Is FD slowly shifting focus away from ED?

[Alex Brentnall]

When have they EVER done that?

No, they're not SLOWLY shifting focus, they've been QUICKLY shifting focus to each new game they've come up with.

ED is a 'cash cow', low growth but high profit. You know what happens to cash cows? They get milked. Usually to fund other projects. *COUGH*planetcoaster*COUGH*Jurassicworld*COUGH*

Which is of course why they are giving us another year of updates for free because they want to milk us for everything we've got.. Sorry, story does not check out at all.



Since this post has descended into Anarchy - To the OP specifically: I think the reason is that editing existing features is harder than adding new ones. Development 101. Look how other games fare when changing engines or physics models or whatever. Often it's quicker and easier to start from scratch.
What was announced is what they intend to achieve which if the hints are correct on exploration/mining being as thorough as implied as well as karma, crime and punishment, naval ranking and all the other bits I think the game will be in a really good place to go forwards. I still think planet-side content may need a few more bits adding after 2018 but for me overall it's positive news and nothing I really disagree with. Speaking to Devs on the day they hope much more can be added but from what I personally see/hear I think they've learnt that there are not many [redacted]s in the community but those that are here are colossal [redacted]s so they are being a bit more cautions what they say and how much detail they give. Saturday gave us an outline, not many absolutes.

 

[smiths121]

None of which was given a timetable or guaranteed, just the path theyd like to take at some point.

I think that is a tad disingenuous. Narrative content (at least some bigger guns) was not timetable specific, I agree, they did video further 2.4 narrative content in a video, I would expect the hint/delivery cycle to be much closer together for this sort of content. We know that crime and punishment, and mining are scheduled for Q1 2018 and trade tools are in Q4. I do not remember a timetable for Squadrons though, really not looking forward to some of the more psychotic groups (aka you average mixed mode BGS or PvP large group) getting a flag ship - and no I am not even thinking of SDC!!. I want them to take time with that!

We know the ships are scheduled for Q2 and Q3, you only have to look at the relative states of the 3-d models for the Alliance Ship (and the animator hinted at more Alliance ships) and Krait to take a guess which one is in which content update.

Like any software dev company, or games company predicting the future, roadmap to the nearest quarter and no guarentees. I suppose they could do a SC, set a more specific month and miss it, but how does that help us? I sort of set my expectations for SC 3 as Q4, still hoping I am right, but that really is not what was publically roadmapped, and some in the SC community are getting salty about it.

Simon

 

[obliterator]

They are however addressing the 1 mile wide, 1 inch deep criticism and improving what is already in the game instead of tacking on more gimmicks that provide 30 minutes of interest and are then ignored.

This is the most important thing. Expanding the game with new features is only worth it if the core gameplay is "deep" enough.

 

[Kylisse]

I've played plenty of games that were slowly circling the drain. ED resembles none of them.

If you ever want atmospheric planets then 2018 is absolutely mandatory. They have to develop the technology that allows them to generate interesting terrain on a mind-boggling number of planets without them being incredibly same-y or even worse just an obvious copy/paste job. This requires an incredible investment of time and development money.

If ED was on the backburner, we would get ships and paint jobs and that's it. Please don't sell them short on what they are trying to accomplish.

 

[PashPliskin]

Past year: We want you to fix the core of the game! "Mile wide inch deep" Bla,bla,bla We don't want new features first fix what's broken!

*FD announces plans to fix the core gameplay*

Now: Why are you fixing stuff? Why is it in maintenance mode? We want new stuff not fixes!

*FD uses profits from one game to generate more*

They are leaving the game! They want to move on! I knew it!

I swear it, sometimes these "Adults" are worse than kids, but I guess being in the internet no matter what FD does someone will find a way to complain.

Well, I didn't complain.I just expressed one of my concerns for the game's future.

 

[kofeyh]

I'm not a game developer so I could be wrong but..

