Instant Transfer: Practical Effects

[ROSS-128]

Have none of you ever played X3 or any of its expansions?

Do you think just because X3's simulation of systems you aren't in are more abstract than when you're there, that the time it takes for a ship that you're ordering around to travel from Mars to Home of Light is "just window dressing"?

 

[Arkadi]

Is this turning into a cat's fight soon?

Don't know. Points have been made. Opinions declared. Can't do much more but starting to insult those with other opinions now?

* instant transfer: fun (maybe, maybe not when insta transfer is used to grieve others with it and make it even easyer to get away with it), easy gameplay, money sink

* delayed transfer: for balance (becouse PvP, Grieving, Piracy, Powerplay, CGs, other Gameplayreasons...)

* other ideas (limitting to once a day, autopilot, commander transfer)


I see Frontier has made a call for instant transfer on Gamescom. I see a lively discussin about this call on the forums. I see there is still lot of time until mid October and I see there will be a beta testing before release.

I think it's good to have a discussion going to foster awareness of issues that might be a consequence of a new feature.

 

[The Chairmaker]

Fly Python to Alpha centauri, land at base. Summon Sidewinder. Fly sidewinder to Hutton Orbital in Alpha Centauri, Summon Python. Save Wear and tear cost of Python.

Transfer cost of Python In System would therefore need to be greater than Python wear and tear. How does this then affect multiplier cost for multi light year transfers.

This applies to all other systems were settlements are located at primary and secondary suns were there is a large in system distance.

 

[Goose4291]

Long range travel, and the 'decline' of the need for Fuel Rat services

As there will be no need to physically move your ships that don't have the best range anymore, it's reasonable to assume that this mechanic would lead to a decline in the need for the fuel rats as no longer will we see unthinking FDL/Vulture pilots running out of fuel transiting to CGs, Powerplay undermining target or general moving to new stomping grounds.

It means beyond long distance rescue of explorers the needs for the fuel rats in bubble will now be nearly non-existant beyond the odd newbie sidewinder

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Fly Python to Alpha centauri, land at base. Summon Sidewinder. Fly sidewinder to Hutton Orbital in Alpha Centauri, Summon Python. Save Wear and tear cost of Python.

Transfer cost of Python In System would therefore need to be greater than Python wear and tear. How does this then affect multiplier cost for multi light year transfers.

This applies to all other systems were settlements are located at primary and secondary suns were there is a large in system distance.

That would only happen in the circumstances where a shipyard existed at the other end though, based on the info we've seen released.

 

[ROSS-128]

Long range travel, and the 'decline' of the need for Fuel Rat services

As there will be no need to physically move your ships that don't have the best range anymore, it's reasonable to assume that this mechanic would lead to a decline in the need for the fuel rats as no longer will we see unthinking FDL/Vulture pilots running out of fuel transiting to CGs, Powerplay undermining target or general moving to new stomping grounds.

It means beyond long distance rescue of explorers the needs for the fuel rats in bubble will now be nearly non-existant beyond the odd newbie sidewinder

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That would only happen in the circumstances where a shipyard existed at the other end though, based on the info we've seen released.

That actually reminds me of when I re-introduced a friend to Elite who had stopped playing a while ago. After flying around and blowing up pirates together for about a week he decided to try the FDL for the first time, and promptly got it stranded on the way to finish outfitting it (we just happened to have a bit of bad luck finding some modules he needed at the time, and they ended up a bit further away than we expected).

It was actually kind of fun quickly swapping a fuel limpet controller and some limpets into my ship and going out to rescue him. It as probably a bit less fun for him, but at least we were able to chat and joke about the situation in the meantime. And he learned a valuable lesson about searching the map for scoopable stars (or making sure you're not jumping into a field of un-scoopables) when your tank gets low.

 

[Mohrgan]

Why does it maintain the problems? Introduce a new company (GalNet Logistics or whatever) with super lifters that can jump long distances and they transport your ship. Give it a base time of 3m plus 1m per 50ly and they drop your ship outside a station and pilot it in for you. You get a message that your ships arrived so that you can go take on a quick mission or do other things while you're waiting. A 100ly transfer is a 5m wait and it solves the lore/immersion issues while removing the PP short-circuit route.

The problem is having to come up with flimsy, behind the scenes, activities that add no game play. The mechanic described would add a 5 min delay for no other reason than someone's imagination was troubled. To satisfy a need for lore, a useless wait is introduced. No reason for how a huge ship carrying other ships can travel 100 lys in a snap. That is what I call Handwavium. Twohandwavium would just allow the Commander in question to get on with what he wanted to do.

There is no benefit to game play for any delay that isn't associated with the actual flight mechanic. Introducing a delay would just be pandering to the immersion challenged. Any concerns about balance are moot because everyone would have access to the mechanic.

 

[ROSS-128]

The problem is having to come up with flimsy, behind the scenes, activities that add no game play. The mechanic described would add a 5 min delay for no other reason than someone's imagination was troubled. To satisfy a need for lore, a useless wait is introduced. No reason for how a huge ship carrying other ships can travel 100 lys in a snap. That is what I call Handwavium. Twohandwavium would just allow the Commander in question to get on with what he wanted to do.

There is no benefit to game play for any delay that isn't associated with the actual flight mechanic. Introducing a delay would just be pandering to the immersion challenged. Any concerns about balance are moot because everyone would have access to the mechanic.

You know what? Go play X3: Terran Conflict (or Albion Prelude, whichever floats your boat), then come back here and tell us if ships taking time to travel is a pointless mechanic with no gameplay purpose.

