Inconsistencies not explained by lore

[Sapyx]

Why do NPC crew get a cut of your profits even when they don’t participate?

Well, that one's easy - your contract with them says "Crewmember gets x% of all profits made while they are employed", so that's what they get. So the question then becomes, "Why did you sign a contract to hire them, with terms of employment that were ridiculously unfavourable to you?". There should, logically, be some mechanism in place to allow us to negotiate a better/different deal, something other than "percentage of gross profits".

 

[Sapyx]

Actually, the original colonists had decided on a name, but it was met with such derision from the general populace that they asked for community input. The response was so diverse and with so little tolerance of different ideas, that in the end they stuck with Duamta 4.

S

Yes, I'd accept an explanation like that... if it was only true for a handful of systems. But the truth is that there are hundreds, thousands even, of Earth-like planets with star-and-number names, and you can't stretch that scenario out that many times and still be realistic.

 

[Sysmon]

Yes, I'd accept an explanation like that... if it was only true for a handful of systems. But the truth is that there are hundreds, thousands even, of Earth-like planets with star-and-number names, and you can't stretch that scenario out that many times and still be realistic.

Yep, FDEV would have had to come up with some sort of random cultural and colonial history generator that steered a random name generator to make the names populate automatcally without appearing too random. Or, if one was to lore it away it could be that it was early on agreed upon that newly colonised planets should keep the name of the hosting system (for reasons). The names that differs from that are in fact either older than the system, or rebellious for whatever reason.

S

 

[Cmdr Holly Wood]

Actually, the original colonists had decided on a name, but it was met with such derision from the general populace that they asked for community input. The response was so diverse and with so little tolerance of different ideas, that in the end they stuck with Duamta 4.

S

Planety McPlanetface

 

[M00ka]

Planety McPlanetface

And that is why the 'authorities' took over the naming of planets and systems. It would either be as you described or every second planet would be 'New Earth' or some othre boring name

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

On the Explo data, what I came up with was the UC deploys some pretty extensive information integrity systems. These can only be trusted while the ships computer system is functioning nominally. If some major failure were to happen, then these checks can no longer be performed and the data's authenticity cannot be verified by UC's own systems and therefore cannot be trusted. It would presumably be possible for the system to determine a major failure is about to occur and dump some of the data into a storage with the the pilot's magic chair, but it is unreasonable to assume the magic chair's computer system capabilities or capacity come anything close to matching the ship's. This is too far from ideal and requires too many compromises and so the data is thrown away.

• Older Type-B Hyperdrives are still the main method of transporation - While goverments and NGOs do maintain small fleets of FSD capable starships for their own private use, the Pilots Federation still has a near monopoly on FSD travel. Most people and freight travel aboard the much slower transports from 10 years ago, where it took at least two weeks to travel to a nearby system, and months to travel across the Bubble.

I don't agree but I think it's a pretty cool idea.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

My headcanon is that FTL communication does exist in the ED universe, but that it is not particularly secure nor is it particularly reliable.

When factions want to transfer sensitive data (like polling data or battle plans) to another location, they hire a private courier instead of broadcasting the data on FTL comms for everyone to see. Factions aren't paying you to take data from point A to point B, they are paying you to take the data from point A to point B securely.

The many issues with multi-crew stem from the inherent unreliability of FTL communications. All of the UI bugs, de-syncs, and disconnections you get while using multi-crew are a direct result of this.

As for explaining why SRVs and SLFs don't have as many problems with telepresence as multi-crew, the short ranges (<50km) involved means that FTL communication isn't really needed. Because of this SRVs and SLFs are free to use more secure and reliable forms of communication that propagate at the speed of light.

I have no issues with the SRV turret or the SLF due to the low range.

But galaxy wide telepresence is just wrong. Surely anything that gives direct access to the brain would be of the highest security. Also the bandwidth involved would have to be high, also it's not just faster then light, its instantaneous no matter what the distance. Now I can kinda accept galnet, due to it being low bandwidth and not needing to be that secure. I can understand why exploration data isn't transmitted in the galnet system, because it's unsecure.

But I can't get my head around galaxy wide instantaneous telepresence. It's just wrong. There were many ways Fdev could have implemented multicrew that didn't help destroy the lore.

