Insurance rebuy rates

[babelfisch]

Personally, and I'm just spit balling, if PowerPlay is the PvP mode of choice (and open only?), any PowerPlay related deaths should be entirely, or mostly covered by the power you work for.
Unrelated deaths, such as crashes or docking snafu's aren't covered.

PvP then gets a playability boost, and the factions "economy" can also be based on how many rebuys they're forking out for per system, and overall.
You wanna attack a specific system? Then simply cost the faction a shed load of credits by killing CMDRs and NPC's.
Wanna support it? Bring in goods and boost its economy via any number of methods, trade, mining, etc.

PowerPlay conflict zones can have an overall resource per zone, and each time an ship is lost, it costs that faction some resources. No more resources means no more reinforcements, which means the other team wins. Or something along those lines...

I think I just fixed PowerPlay by accident...

Sounds reasonable.

 

[BL1P]

I think the Insurance company should follow the rule of law within the game.
And not insure Murderers.

A separate insurance should exist from Anarchy/Pirate Government systems, for the murder hobos.

 

[House0fDerp]

Ask yourself this: have you ever downgraded to a C or E class module from an A-grade for the purpose of reducing your rebuy? And I'm not talking about a temporary downgrade because your reserves are out and you don't have enough for rebuy, but instead a deliberate long-term choice to reduce rebuys over successive losses.

Why would you? The game is balanced such that things are overall gainfull (otherwise ship progression might be rendered impossible).

 

[Miko]

Losing a ship should always be a painful experience and not something taken lightly.

Some people have grinded for months or years. Do they deserve to lose it all because you think being ganked should be extra painful to those who actually honour the rebuys?

What of players who don't have infinite time to create a huge surplus of credit to cover painful rebuys?

All you lot would encourage is more combat logging with those who do it and more punishment to those who do not.

 

[Morbad]

In real life, sure.

I'd rather live in a post scarcity utopia than play a game set in one.

Personally, I'd like to see rebuy rates increase according to risk.

The rebuy would start off at 5% and increase by 5% with each ship loss.
It'd also decrease by, say, 10% each week - to the minimum of 5%.

Seems like that would encourage players to consider different (cheaper) ships for hazardous roles and curb some of the "when you're rich you can do anything!!!" mentality that exists within the game.

This is the essence of my stance as well.

If one demonstrates them to be an unwise risk, insurance costs should go up. If one rarely loses ships, they should go down.

however that works fine for my play style.... it would not work for those who just want to do arena PvP type stuff.

Such events can have rules that bar firing on someone who retracts their hardpoints or who has suffered a certain amount of hull damage.

I haven't lost a ship on live in more than a year and a half, but I have lost a fair number of duels.

Can you show me one example of someone avoiding Interdictions while AFK ?

Anyone not in SC automatically avoids interdiction, and anyone in SC who is accelerating away from any massive bodies will never be caught by an interdictor that falls in behind them.

There are a lot of non-pvpers here. Paying 40mill to rebuy my battlecutter sucks so much. I hope rebuy goes down.

If you are losing Cutters, especially outside of PvP, something is wrong with your loadouts and piloting.

I think insurance should be vastly different. We should be purchasing our policies, which cover one ship loss, at different rebuy costs (deductibles), along with additional insurance for cargo with different deductibles. A low-end policy might cost you 20% of your ship's value with no cargo coverage, up to a high-end policy that costs 1% of your ship's value and includes an 80% reimbursement for cargo value.

We can have Insurance Brokers scattered throughout the galaxy to track down and they can flavor them with some manner of "grind" as well to gain access to their services.

See, it's a perfectly Elite Idea.

I'm all for it.

Yeah let's just kill off PVP because some people don't like what another bunch do.

Nothing about PvP implies scores of rebuys. Nor are low rebuy costs automatically conducive to PvP.

The very purpose and utility of violence is lost in many cases, if it cannot be used to do harm that would deter, disable, or destroy.

I'd argue that the overwhelming majority of organic PvP would be enhanced by harsher ship loss penalties, while most sporting PvP would be largely unaffected.

 

[Weps]

I think I just fixed PowerPlay by accident...

Sandro's successor should take some notes from this guy.

I've always wanted faction financed ships.... For example it just doesn't make sense to grind for a make believe rank for a military ship... which the military should supply in the first place. I guess PP funded ships would be a nightmare to model (because you can leave PP) and wouldn't represent an ongoing incentive. But partially funded rebuys while PPing, for any PvP as well as PP related PvE, that sounds like a much nicer deal than PP modules.

I'm not much of a PP guy myself, but I'd really consider joining OOPP for the rebuy bonus alone.

I'm not sure if PP capital should be affected by the amount of rebuys incurred by pledged commanders though - this could open a new era of 5c-ing.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Just to be clear, I am talking about times where 5mil/h was considered very good hourly rate when you played the game "just right" without things like skimmer massacres and other glitches. Also for the record I refused to ferry passengers when I found out that it increases your exploration rank and that felt very wrong to me, otherwise all bus drivers in my town would be famous by now. So, at that rate, flying an high upkeep ship was deliberately setting yourself up for 6 hours setback just for one rebuy. Of course it is hard to die to NPCs, yet try doing powerplay in open like Winters did back then The standard "highwake" was a last resort, not a means to an end if you undermined in open... Otherwise you weren't undermining much

If you can earn more than 5mil/h nowadays, I'm up for it. And totally against increasing rebuy cost. One is free to wipe his account after each death or suffer a 6 gameplay hours setback being forced to re-earn rebuy if one so desires. I just find that totally unfun. That could translate to 2-3 days of playing for some, myself including.

