Incursion (HELP!!) (group evasion tactics)

[Expanding Man]

I am a standard beta backer, I have been enjoying the single player missions of which I have beaten all (in the first two hours of playing) except that I am horribly stuck on Incursion.

After a little practice, I have gotten to the point where I get to wave 9 every time (the wave consisting of 3 sidewinders and a federal fighter) but I can almost never beat this wave (I beat it once out of dumb luck with 5% hull let, I got the Anaconda down to 50% hull and then died).

Frustratingly, no matter what I try I have severe problems fighting the groups. I can sometimes get through the wave with the 1 sidewinder and 2 fighters with barely a scratch, but usually my shields go down even on that wave. I can avoid getting hit entirely against groups of federal fighters by keeping my distance, but that method takes longer than I'd like.

Anyway, I have found this video and have watched it carefully many times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7Linx9QDc

It is absolutely baffling to me that this guy doesn't get hit more. From the video (and carefully watching his gauges) as far as I can tell he is doing exactly what I do but somehow miraculously never gets hit.

I'm doing all of the following:
->I've gotten extremely accurate with my railgun, perhaps not quite to the level in the video but if not, than damn close.
->I'm ALWAYS moving laterally like crazy, I've tried doing this sometimes more, some times less than in the video, and everywhere in between.
->I of course target the sidewinders with the pulse lasers first.
->I've tried every combination of power settings I can think of. Starting out with power to shields and then switching to engines seems to buy me a little bit of time but not much.
->I've tried getting out of the "joust" entirely from early on (this is a very bad idea but I had to try).

I've probably tried a million other things that I can't think of right now.

Please help! No matter what I do, I get absolutely pulverized on wave 9. I am really running out of ideas. It is extremely frustrating to watch someone else do exactly what I'm doing and miraculously survive with barely a scratch.

I suppose I should have framed this as a more general question about group evasion tactics, but the Incursion mission now has me fairly enraged and feeling like I might not deserve to live...

 

[Sanderson]

Try running, not all the ships pursue always, let's you take on more manageable numbers

 

[forger]

i, for one, have exactly same problem, not big problems up to wave 9 and then i just am dead in 5 seconds, i don't understand why, full shields, max hull and...

the guy from that video (Aleksej) uses same tactics i do i just suck at those, he uses vertical thruster ~25% down when facing head to head and he just manages to take out VERY fast 1-2 enemies and then sit on another's tail so only 1-2 will able to shoot, while i cannot even close with this wave, 8th wave is more or less easy to pass by

so from my understanding the key to beat 9th wave is:
1) enter it with 100% shields and hull;
2) take out 1-2 enemies VERY fast
3) sit on next target six so he cannot shoot back at you and then (1-2dead 1 you chase) only 1-2 enemies can actually shoot at you and as you are moving they will most shots miss;

the problem for me is that i cannot kill fast enough and then i am dead

 

[Expanding Man]

i, for one, have exactly same problem, not big problems up to wave 9 and then i just am dead in 5 seconds, i don't understand why, full shields, max hull and...

the problem for me is that i cannot kill fast enough and then i am dead

Yup, pretty much how it is. The frustrating thing is that I have managed on occasion to take out the first sidewinder FASTER than in the video, AND turned on the second guy just as fast, but by the time I did, shields down and hull failing.

I don't get it, it's like the guy in the video radioed the sidewinder pilots promising them a cash reward for not shooting him...

 

[forger]

yeah, i don't quite get it, probably need to use change direction fast, it's hard to understand because it gives so little time for anything, like 10 seconds

they always spawn right in front of me and start shooting almost instantly

 

[Expanding Man]

Holy ****, I beat it.

Actually, I now got up to the Anaconda a whole bunch of times, it was always fairly easy, but it kept warping out when it had like 5% hull left. Fortunately, eventually I scored a critical and it cracked.

I still absolutely do not understand how the guy in the video was miraculously never getting hit, but I was able to buy myself quite a lot of time by constantly adjusting my power levels (I mean really, I was hitting those buttons A LOT!).

If anybody can give me an explanation of that video I'd love to hear it. Still can't evade the large groups very well myself, despite apparently moving much more than in the video...

 

[forger]

as he explained to me you have to hit vertical thrust at the right moment and evade most fire t the beginning, i can't find that moment

i guess you run ED on middle level PC?

 

[Isinona]

I'd imagine that the disparity between his video and your experience is that he is playing in Premium Beta 2.02 where all of the AI tweaks have rolled into the single player missions.

As a Standard Beta player, you are playing with Alpha 1.1, which if I remember rightly had AI that hardly ever missed.

 

[Expanding Man]

As a Standard Beta player, you are playing with Alpha 1.1, which if I remember rightly had AI that hardly ever missed.