 

[Arkadi]

The problem is having to come up with flimsy, behind the scenes, activities that add no game play. The mechanic described would add a 5 min delay for no other reason than someone's imagination was troubled. To satisfy a need for lore, a useless wait is introduced. No reason for how a huge ship carrying other ships can travel 100 lys in a snap. That is what I call Handwavium. Twohandwavium would just allow the Commander in question to get on with what he wanted to do.

There is no benefit to game play for any delay that isn't associated with the actual flight mechanic. Introducing a delay would just be pandering to the immersion challenged. Any concerns about balance are moot because everyone would have access to the mechanic.

I repeat: concerns about balance and gameplay: becouse everyone would have acces to the mechaic (insert: who can afford it) - would mean a gameplay of instant ship switching commanders. At one moment I would see commander xy marryly jumping around in his asp. Only short time later he is cruising in hyperspace in a fully combat fitted FDL, after another short encounter suddenly he is in his fully fitted corvette.

That would be ok, if it all happened in the home system of commander xy, where all his ships actually were stored. But it can happen anywhere and anytime with instant ship transfer. Argh! And the argument that anyone can do it - also me - makes this no deal better. It only makes it worse. A game of ship-switching. Please no.

edit: balance problem is becouse the insta-ship call is based on money. gameplay problem is insta-ship call can force a ship-calling contest upon pvp players - witch would not be anything I'd call fun.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Fly Python to Alpha centauri, land at base. Summon Sidewinder. Fly sidewinder to Hutton Orbital in Alpha Centauri, Summon Python. Save Wear and tear cost of Python.

Transfer cost of Python In System would therefore need to be greater than Python wear and tear. How does this then affect multiplier cost for multi light year transfers.

This applies to all other systems were settlements are located at primary and secondary suns were there is a large in system distance.

Hutton orbital is an outpost.
It has no shipyard.
You need a shipyard for transfers.

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I repeat: concerns about balance and gameplay: becouse everyone would have acces to the mechaic (insert: who can afford it) - would mean a gameplay of instant ship switching commanders. At one moment I would see commander xy marryly jumping around in his asp. Only short time later he is cruising in hyperspace in a fully combat fitted FDL, after another short encounter suddenly he is in his fully fitted corvette.

That would be ok, if it all happened in the home system of commander xy, where all his ships actually were stored. But it can happen anywhere and anytime with instant ship transfer. Argh!

So where is my home system where all my ships are stored? Do I have a home system? Do I have 20 FDLs parked all over the place? Do I log in at 3am to transfer my ships somewhere?
How do you know if I have a ship stored somewhere already?

 

[Arkadi]

Hutton orbital is an outpost.

So where is my home system where all my ships are stored? Do I have a home system? Do I have 20 FDLs parked all over the place? Do I log in at 3am to transfer my ships somewhere?
How do you know if I have a ship stored somewhere already?

At least I know at the moment that you can not teleport your ships to you from anywhere. If I would see you switching fully fitted ships in short time in the game how it is like now, I could well assume that you have had it parked here and there is a good chance that you may consider this your home-base. I can assume as the game is working now, that it will take some reasonable time for another pilot to get into another fully fitted ship in the higher price classes whereas in insta-call times I can be pretty shure that a pilot can and will call a more potent ship at any time if needed.

 

[Boomer Kay]

At least I know at the moment that you can not teleport your ships to you from anywhere. If I would see you switching fully fitted ships in short time in the game how it is like now, I could well assume that you have had it parked here and there is a good chance that you may consider this your home-base. I can assume as the game is working now, that it will take some reasonable time for another pilot to get into another fully fitted ship in the higher price classes whereas in insta-call times I can be pretty shure that a pilot can and will call a more potent ship at any time if needed.

Ah, so you pick weaker targets knowing that they might have their combat ships stored somewhere too far away to fight back in time.
Yea, those days will be over. What a .. pity.

If you're worried about RPKs doing that .. no need to worry. They've not yet been seen in an ASP, so they most likely do their credit farming in Solo and switch to open in PvP builds anyways.

 

[Arkadi]

I am shure you know that this is not what I am talking about. I am talking about powerplay and pvp-gameplay and chain of: but now I call my bigger ship for revenge. Picking targets is necessary if you do play powerplay or pvp-roleplay in open. I dont destroy uninformed targets. I shoot at fellow powerplay gamers who undermine in my power-territory or defend myself if I do the same in theire teritorry. Others play for theire minor-faction and fight off rivaling players. Ohters just pirate. Its a gameplay thats in the game and valid as any other.

edit: acutally I dont pvp at all outside of powerplay and training for Icarus Cup. Maybe some day I'll try to pirate and I do sympathisize with pirate gameplay. Also I have been target of pirates and was spared some times and was up to the challange other times. I dont feel grieved by this but I see it a legit gameplay.

 

[jprelph]

The problem is having to come up with flimsy, behind the scenes, activities that add no game play. The mechanic described would add a 5 min delay for no other reason than someone's imagination was troubled. To satisfy a need for lore, a useless wait is introduced. No reason for how a huge ship carrying other ships can travel 100 lys in a snap. That is what I call Handwavium. Twohandwavium would just allow the Commander in question to get on with what he wanted to do.

There is no benefit to game play for any delay that isn't associated with the actual flight mechanic. Introducing a delay would just be pandering to the immersion challenged. Any concerns about balance are moot because everyone would have access to the mechanic.

I do wonder if occasionally this forum makes some text invisible, because I have given legitimate reasons that instant ship transfer affects gameplay and a delay solves that - so trying to - again - paint this as though it's only related to immersion is disingenuous at best and clearly combative at worst.

I think it's churlish to dismiss people's opinion regarding immersion out of hand but regardless that is not what the sole issue is and there are legitimate gameplay affects with instant ship transfers.

FWIW capital ships travel huge distances very quickly so the lore of having a large ship travel relatively quickly isn't new.