Insurance should cover the cargo too.
- Thread starter Prolak Grey
- Start date
The trouble with cargo insurance on the same "pay 5%" approach as ship insurance is that it would either be useless in many cases or give an incredibly easy money copying exploit.
The big question is: if you lose your cargo before your ship is destroyed - cargo hatch malfunctions, hatchbreakers - or, indeed, if you lose your cargo without your ship being destroyed ... should insurance cover that?
If the answer is no, then you can still lose huge amounts of money in any case where you're attacked by a pirate who actually tries to do their job. (Griefers would specifically start carrying hatchbreakers ; pirates would be considered worse than outright murderers)
If the answer is yes then there's an utterly trivial cooperative exploit where player 1 buys expensive cargo with a cheap ship (Tritium, Gold, etc.), player 2 hatchbreaks the cargo and then destroys player 1, player 1 gets 95% of the value back while player 2 has 100% of the value, repeat for massive profit.
And if you lose some cargo to a pirate, but only get paid cargo insurance if you also lose your ship, that adds a really silly incentive to avoid trying to get out alive. But if you get paid regardless that opens up other exploits.
Secondarily, there's also a question about what value should be paid back to the player for insured cargo. If it's the value they acquired it for, then cargo insurance helps traders but does absolutely nothing for miners who are risking far more in terms of cost and time if destroyed. If it's the galactic average, then there's a whole pile of goods where buying them, launching, and boost-ramming the station would actually turn a significant profit.
Interestingly, the original game UI in the 1.0 release did have a "cargo insurance" line. It hung around for quite a while saying "none" and then disappeared, presumably because Frontier couldn't figure out a way to maake it work that was actually worthwhile.
The big question is: if you lose your cargo before your ship is destroyed - cargo hatch malfunctions, hatchbreakers - or, indeed, if you lose your cargo without your ship being destroyed ... should insurance cover that?
If the answer is no, then you can still lose huge amounts of money in any case where you're attacked by a pirate who actually tries to do their job. (Griefers would specifically start carrying hatchbreakers ; pirates would be considered worse than outright murderers)
If the answer is yes then there's an utterly trivial cooperative exploit where player 1 buys expensive cargo with a cheap ship (Tritium, Gold, etc.), player 2 hatchbreaks the cargo and then destroys player 1, player 1 gets 95% of the value back while player 2 has 100% of the value, repeat for massive profit.
And if you lose some cargo to a pirate, but only get paid cargo insurance if you also lose your ship, that adds a really silly incentive to avoid trying to get out alive. But if you get paid regardless that opens up other exploits.
Secondarily, there's also a question about what value should be paid back to the player for insured cargo. If it's the value they acquired it for, then cargo insurance helps traders but does absolutely nothing for miners who are risking far more in terms of cost and time if destroyed. If it's the galactic average, then there's a whole pile of goods where buying them, launching, and boost-ramming the station would actually turn a significant profit.
Interestingly, the original game UI in the 1.0 release did have a "cargo insurance" line. It hung around for quite a while saying "none" and then disappeared, presumably because Frontier couldn't figure out a way to maake it work that was actually worthwhile.
What should happen is you pay an escrow to take that mission, which is held until successful completion. If you fail because you lose, steal, jettison or otherwise no longer possess the cargo, you don't get it back. That's normally how this stuff works.
That way, there's a risk- reward to lower value cargo.
Edit: and rewards proportional to the value of the cargo should just be ditched.
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I disagree.
In real life you have an insurance that covers the transported goods, but for game sake this is removed.
Then for game sake the penalty should be removed too.
The "gamey" motivation must be correctly balanced.
No, I complain about an unbalance that is poorly defended as "it's a game".
So you're aware of how either massively exploitable this would be, or alternately, how it would eradicate piracy, right?
Oops.
But we have a wonderful C&P system in ED... oops...
Deleted member 115407
D
I really don't understand what's wrong with it.
The majority of players who seem to have a problem with it just tend to be careless players who don't pay attention to what they're doing.
What the OP is looking for is reduced consequences. Rebuy costs are low as is, relative to the ease of getting the credit resource. It's the easiest to get resource in the game. FDev seem to want to remedy that a little with the run into EDO, by reducing mining income. As someone who enjoys mining i think it is long overdue.
Personally I think rebuy costs should be increased. Failure should sting, what we may disagree on, is the degree. I don't support the notion of no insurance whatsoever, and when you lose your boat it's gone, as the mat grind is far too onerous. It's Farmville bad, and in my opinion garbage/lazy game design.
