Invasion Discussion

Obi Wan Naboo

Obi Wan Naboo
With the current meta "favoring" full systems, I see more and more invasions happening yet some of the mechanics behind them elude me. I couldn't find a comprehensive and up to date discussion on the topic so I though I'll start one.

What I think I know:
  • when all inhabited standard systems in a radius (or cube) of 20 lys have at least 7 factions, regular expansion turns into an invasion
  • the invading faction immediately starts a war with the lowest ranked non native faction in the system
  • the loser of the war should leave the system immediately, but that does not happen due to a bug
  • invasion follows some basic expansion rules, i.e. can't invade lore systems like Sol, probably regular permit locked systems neither and systems that the invading faction has retreated from before
What I would like to know:
  • the possible range of the invasion, since I just witnessed an invasion from a system 25 ly afar
  • the priorities invasion may follow, due to the fact that there were systems closer and even with less then 7 factions (about 23 ly) from the faction mentioned above
  • the source of the invasion, since in theory the "happiest" system of a faction may be the source of the invasion instead of the one crossing the 75% threshold (info may be obsolete)
  • does expansion still fail with no targets in 20 ly range, then doubles the range to 40 ly, then turns into invasion ? (info may be obsolete)
  • any other info or observations you guys may have gathered on the topic since 3.3
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Obi Wan Naboo said:
  • the possible range of the invasion, since I just witnessed an invasion from a system 25 ly afar
  • the priorities invasion may follow, due to the fact that there were systems closer and even with less then 7 factions (about 23 ly) from the faction mentioned above
  • the source of the invasion, since in theory the "happiest" system of a faction may be the source of the invasion instead of the one crossing the 75% threshold (info may be obsolete)
  • does expansion still fail with no targets in 20 ly range, then doubles the range to 40 ly, then turns into invasion ? (info may be obsolete)
  • any other info or observations you guys may have gathered on the topic since 3.3
Click to expand...
Range: standard 20 LY cube that normal expansions use, so up to 34 LY straight line distance if you go to a corner.
Priorities: it used to just be the closest with an eligible faction, subject to the "previous retreat" deprioritisation. There is increasing evidence that this has changed recently and it now targets the eligible faction in range with the lowest influence [1] - "previous retreat" deprioritisation may or may not still apply.
Source: Same as for a normal expansion - whichever system crossed 75% first
Failure: Expansion will now only fail if there are no eligible targets for invasion in range. This will then double the range of the next expansion to a 40 LY cube.

[1] For those commenting that invasion to attack a controlling non-native faction was a bit extreme, this change if confirmed should make it almost impossible to do without invading everywhere else first.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
I'm new to this, but I kinda wish the cap on faction count was based on population. I can see a system with a billion people living on multiple planets and stations supporting seven or more factions, but these little systems with 1000 people and a single outpost should be limited to three or four factions maximum. IMHO, for the sake of immersion...
 

Obi Wan Naboo

Obi Wan Naboo
Old Duck said:
I'm new to this, but I kinda wish the cap on faction count was based on population. I can see a system with a billion people living on multiple planets and stations supporting seven or more factions, but these little systems with 1000 people and a single outpost should be limited to three or four factions maximum. IMHO, for the sake of immersion...
Click to expand...
This kinda makes sense, but it is impossible to implement now without checking countless systems and removing factions manually. Most systems already have 4-5 native factions + 2-3 foreign ones. Reversing the effects of the invasion bug, i.e. over saturated systems, has a much higher priority yet FD hasn't come up with a solution yet.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Retropolitan said:
For what it's worth, we've just won an invasion war against a player faction and after yesterday's cooldown day that faction has disappeared from the system. So.... fixed?
Click to expand...
It changed to "Fixed" in the issue tracker on Wednesday, but yours is the first report I've seen to confirm that (my candidate is a few days out yet)

Excellent news if so, though it's going to take a while for the systems stuck at 8 by it to shake out.
 

Dommarraa

Dommarraa
Confirmation. Have witnessed an invasion conflict that ended on Wednesday 16th has concluded with the loser exiting.
Not sure how existing systems with 8 factions will be resolved, but at least the exit process is now working.
 

Alshain

Alshain
I can confirm they do not. The bug is still present. I witnessed an Invasion by another player faction (they didn't want in, accidental) into one of our systems just last week and they are still there despite losing.
 

Obi Wan Naboo

Obi Wan Naboo
Alshain said:
I can confirm they do not. The bug is still present. I witnessed an Invasion by another player faction (they didn't want in, accidental) into one of our systems just last week and they are still there despite losing.
Click to expand...
The fix was probably implemented 2 days ago (Thursday 17.10). Everything that happened before should not count.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
I noticed the bug was marked as fixed on Wednesday - and it definitely wasn't fixed on Monday evening. So either Tuesday or Wednesday for the fix, I think.
 

AnvadicA

A
Ian Doncaster said:
Priorities: it used to just be the closest with an eligible faction, subject to the "previous retreat" deprioritisation. There is increasing evidence that this has changed recently and it now targets the eligible faction in range with the lowest influence [1] - "previous retreat" deprioritisation may or may not still apply.
Click to expand...
Any updates for this current thinking?
Am I correct in undrestanding, that my faction will invade (if no room for expansion) the closest system and fight with a non-native faction in a closest system?
Or do they search in 20 ly cube for a system with the lowest position of the none-native faction?
 

Kissamies

Kissamies
AnvadicA said:
Any updates for this current thinking?
Am I correct in undrestanding, that my faction will invade (if no room for expansion) the closest system and fight with a non-native faction in a closest system?
Or do they search in 20 ly cube for a system with the lowest position of the none-native faction?
Click to expand...
Our faction's most recent invasions have gone to the edges of the cube, like it was doing these big leaps to find less-crowded areas for regular expansion. Might be that it was simply targeting systems with low influence non-native factions, though.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
AnvadicA said:
Any updates for this current thinking?
Am I correct in undrestanding, that my faction will invade (if no room for expansion) the closest system and fight with a non-native faction in a closest system?
Or do they search in 20 ly cube for a system with the lowest position of the none-native faction?
Click to expand...
The "search for lowest non-native" option seems to explain recent invasions much better than "closest available" would.
 

Kissamies

Kissamies
Our faction's expansion today seems to confirm. I had been working on the assumption that this is how it works, bolstering low foreign factions on unwanted systems, but I missed one with 2.6% influence. I noticed it yesterday and tried to raise it, but apparently it goes by the value before the tick and it was too late. The invasion went there even though its 5.7% now.
 

Rebel Yell

Rebel Yell
Found this thread after digging into the forum... I believe this has to be put under the most flawed BGS mechanic. What happened to us in one of our system (Wori) is just another confirm of what I believe:

Our faction (non-native) was at 48% with 6 factions and 2 non-native already at war.

When the invasion (from Oduduni) started, we dropped by 22% to match 26% of the "invaders" and we've been put at war as we were the only one non-native faction available for that (the others were already at war), risking to lose the system and our main station.

We won the war, we are now at 30% (so we lost 18% ballpark in 4 days) with the invader at 22% and still present as 8th faction in the system.

Even if we did win the war, we've lost a lot of influence (risk/reward profile says we've been exposed to tremendous downside risk without any kind of reward)... moreover the invader is still in our system.
 
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