There's always a but. I tend to think FX17 kinda proves the opposite, actually. Post thargoid launch, with the missions systems wound back (and schrodingers weapons that do, and don't do damage) I had no idea what Frontier was doing and had genuine concerns for it's longevity. FX17 tells me they "get it" finally, and are working on resolving long-standing sticking points for a great many. It just won't happen, tomorrow. It'll take time.

It's very popular to assume because a developer is working on two or three projects at once, they are automatically compromised. This would be an incorrect assumption. The only thing Frontier are essentially guilty of, is excessive detail on random parts of development, and virtual silence on others. A more consistent, even cadence with high-level information helps keep us informed, without going in to so much detail they torpedo their own development.

Sometimes they are just over-excited children and babble; Ed actually headed off David who looked to be ready to wax lyrical in the FX17 livestream, so it's clear this "oversharing" is probably not constructive and is being toned down a bit. This sort of off the cuff commentary from David, hasn't helped in the past, because often he's thinking out loud, rather than actually describing the work Sandro and the team are doing; this creates false expectations and dooms the resulting outcome.

I think we're starting to see a bit more maturity and a slightly more measured engagement from the developer. This is good. FX17 actually gives me a lot more confidence than I had. The only focus shift? Improving outcomes to better align with player engagement, over a roadmap that's been confused and wasn't meeting player expectations. They are learning and shifting gears to deliver a better experience. This is good. Because that will best respond to what their player base desires.

The only thing I could possibly see as a huge improvement, would be for Frontier to either create a proper QC team (or if one exists, seriously invest in it) to better vet content being introduced. Stuff is being released that would likely not pass QC ordinarily. This is super important for future content that due to spoiler nature, won't ever be in any beta. They really, really need to sort that out. It wouldn't be a cure-all, but it would massively reduce some of the stressing the player base goes under when frontier roll entire mechanics back because they overcook it.

Otherwise, I can only say Frontier seem to be grasping where they've gone wrong, and seeking to build a better experience. Can't really ask for more than that.

 

[EdzUp]

tldr

To be honest they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

being a software engineer myself I can tell you some of the things they propose ON TOP OF THE GUARDIAN BACK STORY is time consuming. It's the back story that also takes up content time nobody sees this until it happens so it's a "what have they added" sort of thing.

For me one thing is getting added that I've been after since ED was released and that is the Krait, yes it's a little bigger than the old ones BUT I will be in it asap.

 

[Jethzk]

It's the opposite. They put aside ED for a while to develop Planet Coaster. Now it's a success and their company has grow they have a lot more money to invest in new game and current games.
New games will simply provide more money to invest in all current games and new games for a long period.

All FDev games share same proprietary graphical engine (Cobra) and they'll evolve with the development of this engine. Therefore Frontiers games can be developped for years without being limited by graphical engine as for graphics and possibilities.

FDev are not going for the money, they are looking toward the long term development. That's why they are now investing time in the core game. They are putting a lot more people into the project as they are a bigger company now.

David Braben is a passionate man. He wants to develop a big succefull company but moreover develop games he always dreamed of.

You can be sure they'll put money on the project.

Just this. Their focus is the Cobra engine. If we look at their history we see can see the development of the engine.

Elite Dangerous 2014 - Base technology, needing a lot of work and additional tuning
Screamride 2015 (microsoft studios)- Cars with Roller coaster tracks (gravity).
Elite Dangerous: Horizons - Gravitational pull, SRV (cars). - Much later on, character builder.
Planet Coaster 2016 - Roller Coaster tracks that players can build - more importantly, crowds of people along with general behaviors.
Jurassic World Evolution - ??? Most likely, planetary life - Forests/trees, AI for beasts, etc.