Oh.... that would make SO much sense. I just assumed that the combat module was changed to 2.02 as well. Are you sure about that or are you just guessing?

i guess you run ED on middle level PC?

Yes, how did you conclude that? Sadly, it's very much an aging machine. However, I am very excited that soon I am going to rebuild it with a 3.5GHz 6-core Haswell-E (which supports DDR4) and a GTX880. It's going to be great, right now I am just waiting for nVidia to release their cards. They have taken longer than they should, I think they are having problems with the dye shrink.

 

[forger]

Yes, how did you conclude that? Sadly, it's very much an aging machine. However, I am very excited that soon I am going to rebuild it with a 3.5GHz 6-core Haswell-E (which supports DDR4) and a GTX880. It's going to be great, right now I am just waiting for nVidia to release their cards. They have taken longer than they should, I think they are having problems with the dye shrink.

there are silly speculations about AI strength and CPU power - better the CPU=easier to beat AI, would be really nice if you could upgrade until 29th and tell if that incursion got easier or not for you

but if that's true and we are playing different build than PBers then it's possible too, doubtful but possible anyway how did you beat 9th wave? i can't even close with them as they kill me just while i am approaching (in like 10seconds)

 

[Expanding Man]

I'm not a software engineer by trade, but have written my share of code and I cannot possibly imagine how CPU performance could affect the AI in such a way. The CPU is executing the same algorithm regardless of how fast it is.

Anyway, for beating wave 9, yes it's very tough, but I've done it a bunch of times now (granted the most I've ever had after it was over was 30% hull).

First, ignore that video, it's completely crazy, nothing I've tried let me avoid getting hit that much and, believe me, I've tried a lot.

The first key to beating wave 9 is really wave 7. It's easy to also take a ton of damage on wave 7, and you really have to get out of it with full hull, or close to it. That's tough, but not impossible (like I would say it seems to be on wave 9). At least on wave 7 you can do this in pretty much the standard way. Start on the sidewinder (you need to be accurate enough to take it out fairly quickly), make sure your power to shields is maxed out, but be ready to change your power distribution once the sidewinder is dead and get some space between you and the fighters. Then, for the remainder of waves 7 and 8, joust with the fighters, if you do that you should be able to get through it without taking too many hits and get to wave 9 with nearly full shields.

Then wave 9, you MUST do all of the following, if you miss any of it you'll die
1) Full power to shields.
2) Strafe, and roll around (not too fast) so you change direction. You'll still take a ton of damage.
3) Take out one of the sidewinders with the pulse lasers and do it QUICK. You can only afford one or two misses with your railgun. Then move to the next one, also with the pulse lasers (one of them has the little bolts) and do that quick. You'll have a little more time to kill him, because you have one fewer on you, but you still need to be fast, because by now your shields are down.

You MIGHT have time to boost away from some of the guys on wave 9 after you take out the first sidewinder but try not to count on it. Once both the guys with the pulse lasers are dead it gets a lot easier.

A word of warning, you will need full power to shields and also at least one pip to weapons, so because your engines are so underpowered you will actually get hit MORE, which is why I hadn't tried this strategy as much before. Apparently, the boosted shields more than makes up for it.

The Anaconda is really easy, thank god (it can't shoot behind itself and can't turn). Unfortunately though, it will often warp out, so you have to get it as quickly as possible.

Anyway, ultimately it'll look nothing like it did in the video. I took a hell of a beating.

By the way, I've beaten it on my mouse, but not on my X52. I've been favoring the mouse, I know some people consider this heretical.

 

[Isinona]

Oh.... that would make SO much sense. I just assumed that the combat module was changed to 2.02 as well. Are you sure about that or are you just guessing?

Check to see what number is in the top corner of your build when playing. If it says 1.1 then you still have its old AI model I think it's safe to say.

Just did a quick test and can confirm that the AI in the single player scenarios in PB 2.02 has changed considerably since the 1.1 version that you are playing.

I know this as I have a video of the AI in 'Recon Wing' from 1.1, where if you stayed still they would not brake when close to you but instead loop the loop to get some distance. In 2.02 they now come to a halt next to you and keep shooting.

I remember the eerie accuracy of the AI in 1.1, shooting you from all ranges. The AI is far more nuanced and 'human' in 2.02, so if you're getting to the Anaconda on Incursion in version 1.1 then you are already a formidable combatant.

 

[forger]

interesting, which ones are sides with pulse lasers? i mean 2 on the left of middle ones?

anyway wave 7 is easiest, usually i take 2 ships head to head and then return for kills, 8th wave is easy if you manage to get distance, i killed couple times all 4 in a closure, but wave 9 just kills me no matter what i do

also it's weird - sometimes it's easy and you kill most waves very fast and sometimes i get stuck at wave 3-5...especially if i start new wave with shields down then it's a mess

 

[Expanding Man]

Check to see what number is in the top corner of your build when playing.