Think i've lost one ship to PvE and it was a type 9, but wait;
In Colonia, and i needed Trit, when the cost was insane. So i loaded a T9 from a local seller and plotted a route back to my carrier. Small children have a way of needing immediate attention, i have those as well as a carrier, so i had to make an interdiction. When i returned to my PC my T9 no longer existed. Neither did the 750 tons of Trit. I don't remember the exact cost of the the Trit, but i had a couple of minutes worth of an empty/stunned feeling, followed by; well at least I felt something lol.
TLDR: Consequence in game is as valuable as reward, and tie down small children.
Personally I think rebuy costs should be increased. Failure should sting, what we may disagree on, is the degree. I don't support the notion of no insurance whatsoever, and when you lose your boat it's gone, as the mat grind is far too onerous. It's Farmville bad, and in my opinion garbage/lazy game design.
Think i've lost one ship to PvE and it was a type 9, but wait;
In Colonia, and i needed Trit, when the cost was insane. So i loaded a T9 from a local seller and plotted a route back to my carrier. Small children have a way of needing immediate attention, i have those as well as a carrier, so i had to make an interdiction. When i returned to my PC my T9 no longer existed. Neither did the 750 tons of Trit. I don't remember the exact cost of the the Trit, but i had a couple of minutes worth of an empty/stunned feeling, followed by; well at least I felt something lol.
TLDR: Consequence in game is as valuable as reward, and tie down small children.
Yep. It's got a few rough patches sure, but it's good.
Now, rendering an entire career non functional in game, that's just crazy.
Cargo insurance is a separate thing from vehicle insurance in the real world. Paying a "fine" for the loss of cargo can happen in the real world as well. So both of these concepts are perfectly legitimate in a "sim". Personally, I don't see the need for cargo insurance. You really have to screw up to get blown up. I'm trade Elite, a few hundred hours in the game, and I've only been pulled out of SC twice out of hundreds of runs. And neither of those were while I was flying a T9.
for being stubborn. Don't just buy anything they say (and I mean that). OP: Just save up some cash and you'll be fine, apart from your ego.I think this 'game' could have been a great simulation, but since you all are happy for it to be gamey,, your loss.
Seems like the OP wants a risk free experience.
Combat pilots risk losing their bounties and combat bonds until they disengage and trade them in.
Explorers risk losing all their data (sometime months worth) until they reach port and trade it in.
Mission runners risk failure penalties, loss of rep, etc. unless they complete on time.
Why does trading need a free pass?
Combat pilots risk losing their bounties and combat bonds until they disengage and trade them in.
Explorers risk losing all their data (sometime months worth) until they reach port and trade it in.
Mission runners risk failure penalties, loss of rep, etc. unless they complete on time.
Why does trading need a free pass?
T9 = More Risk, More Profit to be made. (only flew the T9 for two missions b4 selling her)
Corvette = Eazy Trader with more boom boom.
I fly the latter because I`m a Venus flytrap, Kuching.
Corvette = Eazy Trader with more boom boom.
I fly the latter because I`m a Venus flytrap, Kuching.
Because every cargo ship out there right now, in 2021 has cargo insurance. Hauling cargo is not about risk. For traders, getting ganked IS the risk.
The Evergreen has insurance for getting grounded and blocking the Suez canal for several days.
If you want the truth, combat ships should not qualify for ANY insurance. Maybe the faction you are fighting for helps you, maybe not, but insurance, no.
You want risk, your insurance costs should go up every time you have a claim.
The Evergreen has insurance for getting grounded and blocking the Suez canal for several days.
If you want the truth, combat ships should not qualify for ANY insurance. Maybe the faction you are fighting for helps you, maybe not, but insurance, no.
You want risk, your insurance costs should go up every time you have a claim.
Let's just go for it.
I win everything, everytime insurance.
I never fail. I never lose.
I'm insured.
I win everything, everytime insurance.
I never fail. I never lose.
I'm insured.
This is a game, not RL, so for years now, FD has had the game provide “insurance“ for ships only, no policies for this and that. That’s the way it is.
Many have desired that the game should have this or that, many have been disappointed and remain so.
Welcome to the club.
Put your thoughts on insurance in as a suggestion to FD.
Good luck.
Many have desired that the game should have this or that, many have been disappointed and remain so.
Welcome to the club.
Put your thoughts on insurance in as a suggestion to FD.
Good luck.