Incrementally Improving PowerPlay - Make PowerPlay Open-Only

[Robert Maynard]

Heh, the "old chorus". It's funny how some people (you're not the only one) come here not to discuss the current proposal, with which they are free to agree or disagree, but to continue discussing old threads.

The basis of the topic is as old as the game design - right after some players realised that other players would not have to play with them to affect the game.

I know the person posting the OP and he doesn't do PVP at all, so if this is just about having "more player targets in Open" I'd suggest you to ask yourself why someone who only hauls in PP could possibly want it to be Open Only. If you find it hard to understand give the OP another read.

The "why" is easy:

Although the authors are Winters/FLC commanders, these proposals have been made and discussed by pilots from many Powers.

It seems to be a combined effort by those who consider that they are in some way in charge of Powers activities.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well... guess you just found out why ED is not a PVP game.
Just a PVE game where pvp is sometimes possible and why forcing people to pvp is not a wise choice...


But who knows, maybe they can throw PP signed commanders in a CQC like instance so they can fight in there instead of creating a random instance in normal space where other non-pp-involved commanders can follow an ruin their PP dream combat...

But you miss the point that people want opportunistic PvP, and that it gains meaning because you can't get around its possibility.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But you miss the point that people want opportunistic PvP, and that it gains meaning because you can't get around its possibility.

Some do, no doubt - others don't - in a game where PvP is an optional extra.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It seems to be a combined effort by those who consider that they are in some way in charge of Powers activities.

Its because these groups run Powerplay- they organize all activities in game and decide a powers direction. Without them Powerplay as an organized activity dies.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Some do, no doubt - others don't - in a game where PvP is an optional extra.

Without the threat of interception or destruction Powerplay loses any meaning because it then degenerates into efficency x capacity.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Without the threat of interception or destruction Powerplay loses any meaning because it then degenerates into efficency x capacity.

It might lose meaning for some, indeed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Its because these groups run Powerplay- they organize all activities in game and decide a powers direction. Without them Powerplay as an organized activity dies.

.... and no-one who pledges needs to pay any attention to what they say, if they even know of their existence.

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

It seems to be a combined effort by those who consider that they are in some way in charge of Powers activities.

Oh, it's not that they consider they are in charge of Powers activities. They in fact are, and represent the vast majority of the Powerplay player base. The opinions of those who don't do Powerplay but still come here to oppose every possible change for the better are welcome but irrelevant, imo.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Oh, it's not that they consider they are in charge of Powers activities. They in fact are, and represent the vast majority of the Powerplay player base. The opinions of those who don't do Powerplay but still come here to oppose every possible change for the better are welcome but irrelevant, imo.

Although I suspect what this actually demonstrates is that the powerplay playerbase that aren't module shopping is so small that small very active groups can direct a power's activities because they represent a majority of those activities in the first place.

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

Although I suspect what this actually demonstrates is that the powerplay playerbase that aren't module shopping is so small that small very active groups can direct a power's activities because they represent a majority of those activities in the first place.

Yeah you're probably right. The set of proposals discussed here, if implemented, could help bringing more players into PP and make some of the people who's left over the years return.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Oh, it's not that they consider they are in charge of Powers activities. They in fact are, and represent the vast majority of the Powerplay player base. The opinions of those who don't do Powerplay but still come here to oppose every possible change for the better are welcome but irrelevant, imo.

They may hold the opinion that they are in charge - however no-one who pledges needs to pay any heed to them and they cannot control who pledges nor kick any pledges.

When those who propose changes that may have adverse effects for other players are quick to disregard those other players (or don't even acknowledge that there will be players who are adversely affected) in pursuit of their own desires, the desires of the change proponents can be disregarded just as easily.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It might lose meaning for some, indeed.

Well a feature needs a reason to play it- if you have three features with two being much better why play the third at all?

 

[Rubbernuke]

.... and no-one who pledges needs to pay any attention to what they say, if they even know of their existence.

Which is the reason most people don't play it. Powerplay is a group activity requiring organization- its how these groups came to be in the first place.

 

[Rubbernuke]

They may hold the opinion that they are in charge - however no-one who pledges needs to pay any heed to them and they cannot control who pledges nor kick any pledges.

When those who propose changes that may have adverse effects for other players are quick to disregard those other players (or don't even acknowledge that there will be players who are adversely affected) in pursuit of their own desires, the desires of the change proponents can be disregarded just as easily.

They ARE in charge, how do I know? You can watch almost 1:1 (bar 5C) powers plans appear to the unit over the week. The only power that acts like FD thought it might is Aisling who has a few large groups within it. If Powerplay was controlled at an individual level doing their own thing the numbers would be totally different, along with what systems are expanded into.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Or are there actually loads of people flying around that i'm simply not being matchmaked with?

If my own experiments are any indication (due to Sandro’s comment that the majority of players play in Open) are any indication... Yes, you’re probably seeing only a tithe of the players in the system. Assuming you’re playing during your local prime time, which providethe best chance to instance with strangers, of course.

