Is FA off the answer for combat flying?

Sylow

Sylow
RymdLazer said:
The ship that got me to use fa-off was the T9. So lumbering and slow so it was natural to start turning off fa to make turns a bit less sluggish.
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There are ships where FA off is essential in combat, that is true. But I would not advise learning to fight in such a ship.
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I mean, when I take my T10 out, I also use FAoff a lot. When in my Krait, I use it rarely, while actually doing a lot of reverse-boosting. My Chieftain basically doesn't even know what FAoff is. It turns so well and drifts a lot all by itself. Situations where I need FAoff basically never happen in that ship.
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Shiro Akai said:
I have rad good things about FDL, bought one, like the ship and plan on using it. maybe bit overkill for a learning purpose, one CMDR suggested Vulture/DBS range and now I'm hesitating.
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The Vulture actually even is the upper limit of what I'd recommend for somebody learning to fight. It already is a bit on the "lazy pilot" side. It's rather durable, making people trust their shields too much. Also, it's not exceptionally fast but turns very well, which means the ship doesn't force you to learn to turn on time and properly. It compensates for many mistakes.
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So indeed, it's a very capable ship. It supports the pilot a lot, but it teaches less than other small ships.
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Shiro Akai said:
BTW - question: what is the most generic pip setting for combat?
I know management is a key but I must start from something.
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It depends. When fighting many enemies, I usually switch between 4/2/0 and 4/0/2.
(That is Sys/Engines/Weapons. )
When fighting just one enemy, I also use the above two when the enemy is facing me, but as soon as I am out of its firing arc, I use 0/2/4 or 0/4/2, depending on my needs. It's in my eyes one of the most essential things to learn and requires experience: to know when to use which setting and to switch to it on time.
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The most important thing to remember is that sys needs to be put there before you get hit. Only then it reduces damage. For weapons and engines, you can often afford to work with 0 pips for a while. That's what you have the spare energy in the capacitor for, anyway. Just make sure you put a few pips there when you can spare them, to recharge it.
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KillaALF

K
Shiro Akai said:
Thanks for that. Now if you would share a bit more about "good pip control", please? In general.
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Basic principle:
When under fire - more pips to systems to boost shield strength
When firing yourself - more pips to weapons
When manoeuvring/boosting - more pips to engines

Of course in combat this is rather fluid and you will often be in situations where 2 or all 3 of the above conditions apply, so you will have to prioritize. It also depends on the ship you're using - for example in a Vulture more pips to engines barely changes its agility whereas in other ships the effect is much more pronounced.

I'd set up a cheap combat ship (Eagle, ViperMK3) and practice, practice, practice. Or do the combat training missions, you'll risk nothing if you do those.
 

Cmdr Nemo LXXI

Cmdr Nemo LXXI
I find it ironic how one expects a combat built Beluga to handle the same as a small fighter. When the small fighter is designed to do what it does and a Belug is altered from it design to do. I know of no passenger bus in the world that can handle a driving course set up for a Volkswagon Beetle. Where as when the shoe is on the other foot, the Beetle could handle any course set up for the bus.
 

TheMegaTurnip

Banned
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Cmdr Nemo LXXI said:
I find it ironic how one expects a combat built Beluga to handle the same as a small fighter. When the small fighter is designed to do what it does and a Belug is altered from it design to do. I know of no passenger bus in the world that can handle a driving course set up for a Volkswagon Beetle. Where as when the shoe is on the other foot, the Beetle could handle any course set up for the bus.
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Well to be fair.. Vacum dynamics are'nt particularly well covered in most educational curriculums.
 

Krash

Krash
Sylow said:
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The Vulture actually even is the upper limit of what I'd recommend for somebody learning to fight. It already is a bit on the "lazy pilot" side. It's rather durable, making people trust their shields too much. Also, it's not exceptionally fast but turns very well, which means the ship doesn't force you to learn to turn on time and properly. It compensates for many mistakes.
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So indeed, it's a very capable ship. It supports the pilot a lot, but it teaches less than other small ships.
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Sold. I've been thinking about working on a vulture build for weeks. I need compensation!
 

Slange Lands

Slange Lands
jasonbarron said:
Learning faoff transformed this game for me. Probably the reason I put so many hours into it.
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I have experienced the same. Once you have internalized everything you can do with FA on properly, i.e. all thrusters, blue zone, etc., you will want to try FA off. Certainly not necessarily for being able to kill well, but simply for the sheer joy of flying. It's about being able to make your ship dance; flying becomes an exquisite ballet. With FA off, the shackles are torn off. In my dreams I am often flying or trying to fly. I guess that's why I love ED.

For me it's no longer about being able to kill anymore. I just wanna fly.

o7
 

Han Zulu

Han Zulu
Slange Lands said:
I have experienced the same. Once you have internalized everything you can do with FA on properly, i.e. all thrusters, blue zone, etc., you will want to try FA off. Certainly not necessarily for being able to kill well, but simply for the sheer joy of flying. It's about being able to make your ship dance; flying becomes an exquisite ballet. With FA off, the shackles are torn off. In my dreams I am often flying or trying to fly. I guess that's why I love ED.

