Is engineering the source of all evil? (long post)

Well you are right of course. Then again - how would some dude see that the other ship is engineered to the meta and will outfly him in every flight characteristic when all they know is vanilla ship performance. Is it too much to expect that the overall "character" of a ship doesn't get curbstomped by anything engineers?
Fly stock Cobra to Shin and expect not to lose to any other ship...

Yes, should've jumped with high wake target already planned. But - running away all the time is kinda lame too.
That's why you have to engineer ship like everyone else did.
 
Well you are right of course. Then again - how would some dude see that the other ship is engineered to the meta and will outfly him in every flight characteristic when all they know is vanilla ship performance. Is it too much to expect that the overall "character" of a ship doesn't get curbstomped by anything engineers?

Well... it did happen in Shinrarta Dezhra - the home system of the Elites *()
So they did managed to reach Elite status, that should imply some basic knowledge ( or watching certain YT influencers 😂 )


*(I dont find Engineering and the huge gap it introduced as much as an issue as the fact that one can be ganked in the Pilots Federation home system, but... oh well! 🤷‍♂️ )
 
Time for me to break this down because it is rife with misconceptions and a lot of problems.


=>Stock Cobra Mk.3
=>Flies to one of the most populated and player filled areas limited to ONLY ELITE PLAYERS in a Cobra Mk.3
=>Expects nothing to happen... What?? That makes no sense.

When interdicted by a CMDR submit.

You have STOCK THRUSTERS... And you try to boost... From one of the FASTEST STRAIGHT LINE SHIPS IN THE GAME

Which is why you high wake RIGHT OFF THE BAT...

Which is why you pre-plot a route out of system and have a "select next system on route" key. Fly unprepared, suffer the consequences.

I doubt it was a pacifier but ok. If it took 5 seconds, consider not flying actual paper. Consider not crutching on NPC cops that wouldn't save you anyways.

Wow... You fly a STOCK KEELBACK. This is starting to make sense. Consider flying a better ship lol.

Because NPCs are like actually potato.

Again NPCs are potato and you are crutching on system security

Because players are the following
1.) Smarter
2.) Built in ships that are, surprise surprise, faster and more maneuverable than both your cobra, and the NPC anaconda. It doesn't matter that Cobra>Keelback. It matters that Keelback>Anaconda and Mamba>Cobra.
3.) NPCs do not fly FA-Off
4.) Players do not use turret weapons.
5.) NPCs do not use builds built specifically to kill you as fast as possible and only win one fight. Similarly, Pirate Anacondas are actually largely filled with limpets, cargo space, point defense, etc. as opposed to HRP, MRP, SCB, and SB.

Understand now that 1 Player>>>2 NPCs?

Wrong. NPC aim is near perfect because they use turrets. Pip management is also nearly perfect for players. The builds are also a major difference, see above.

Wrong. Humans can use Grom Bombs, Ion Mines, FSD missiles, etc. Also, FA-off, and better engines, and NPCs also do not know how to sub-target drives or FSD.

So I shouldn't be able to nail a stock sidewinder with 5 Plasma Accelerators and expect an instant kill? rubbish. Stats should allow skill to shine, not allow a lack of skill to crutch.

Wrong. You'd get melted in 3.5 magazines not 2. Overcharged isnt a big change in damage. It now takes 10 seconds to gank you with gimballed frags and not 5 congrats.

You do because you're not arguing an effective point.

No because system security takes 30 seconds or so to arrive even in high sec. You will still die before that.

No they wouldn't for the same reason you don't feel threatened by anacondas in a keelback.

Wrong. These same people would cry if they lost their point and click simulator haha go brr pve corvettes.

And that is a choice you need to make which is associated with consequences you will suffer should you not do that.

Want to know how to make a ship "pvp ready"? Equip a shield generator (Blue works, prismatic is best). Then attach 2-3 shield boosters. Engineer both shield and boosters to G3. Bam you just bought yourself a free high wake from a gank.

And no ships would be fun to fly because skill would become irrelevant.

They would because then they wouldn't be invincible.

but the Anacondas were NPCs

They would still have no chance to fight a PvPer. I have killed so many PvE corvettes in my FDL that decided to try a scrap with me.

YOU DONT NEED A META SHIP TO SURVIVE 15 SECONDS TO GET YOUR JUMP OFF GOOD LORD

NPCs will never be a threat. Ever. You cannot die in this game unless you actively choose to. No matter how you dice it it will always come down to your choices.

So then you don't actually play open because you refuse to do engineering and are afraid of people that put in the time to do it?

Which is ridiculous. How about I take away all the credits you worked for? Totally fair that you worked for it and now its not yours anymore.

Well I mean thrusters are a good way of slowing down. I believe that coming to a stop is intended by the devs. Braking is an important part of accelerating.

Its optional. So is PvP. Why is this even a problem

You're completely off-base here.


There used to be a place called "Gank Evasion Academy". The test was to escape a gank in an unengineered Cobra Mk.3. Want to know how many people passed? Basically everyone that took the test passed. This completely negates your point. Just because you are unable to do so doesn't mean that it is impossible. Just because you think its imbalanced doesn't make it so.
Whoa geez relax.