It's nearly as bad as the 3D ship printing teleportation of instant ship transfer that thankfully never arrived but nearly did.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That is yet another one of my bugbears in this game (damn that list is growing lol). In my version of ED, I should be incapable of operating any of the big ships by myself. I should be forced to hire crew just so I can leave the station. To me it is inconceivable that a ship as large as a cutter or corvette can be operated by one person. But if FD did ever decide to poke the game with the reality stick and introduce something like this then a lot has to change, starting with how much you pay these freeloaders considering you never see them on your ship!

Agreed. It's one of the reasons why I don't fly the big ships. It just seems a bit ridiculous to be able to fly those in my own. And if they are meant to be flown on their own, what's the point in the massive bridges that they have seems a bit pointless.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

When I see an inconsitency in the game I usually chuckle then remember im first and foremost playing a game and I dont require everything to have a lore explanation in order to enjoy the game.

Whilst it is good for you that it does not bother you , are you as forgiving when a book or a film has equally big plot holes. SOME games (or films for that matter) I don't worry about. These are generally the "to pass the time" titles which i consume when I have a spare half an HR or so or maybe on a Sunday when I have a hangover and just want to veg in front of the telly.

But the games I want to invest proper time into, or a film or book I actually care about, internal inconsistencies really do ruin the game for me.

Also the genre makes a difference too. If I am watching fantasy I am more forgiving than if I am watching supposedly well considered science fiction.

Back to topic. I dislike in high sec systems illegal missions are brazenly on the mission board. It's a bit like going to the noticeboard in Tesco's and it saying "wanted" hitman to take care of meddling wife.. or delivery driver needed to deliver 2 kilos of heroin. Good prices paid .
To me these missions should only be on open markets in anarchy space OR via a shady contact in high sec, one we only get access to when we have built up a certain rep with the right people.

Also Making black markets visible on the map was a massive step backwards and was imo demanded by players who were ignorant of the meaning of the black market. FD was wrong to cave in on that imo

 

[Vasious]

Agreed. It's one of the reasons why I don't fly the big ships. It just seems a bit ridiculous to be able to fly those in my own. And if they are meant to be flown on their own, what's the point in the massive bridges that they have seems a bit pointless.

The only idea I have for that one is the age of the ships.

The Anaconda as a design is hundreds of years old from a time when travelling between systems took weeks.
So they had a large crew that would work in shifts
In Elite the crew was listed as 40 to 72
175 years later Frontier it is down to 8 presumably through automation.
We are another 100 years for that, so running the ship with the sole help of the COVAS could be a think, but they are still produced with bridges as
1) Redundancy, especially for military use
2) Cost savings
3) most were built in the pre FSD era where it still took weeks to travel between systems
4) doubly so if the FSD is not universal.

I think Elite:Legacy has a Anaconda in Military services with a crew for round the clock patrols

 

[M00ka]

Whilst it is good for you that it does not bother you , are you as forgiving when a book or a film has equally big plot holes. SOME games (or films for that matter) I don't worry about. These are generally the "to pass the time" titles which i consume when I have a spare half an HR or so or maybe on a Sunday when I have a hangover and just want to veg in front of the telly.

But the games I want to invest proper time into, or a film or book I actually care about, internal inconsistencies really do ruin the game for me.

Also the genre makes a difference too. If I am watching fantasy I am more forgiving than if I am watching supposedly well considered science fiction.

Back to topic. I dislike in high sec systems illegal missions are brazenly on the mission board. It's a bit like going to the noticeboard in Tesco's and it saying "wanted" hitman to take care of meddling wife.. or delivery driver needed to deliver 2 kilos of heroin. Good prices paid .
To me these missions should only be on open markets in anarchy space OR via a shady contact in high sec, one we only get access to when we have built up a certain rep with the right people.

Also Making black markets visible on the map was a massive step backwards and was imo demanded by players who were ignorant of the meaning of the black market. FD was wrong to cave in on that imo

Big yes to both. On the slightly off-topic first bit - yep fully agree. One of my pet hates is watching a movie based on a top selling book and have major discrepancies (like half the movie taking place in a country never visited in the book or a major character is deleted/changed. Another thing I hate is blatant military inaccuracies, like calling a F/A-18 an F-16 or something - really grates on me for some reason.