What I find dubious about this whole proposal is that every Powerplay group claims that every other group is playing in solo/PG, while they bravely play in open. We know that there are players out there playing sub-optimally, engaging in PvP when they could be hauling/farming merits because they’d rather have fun than win. And if we are to believe Sandro again, we know that only a tiny fraction of players engage in PvP.

Which is more likely, that PvPers are far more likely to be playing in Solo/PGs than the typical player, due to competitiveness? Or that like most players, PowerPlayers are equally likely to play in open, and those that don’t do so because they’re uninterested in PvP?

But as I said, at this stage I’m willing to give them the chance to there’s correct. But it’s not me they have to convince. After all, we all know what happened to the last lead developer who,thought this was a good idea...

 

[Khan Tannhauser]

They may hold the opinion that they are in charge - however no-one who pledges needs to pay any heed to them and they cannot control who pledges nor kick any pledges.

It's more than just an opinion when those organized player groups are the ones who effectively direct their Power's actions week after week.

When those who propose changes that may have adverse effects for other players are quick to disregard those other players (or don't even acknowledge that there will be players who are adversely affected) in pursuit of their own desires, the desires of the change proponents can be disregarded just as easily.

Players who don't do Powerplay can't be "adversely affected" by the changes proposed here. Most people understand this, those who freak out when they see the words "Open" and "Only" in the same sentence even when the subject is an activity they don't care about are a minority, luckily.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's more than just an opinion when those organized player groups are the ones who effectively direct their Power's actions week after week.

The outcomes may align with their desires to an extent - that does not imply control, even if those who listen to the organisers outnumber those who don't.

Players who don't do Powerplay can't be "adversely affected" by the changes proposed here. Most people understand this, those who freak out when they see the words "Open" and "Only" in the same sentence even when the subject is an activity they don't care about are a minority, luckily.

.... and the players that already engage in Powerplay in Solo and Private Groups? They have been disregarded entirely in the proposal - as the proposal is designed to stop them being able to engage in Powerplay in those modes.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If my own experiments are any indication (due to Sandro’s comment that the majority of players play in Open) are any indication... Yes, you’re probably seeing only a tithe of the players in the system. Assuming you’re playing during your local prime time, which providethe best chance to instance with strangers, of course.

What I find dubious about this whole proposal is that every Powerplay group claims that every other group is playing in solo/PG, while they bravely play in open. We know that there are players out there playing sub-optimally, engaging in PvP when they could be hauling/farming merits because they’d rather have fun than win. And if we are to believe Sandro again, we know that only a tiny fraction of players engage in PvP.

Which is more likely, that PvPers are far more likely to be playing in Solo/PGs than the typical player, due to competitiveness? Or that like most players, PowerPlayers are equally likely to play in open, and those that don’t do so because they’re uninterested in PvP?

But as I said, at this stage I’m willing to give them the chance to there’s correct. But it’s not me they have to convince. After all, we all know what happened to the last lead developer who,thought this was a good idea...

To really know all of Sandros suggestions need to be enacted for maximum impact: uncapped UM (to create crisis points), fort direction becoming universally inbound (making capitals busy) and limiting the BGS footprint going hand in hand with Open. Along with contested prep and expansion sites you create ad hoc arenas.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah you're probably right. The set of proposals discussed here, if implemented, could help bringing more players into PP and make some of the people who's left over the years return.

See, I'm not sure about that because quite a few of them seem to specialise it more towards the tastes of the few already doing it. This being one of them. A suggestion that mode-restricts the activity to open is going to have the opposite effect, it's going to remove the players who want to do powerplay and feel like they're supporting a faction in the metagame but who don't want to play with other people or can't play in open.

If you want suggestions to bring more people into Powerplay, you want to look at reasons people aren't doing it right now and focus on changing those.

I very much suspect "too much hauling" is a massive one. It's certainly one of the big reasons I'm not bothered with it. Like people will do hauling occasionally for a community goal but there they get paid in personal progress for the hauling and have a clear understanding of their effects within the goal. But if there was always a hauling community goal on then people would drop out of doing them after a couple of weeks.

Powerplay for most factions is a hauling community goal that never ends and you have to either wait or pay to skip the wait do it, getting no personal benefit for your trouble only vague merits buried in a menu somewhere that lead to a "wage" which is literal peanuts.

One of the biggest things it needs, if it's not going to be completely redone as an exclusive PvP mode, is a wider range of activities to generate PP progress, so that every major gameplay interaction (with the possible exception of exploration which is inherently in unclaimed space) has some effect as long as you do them in the right place for your faction.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The outcomes may align with their desires to an extent - that does not imply control, even if those who listen to the organisers outnumber those who don't.

.... and the players that already engage in Powerplay in Solo and Private Groups? They have been disregarded entirely in the proposal - as the proposal is designed to stop them being able to engage in Powerplay in those modes.

Powerplay is always about control by numbers- if you control enough people you control the outcome. This has been the case since cycle 2 or 3 when power groups came into being- as time has gone on the groups have become the defaco 'controllers'. If PP went open and there was a huge influx of players this might change, but by now everyone who runs a power knows how it works and a lot of people just want someone to give them something to do (as opposed to flailing blindly and giving up).