BTW, I mostly fly a PvE Corvette. In Solo. That's what I enjoy. Sue me.

Engineering used to be worse than it is. There were some absolutely broken modules in the old system that took an awful lot of grinding and RNG to get. They still exist in the game (wrongly IMO).

I honestly wouldn't mind if engineering never existed except for certain non-combat modules like FSD. No weapon engineering, thrusters, shields, nothing like that.

I also don't mind that we DO have engineering though. Everyone has the potential to build their ships equally. It's not like the old system where RNG would favor certain people.
 
Back in '14 before engineering reared its ugly head we had SCB spamming, there has always been issues with the shop design not all engineering related. It made it a LOT worse but not on its own
 
Back in '14 before engineering reared its ugly head we had SCB spamming, there has always been issues with the shop design not all engineering related. It made it a LOT worse but not on its own
I just mentioned it some other thread:
Basic ship design wasn't so hot. The internals just meant bigger = better and minmaxer's delight is to dial such stuff to 11.
Engineering power creep is ridiculous on its own, but coupled with the outfitting it broke the game. Should have been either of the two, not both.
 
Don't mind that we DO have engineering though. Everyone has the potential to build their ships equally. It's not like the old system where RNG would favor certain people.
But the issue with the old system is "they got to keep those engineered modules", there should have been a module reset after the major changes letting them keep them is just adding an even bigger imbalance.
 
But the issue with the old system is "they got to keep those engineered modules", there should have been a module reset after the major changes letting them keep them is just adding an even bigger imbalance.
I totally agree. They should have been reset to the new max G5 (or whatever the module's max is). They made a mistake allowing them to remain.
 
I totally agree. They should have been reset to the new max G5 (or whatever the module's max is). They made a mistake allowing them to remain.
FD effectively nerfed all the idiots like me who didn't duplicate rolls like our esteemed PvP community did, not sure why they didn't put the kibosh on the legacy crap.
 
FD effectively nerfed all the idiots like me who didn't duplicate rolls like our esteemed PvP community did, not sure why they didn't put the kibosh on the legacy crap.
It was this that caused even more issues with PvP than was present before, a complete reset was the only way forwards really but they wanted to "keep everyone sweet" and so we now have modules on some ships that others will never be able to get this creating an imbalance.
 
I will agree with the interdiction system being broken. When we are half anf half and I have that center reticle blue 70 % of the time hardly straying I shouldn't see the red bar climbing lol. I literally lose with my interdiction symbol blue dead center. I don't care what but if I'm doing that I should be able to affect the outcome somewhat

Edit: this was vs a player(fdl) in my engineered vulture that I low waked 3x times, he pulled me 3x times before I finally highwaked with 3% hull lol. Each time he pulled me I tried harder and it seemed there was nothing I could do. I was literally testing pvp interdiction and it seems like a free win for the attacker
 
You nailed it. ED was almost well balanced until version 2.1. With the engineers the whole pvp experience were just broken. Kidding game mechanics and technologies annoyances rule the player interaction.
 
I will agree with the interdiction system being broken. When we are half anf half and I have that center reticle blue 70 % of the time hardly straying I shouldn't see the red bar climbing lol. I literally lose with my interdiction symbol blue dead center. I don't care what but if I'm doing that I should be able to affect the outcome somewhat

Edit: this was vs a player(fdl) in my engineered vulture that I low waked 3x times, he pulled me 3x times before I finally highwaked with 3% hull lol. Each time he pulled me I tried harder and it seemed there was nothing I could do. I was literally testing pvp interdiction and it seems like a free win for the attacker
Desync and bugs are not unheard of in ED, and it actually seems to be easier to interdict someone than evading a player interdiction, but it's absolutely not impossible, you just need to be much better at the minigame than the interdictor. It's just not recommended to try to evade if you are in a weak ship because of the long FSD cooldown if you happen to lose. Sadly I don't have a video, but after a quick youtube search I found this funny one:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr3L3EeYRyw

Salome would be still alive if she had been this good at it I guess. :)
 
You nailed it. ED was almost well balanced until version 2.1. With the engineers the whole pvp experience were just broken. Kidding game mechanics and technologies annoyances rule the player interaction.
The fix for SCB tanking was engineering, the fix for engineering is releasing the Thargoids, finally the fix for Thargoids is AX and guardian weapons ;)

Even the weapon systems and back story is patched beyond recognition lol
 
It was this that caused even more issues with PvP than was present before, a complete reset was the only way forwards really but they wanted to "keep everyone sweet" and so we now have modules on some ships that others will never be able to get this creating an imbalance.
It's not the only imbalance, maybe just the most ridiculous, but I doubt it would matter much - it'd be a token gesture that FD cares about it but I don't think they actually care one bit. Maybe how quick you can grind the power juice but not the amount of juice. When I asked Sandro about balance in some AMA round he did the answer with the different ships aren't balanced either yadayada - so basically they don't give it much thought. Unless some clan makes a ruckus and successfully blackmails them over social media maybe.
 
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