent but this ship had MIGHT of it's (non nerfed) shields and mighty guns with infinite ammo.

If FD made them not viable in stations (by station PDs) and cut missile velocity instead of damage it would be wiser.

 

[Renegade Roach]

I know what you mean, but don't really agree. Python needed balancing as much as dumbfire, it's a game and some level of balance is necessary for it to work even if parity isn't. Having small ships with a rebuy just a tiny fraction of a large ship being able to take down Pythons etc in seconds with one full rack of missiles was not good. It required no skill, no planning, no tactics other than 'herp derp missilez in ur face'. In real combat and arms manufacture people develop counters, your dumbfires would soon have been met by ships with immense shields which could survive the attack, or new armour, or weapons which destroyed your Viper before it ever got in range... that's what an arms race is. In Elite we just get (slightly over the top) balancing instead.

edit; Velocity nerf wouldn't have helped much anyway with that damage and rof. You'd just get right on a big ship's tail and velocity becomes irrelevant.

 

[xslam]

It required no skill, no planning, no tactics other than 'herp derp missilez in ur face

Heh, This is true for these "one shot" missiles, they were too powerful not only against big ships, but against any ship.

Having small ships with a rebuy just a tiny fraction of a large ship

And now if someone want to mass lock high level character (ED specific: ship) he has to buy identical gear. Terrible i think.

Although everyone can do it so it is not a game breaking problem if you have 1+ free hour per day.

 

[Renegade Roach]

Yeah masslock is a different issue, not sure how I even feel about it. I actually think destroying a ship, especially a large one, should be hard.. so from that point of view being able to jump out is ok. It can be countered with wings and scanners as long as they don't log. I don't think pvp in a game like this should ever be balanced around 1v1, so I guess the current status quo fits with that. *shrug*