For me it's no longer about being able to kill anymore. I just wanna fly.

o7
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Today, I managed to fly my explora'conda (slow, sluggish, not much of thrust in any direction because of engineering) in FAOff both into a coriolis, land, and later take off and fly out, and I don't think I even hit the mailslot. Somehow, it was easier to land this fridge than my imperial courier. It's such a feeling when you nail a landing.
 

777Driver

777Driver
Han Zulu said:
Today, I managed to fly my explora'conda (slow, sluggish, not much of thrust in any direction because of engineering) in FAOff both into a coriolis, land, and later take off and fly out, and I don't think I even hit the mailslot. Somehow, it was easier to land this fridge than my imperial courier. It's such a feeling when you nail a landing.
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Much easier to learn FA-OFF in a big heavy ship. Only thing that makes the Anaconda tricky is the limited visibility.

Cmdr RymdLazer has the right idea, use a big ship, forget combat for a bit, just learn to fly, once it becomes natural you can handle the smaller ships with ease.

The main obstacle cmdrs will initially have to deal with is learning not to over-correct (Also a problem when flying in reality) Big lumbering ships are extremely forgiving to over correcting, it allows you to just focus on thruster management and pointing in your intended direction :)
 
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Krash

Krash
777Driver said:
Much easier to learn FA-OFF in a big heavy ship. Only thing that makes the Anaconda tricky is the limited visibility.

Cmdr RymdLazer has the right idea, use a big ship, forget combat for a bit, just learn to fly, once it becomes natural you can handle the smaller ships with ease.
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Do you guys put mouse on "relative on"? I tried that for about 30 seconds and found it unbearable when FA was on.
 

777Driver

777Driver
Krash said:
Do you guys put mouse on "relative on"? I tried that for about 30 seconds and found it unbearable when FA was on.
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Haven't tried using the mouse, Just HOTAS/Pedals. I was under the impression it is easier to use the mouse, hence why so popular with many PVP guys.
 

Slange Lands

Slange Lands
777Driver said:
Much easier to learn FA-OFF in a big heavy ship. Only thing that makes the Anaconda tricky is the limited visibility.

Cmdr RymdLazer has the right idea, use a big ship, forget combat for a bit, just learn to fly, once it becomes natural you can handle the smaller ships with ease.

The main obstacle cmdrs will initially have to deal with is learning not to over-correct (Also a problem when flying in reality) Big lumbering ships are extremely forgiving to over correcting, it allows you to just focus on thruster management and pointing in your intended direction :)
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Agreed. Two days ago I tried FA off in CQC with an Eagle and I crashed and spun all over the place. It was glorious. Why? Because I knew that if I ever get better at completely flying FA off,I will be able to turn faster than ever! I started out in my Corvette. Now I am training in my FDL. It's a slow but worthwhile process for me.

FA off requires very many tiny adjustments. Yank and Bank are impossible. I had to decrease my joystick sensitivity from 20 to 1 in my T.A.R.G.E.T. software.
 

Madrax573

Madrax573
As a fully FA-off pilot I try to encourage everyone to learn FA-off. It's a space game after all not a planes in space game :p

I fly FA-off more as a lifestyle thing rather than an efficiency thing. And my group is always willing to assist anyone who wants to learn FA-off for whatever reason. Come join our discord (link in sig) if you are wanting some help on the Fa-off thing :)
 

ShadowWolf Kell

ShadowWolf Kell
777Driver said:
Much easier to learn FA-OFF in a big heavy ship. Only thing that makes the Anaconda tricky is the limited visibility.

Cmdr RymdLazer has the right idea, use a big ship, forget combat for a bit, just learn to fly, once it becomes natural you can handle the smaller ships with ease.

The main obstacle cmdrs will initially have to deal with is learning not to over-correct (Also a problem when flying in reality) Big lumbering ships are extremely forgiving to over correcting, it allows you to just focus on thruster management and pointing in your intended direction :)
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This is why the FGS is actually a pretty solid choice for learning FA Off. It's sturdy, packs a punch, and can bring along an SLF if that's your fancy. It's a bit on the slow side, but it handles like a big ship and is FA off friendly. It's a slim ship, so you're not as worried about crashing into stuff as you would be with a very large ship. With the changes to the Orca, that might be an alternative too.

The other alternative is the Viper Mk III or IV. If you can master FA off with the Viper Mk III/IV, you can FA off anything. You'll find they become surprisingly more nimble with FA off than they are with FA on.
 

Sylow

Sylow
777Driver said:
Much easier to learn FA-OFF in a big heavy ship. Only thing that makes the Anaconda tricky is the limited visibility.
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You are right there. When learning FA off, it's actually easier in a bigger ship. Small ships often are too sensitive and just lead to a vicious cycle of overcompensating. But I still stick to what I stated above: for many ships, being able to use FAoff is not essential for combat.
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For many it helps, but generally you can do well enough in small and medium (and even some large, e.g. Clipper ) ships without having to use FAoff. It's not flying excellence, you won't win a PvP tournament that way, but for handling NPCs it generally is sufficient. Thus I stick to my statement, that FA off is not essential for combat here and other abilities (e.g. pip management and thruster handling) are much more important to learn first.
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