Well, it's quite weird, becaue it says 1.00, but I happen to know for a fact that it is not the same as alpha 1.00. I have watched videos of that and it is totally different, the AI is different, and even the weapons are totally different (in my version railgun is strong, but the beam laser is pretty much useless). So, I don't know, from your description it sounds like it has to be 1.1. The AI definitely doesn't sit, or loop the loop. It is also very accurate (at least with the pulse lasers) at all ranges, after a week of trying I cannot evade the groups, even when I ONLY try to evade and don't try to hit them. I can definitely evade single ships quite well (after some practice), so I don't think it's just me.

Forger, if you have an easy time with wave 7, I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before you get 9. Are you adjusting your power? I have found that the more I adjust my power the better I am. Keep power to shields during the cluster**** period and then when they go down put power to engines. I really have to constantly adjust it.

Also, on wave 9 I just start with the guy in the center (he has pulse lasers). Shooting at guys at the edges is an interesting tactic, because the formation breaks up in a different way, but on wave 9 it just doesn't matter because you just don't have time.

Also, I beat it a couple of more times and I am having more success boosting away on wave 9 (of course you have to get one first or you're screwed).

 

[forger]

Forger, if you have an easy time with wave 7, I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before you get 9. Are you adjusting your power? I have found that the more I adjust my power the better I am. Keep power to shields during the cluster**** period and then when they go down put power to engines. I really have to constantly adjust it.

Also, on wave 9 I just start with the guy in the center (he has pulse lasers). Shooting at guys at the edges is an interesting tactic, because the formation breaks up in a different way, but on wave 9 it just doesn't matter because you just don't have time.

Also, I beat it a couple of more times and I am having more success boosting away on wave 9 (of course you have to get one first or you're screwed).

yeaps, it's like 20minutes of playing just for 10seconds when you must kill that guy fast and if you don't you're wasted
i usually go head to head 4 shields-2weapons and when chase someone make it 2-2-2 and when run away 2-4-0, obviously

but i still cannot dance with them, i need to drive by and kill as many as i can and then boost away and return for the rest, usually that works, but not for wave 9. i am just killed way too fast

how do you boost away? kill the guy in the middle, power to engines and boost boost straight past them or what?

 

[Expanding Man]

how do you boost away? kill the guy in the middle, power to engines and boost boost straight past them or what?

Ironically, it works better if I go past the first guy a little and have to turn around for him. If I'm also strafing that buys me a few seconds of the other guys having a hard time locking on, but you have to make your kill right after that or you're dead. Makes sure the second your shields go down you throw it all to engines. Granted, boosting away definitely does not always work after the first guy, should always work after the second.

 

[Falkenherz]

Interesting speculation. The pre-beta version I play is labelled "combat 1.0".

I have the same or similar problems and I fail aready on wave 4. Aside from that my railgun does not work properly, the Sidewinders have a deadly accuracy and it seems impossible but with sheer luck to beat even one with just the crappy beam laser. If there are two, I almost never escape being hit by the one I am not tailing.

It is kind of reassuring that the final game will have a more "adjusted" AI, and hopefully my railgun-bug is gone until then, too.

 

[Expanding Man]

What's happening to your railgun?

 

[forger]

Interesting speculation. The pre-beta version I play is labelled "combat 1.0".

I have the same or similar problems and I fail aready on wave 4. Aside from that my railgun does not work properly, the Sidewinders have a deadly accuracy and it seems impossible but with sheer luck to beat even one with just the crappy beam laser. If there are two, I almost never escape being hit by the one I am not tailing.

It is kind of reassuring that the final game will have a more "adjusted" AI, and hopefully my railgun-bug is gone until then, too.

use vertical thrust and avoid dancing with ships your size or smaller (FF and Sidies), i hate that sidie that rolls and shoots crap out of you, sometimes if you are not concentrating enough he can kill your shields just like that, and i have trouble sometimes keeping up with FF, they just decide to hover over me constantly shooting, sometimes it's easy as kindergarten sometimes impossible.

but i hope they will make ai even "worse" so killing some bosses will be real challenge and will require coop from PC's, if FD wants this game to be for all then there should be real challenges at least somewhere

 

[Aleksej]

use vertical thrust and avoid dancing with ships your size or smaller (FF and Sidies), i hate that sidie that rolls and shoots crap out of you, sometimes if you are not concentrating enough he can kill your shields just like that, and i have trouble sometimes keeping up with FF, they just decide to hover over me constantly shooting, sometimes it's easy as kindergarten sometimes impossible.

but i hope they will make ai even "worse" so killing some bosses will be real challenge and will require coop from PC's, if FD wants this game to be for all then there should be real challenges at least somewhere

New record today - about 9:45-9:51 minutes to complete. Video recorded, about 1 minute faster than the last time.