PS: as for downgrading modules for rebuy purposes, nah, didn't downgrade per se, just didn't all A-rate it. Not the same, but still. But that was in the days of having 20mil and a FAS, days thankfully long gone.

Even 5 million an hour is more than enough to fund the continued operation of a Corvette with a 25 million rebuy. Are you seriously telling me that a semi-experienced player in a Corvette dies every 5 hours of gameplay? I consider myself to be a pretty poor combat pilot and my Corvette isn't even fully engineered these days (half of the stuff is leftovers from 2.x days), yet I'll happily go a hundred or more hours of play between rebuy even when most of that time is spent in CZs. Being knocked back 2-3 evenings of progress isn't much of an issue if it happens once ever 2-3 months, and for many players it is perhaps a once per year occurrence.

And I specifically stated "actively being suicidal" as being one of the key reasons that rebuys hurt certain players, which includes such behaviours as "not running away" as one of the examples, but also things like "fighting high-end Thargoids" and "engaging in PvP".

If being knocked back hours in terms of credit progression is a problem, then move down into a smaller ship which a cheaper rebuy. A Vulture has about 1/25th the rebuy of a Corvette, ships scale exponentially in terms of cost but their performance doesn't scale the same way so comparatively speaking you lose less progress relative to income. At the risk of joining the "git gud" brigade, if someone is dying enough in a large ship to make the rebuys significantly reduce or even prevent profit, they should probably move down into a smaller ship until they are more comfortable with flying.

 

[Morbad]

Even 5 million an hour is more than enough to fund the continued operation of a Corvette with a 25 million rebuy. Are you seriously telling me that a semi-experienced player in a Corvette dies every 5 hours of gameplay?

I have about 2k hours in a Corvette at this point (still not my most flown ship, but rapidly getting close) and my total losses of the ship are:

1. Fighting a Starport and a frag FAS simultaneously, pre-engineers.
2. Getting separated from my own wing and then being converged on by an SDC wing, with a general purpose setup, pre-engineers.
3. Fighting an SDC wing and a Contrail wing that mistook me for part of the SDC wing, simultaneously, while alone.
4. Allowing myself to be rammed by a suicidewinder while speeding and not quite making it out of the starport's weapons range in time.
5. Pushing my luck against five Nomads while alone.
6. Having a Golaith fall on top of my ship during the skimmer bug (this was reimbursed).

All easily avoidable, and none having happened since mid 2017...I could easily keep a positive cash flow in my vette, as a PvP oriented, Open only, player, on 100k an hour.

I was a veteran player long before there was a Corvette, but as this is supposed to be a difficult ship to get and part of some sort of vague progression. I'm having difficulty conceiving of how anyone who actually had any worthwhile experience before picking up the vessel could lose it often enough for rebuy cost to matter, unless they are reckless in the extreme.

 

[Brrokk]

Even 5 million an hour is more than enough to fund the continued operation of a Corvette with a 25 million rebuy. Are you seriously telling me that a semi-experienced player in a Corvette dies every 5 hours of gameplay? I consider myself to be a pretty poor combat pilot and my Corvette isn't even fully engineered these days (half of the stuff is leftovers from 2.x days), yet I'll happily go a hundred or more hours of play between rebuy even when most of that time is spent in CZs. Being knocked back 2-3 evenings of progress isn't much of an issue if it happens once ever 2-3 months, and for many players it is perhaps a once per year occurrence.

And I specifically stated "actively being suicidal" as being one of the key reasons that rebuys hurt certain players, which includes such behaviours as "not running away" as one of the examples, but also things like "fighting high-end Thargoids" and "engaging in PvP".

If being knocked back hours in terms of credit progression is a problem, then move down into a smaller ship which a cheaper rebuy. A Vulture has about 1/25th the rebuy of a Corvette, ships scale exponentially in terms of cost but their performance doesn't scale the same way so comparatively speaking you lose less progress relative to income. At the risk of joining the "git gud" brigade, if someone is dying enough in a large ship to make the rebuys significantly reduce or even prevent profit, they should probably move down into a smaller ship until they are more comfortable with flying.

Yes. One thing I like about ED is that you hardly ever die unless you made a bad decision. Even against Thargoid Interceptors a rebuy means you pushed your luck and didn't know when to run.

 

[Stealthie]

Yes. One thing I like about ED is that you hardly ever die unless you made a bad decision.

And, of course, the real trick is understanding and acknowledging those bad decisions.

I've got something like 60 rebuys in 3 years and, genuinely, I think there's been a grand total of one occasion where I lost a ship despite "doing everything right".
Every other time, there's been something I did wrong, did badly or misjudged.

 

[Miko]

Or they could bring that Ironman mode they kept teasing for years.... The "cutthroat" galaxy would make much more sense in a hardcore ruleset.

No thanks. This game has swallowed years of my life. Erase it all to an Iron Man mode. No bloody thanks to that!

I got destroyed instantly by a station when a wingman hit it with fire, I didn't even have my weapons deployed and was sat still. Iron mode mode would have a field day with that one.