Now for the second bit, the wacky screwed up world of FD security status. You are 100% right, a High-Sec would should be a beacon of safety to anyone who clean but damn near instant death for anyone who is wanted. No ifs. No buts. And factions should not be offering missions that are illegal, especially in a lot of cases you will end up with that bounty being assigned by the mission giver. Any illegal mission should only be given out in either Low-Sec or Anarchy systems, no where else.

Likewise, the Black Market should only exist in Low-Sec or Anarchy, basically the Black Market should be the equivalent of the Mission Board there. And it should reward someone for doing something illegal (like selling pirated commodities).

Okay will get off my soap box now

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The only idea I have for that one is the age of the ships.

The Anaconda as a design is hundreds of years old from a time when travelling between systems took weeks.
So they had a large crew that would work in shifts
In Elite the crew was listed as 40 to 72
175 years later Frontier it is down to 8 presumably through automation.
We are another 100 years for that, so running the ship with the sole help of the COVAS could be a think, but they are still produced with bridges as
1) Redundancy, especially for military use
2) Cost savings
3) most were built in the pre FSD era where it still took weeks to travel between systems
4) doubly so if the FSD is not universal.

I think Elite:Legacy has a Anaconda in Military services with a crew for round the clock patrols

If Michael Brookes book is canon (and it should be) then a main protagonist (can't remember his name) does have a 1 man anaconda however the book is very specific that this is a 1 of a kind ship highly modified and iirc a lot of compromises are made and there is stuff still limited because of it being 1 man crewed. That ship should imo be an outlier not the norm.
IF we really want to fly one solo maybe we should be able to but only at minimum levels (ie no class A gear for instace,). IF FD ever implement crew I would suggest all existing ships get populated for free as a 1 off with a choice of 1 elite member for us to pick (to make sure deep space explorers don't get marooned they could pick an elite navigator. I still hope

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The only idea I have for that one is the age of the ships.

The Anaconda as a design is hundreds of years old from a time when travelling between systems took weeks.
So they had a large crew that would work in shifts
In Elite the crew was listed as 40 to 72
175 years later Frontier it is down to 8 presumably through automation.
We are another 100 years for that, so running the ship with the sole help of the COVAS could be a think, but they are still produced with bridges as
1) Redundancy, especially for military use
2) Cost savings
3) most were built in the pre FSD era where it still took weeks to travel between systems
4) doubly so if the FSD is not universal.

I think Elite:Legacy has a Anaconda in Military services with a crew for round the clock patrols

Yeah, I can see that. I just don't want to fly a big ship and basically having the same experience as any other ship. They should be different.

Having a full NPC system would also add some much needed depth, substance and personality to the game, if it's done well.

 

[Arioch]

Station names and “Welcome” above the docking slot appear upside-down just as you are entering the Station.

On a few ships you can look down past your feet to see the correctly orientated “Welcome” but it’s not exactly a clear view, is it?

Reasoning: when the first Coriolis Station was ‘spun up’ to induce pseudo gravity, the workers decided to paint “Welcome” on their Station entrance in nice big friendly letters. Realising there is no up or down in Space, it was to be painted on both long sides of the slot.

After completing the sign they detached from the surface and drifted away to admire their handywork. This is when they remembered that “down” on a Coriolis is “towards the edge”. It had looked correct while they were painting it, but now...not so much.

After a quick word with their Union representatives there was the “yeah, we meant to do it like that” procedure implemented, whereby all future Stations throughout the Galaxy would be painted in a similar fashion, and any awkward questions would be met with the following response:

“Ah ha! There is no up or down in Space, your ship is just the wrong way up!”

...and as the confused Commander rotated their ship several times in front of the docking slot, the Union Rep could leg it quick-sharp to the nearest safe haven, preferably one that serves a large Leestian Evil Juice.

 

[Vasious]

If Michael Brookes book is canon (and it should be) then a main protagonist (can't remember his name) does have a 1 man anaconda however the book is very specific that this is a 1 of a kind ship highly modified and iirc a lot of compromises are made and there is stuff still limited because of it being 1 man crewed. That ship should imo be an outlier not the norm.
IF we really want to fly one solo maybe we should be able to but only at minimum levels (ie no class A gear for instace,). IF FD ever implement crew I would suggest all existing ships get populated for free as a 1 off with a choice of 1 elite member for us to pick (to make sure deep space explorers don't get marooned they could pick an elite navigator. I still hope

Yeah there was two Anaconda's a crewed one and a Solo one so a nice contrast.

If Crew was even introduced I would have all ships start crewed by "Achilles Robotics Able Spacebots" as default so no one had issues if in deep space, and as an explanation for why we never worried about crew before, then allow them be swapped out for Real Crew or other Spacebots

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Whilst it is good for you that it does not bother you , are you as forgiving when a book or a film has equally big plot holes. SOME games (or films for that matter) I don't worry about. These are generally the "to pass the time" titles which i consume when I have a spare half an HR or so or maybe on a Sunday when I have a hangover and just want to veg in front of the telly.

But the games I want to invest proper time into, or a film or book I actually care about, internal inconsistencies really do ruin the game for me.

Also the genre makes a difference too. If I am watching fantasy I am more forgiving than if I am watching supposedly well considered science fiction.

Back to topic. I dislike in high sec systems illegal missions are brazenly on the mission board. It's a bit like going to the noticeboard in Tesco's and it saying "wanted" hitman to take care of meddling wife.. or delivery driver needed to deliver 2 kilos of heroin. Good prices paid .
To me these missions should only be on open markets in anarchy space OR via a shady contact in high sec, one we only get access to when we have built up a certain rep with the right people.

Also Making black markets visible on the map was a massive step backwards and was imo demanded by players who were ignorant of the meaning of the black market. FD was wrong to cave in on that imo

I agree with all of this.

 

[Vasious]

Also Making black markets visible on the map was a massive step backwards and was imo demanded by players who were ignorant of the meaning of the black market. FD was wrong to cave in on that imo

And they really could have had them on the system map (and contact) as procedurally generated names like
"Henrik's Emporioum"
"Ceti Alpha Buy Sell and trade"
"Honest Abe's second hand goods"


On that, I assume the Mission Board, passenger lounge and Contacts are actually meeting in person with the Contact at their office, or shady bar or in untrafficed maintenance areas of the starport

Hence a lawful faction can offer illegal missions to people they trust, or consider expendable and the black market isn't in star port services.
Makes the change of faction contact as you increase in rep a meet and greet a more important person vs someone different answering the phone

Of course that falls down with one contact per faction per rep rank anywhere in the galaxy but if it is a comms call that gets to the FTL comms issues again. In the Empire they could be all clones I guess

 

[drew]

Why are we even risking our necks by actually being in our ships/srvs when we can pilot them from the front room sofa.

That to me is the biggest lore breaking thing in the game, and to be honest, I can't see anything that will fix it apart from complete removal.

This was one of the biggest lore breakers that occurred in the 'Great Lore RetCon' of 2017. This, amongst a few other notable trashings of the established lore, was one of the reasons I gave up trying to keep tabs on it. Post v2.3 of Elite Dangerous much of the original Elite Dangerous lore as used to construct the original game and narrative backdrop no longer applied, or was ignored in favour of hastily added gameplay dynamics.

My original lore articles have been preserved by Canonn - you can find them here.

Up to v2.2 there had been a big effort in consistency on the lore. Then it changed and the lore was ignored/rewritten/bypassed because 'gameplay'.

It was also around this time that promised 'old elite lore' inclusions (eg. the Tionisla Orbital Graveyard) were quietly dropped and never mentioned again. There may be some conclusions to be drawn.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yeah there was two Anaconda's a crewed one and a Solo one so a nice contrast.

If Crew was even introduced I would have all ships start crewed by "Achilles Robotics Able Spacebots" as default so no one had issues if in deep space, and as an explanation for why we never worried about crew before, then allow them be swapped out for Real Crew or other Spacebots

Good idea.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It was also around this time that promised 'old elite lore' inclusions (eg. the Tionisla Orbital Graveyard) were quietly dropped and never mentioned again. There may be some conclusions to be drawn.

Cheers,

Drew.

Let me preface this by "I am not a developer but!!!!,........."

because what seems like it should be fairly doable to me may not be.

but would putting the grave yard in even be a big amount of effort?. essentially all it needs to be is an orbital platform and then surround it by a huge amount of derelict ships. ( bit like an asteroid field but with - presumably lower detailed - ship models instead.

in the future if we ever get 2nd hand parts and what not, this could then become the go to place to get a good deal on used bits... but even if not, just having it existing even without much gameplay would be nice lore gravy.