It's true they cashed in on Horizons and were slow to deliver content. They used that money to fund planet coaster and kept ED on the back burner. The technological advancements to the Cobra engine haven't been seen in Elite, since we don't have crowds of people, yet.... What we are seeing is the technology development needed to make planets have life while allowing us to walk around on those planets. Unfortunately that technology takes time, especially considering they are building a game engine from the ground up. The fact that they are able to cash in while developing that technology means that Frontier is far less likely to run out of money trying to tackle the scope of a space sim.

To be honest, I was very frustrated with the lack of progress in Elite and I still feel that Horizon's is underdeveloped. I quit suggesting things because it was apparent that they either didn't care, or lacked the manpower to change things. The 2018 road map has given me a lot of hope, as it shows that they are listening to the community. Most of the QOL improvements are things that have been discussed on the forums. It might take them a year to get there, and perhaps that's a year longer than it would have if their only focus was Elite, but I don't mind waiting if the end product is good. I'm happy they are fixing things without trying to sell more expansions.

 

[kofeyh]

Just this. Their focus is the Cobra engine. If we look at their history we see can see the development of the engine.

Honestly this basically covers it. I don't think it's fair or accurate to state they used Horizons to directly fund planet coaster, and then abandoned Horizons; but it's clear they over-promised and couldn't deliver. Once capital is available for investment, we have zero right to define where it goes. Instead, they have repeatedly invested time and energy into their game engine, Cobra.

This was, is, and will continue to be vital; that they can leverage the same engine across multiple games, also means that they can reuse that development, and useful code, in a way they simply could not utilising differing engines. Enhancements in one game, have value across the rest. This is the sort of development synergy that frankly should be expected and encouraged. Because this will actually speed up delivery of content. Not slow it down.

FX17 was a pleasant surprise. This won't stop me expecting great things, and occasionally asking the developer quite what it is they're doing, but it does show they are maturing and starting to understand where the player base is, and are genuinely seeking to better meet that demand. This is good. It's a good sign.

 

[Jethzk]

Some of you might find this worth a read:
http://ar2016.frontier.co.uk/assets/pdf/frontier-developments-2016-annual-report-and-accounts.pdf

 

[Badben]

I don't see the way the OP does. what I think is that these updates are going to be significant in size. Updates in exploring aren't just going to be a few minor tweaks, but a major overhaul of the mechanics. The fact that these updates don't seem like really big ticket items, in no way means they won't be. There's so much that can be done with the core mechanics, I'm really pleased they're taking the whole next year to focus on them. The updates of the past, CQC, planetary landings, engineers, ship launched fighters etc. were all big ticket items squeezed into a too short a time which resulted in people finding them shallow and badly implemented. I imagine though, if they could squeeze so many big updates into such a short time, imagine what they'll be able to do focusing on just a few core mechanics. I think by the end of 2018, people will stop saying, "mile wide, inch deep".

 

[uliando]

In long future where SC is finally released we will see how ED will react to it. For now SC is a nice tech demo that have very very ballsy promises. ED is going slowly and trying to avoid big server costs. Simulating universe is a big thing if you have galaxy sized galaxy. SC have only 100 systems or so to simulate? Yeah they can put more detailed sim into it. ED on the other hand have 100 000 000 000+ systems or so i think. (3 star average maybe?). Good for explorers not good for traders and people who would like to have detailed BGS. I still don't know how they can keep mmo without monthly payments alive and have even more people working on ED compared to when they started.

If I had more money I'd buy more ED stuff. Even though I am big huge SC fan, i spend 3-4x less money on possible vaporware than ED. If they are supposedly shifting away from ED, why more people work on it? Shouldn't LESS people be working on ED then?

 

[CapuchinSeven]

It's pretty clear FD can't win. The last thing the game needs is yet more tacked on, under developed "features".

Many of us on the forums have been asking for these things for a long time, the game has the depth of a piece of paper. It NEEDs these things. I can't be happier, this is good news. They've been listening.

 

[Mr Defiant]

It's pretty clear FD can't win. The last thing the game needs is yet more tacked on, under developed "features".

Many of us on the forums have been asking for these things for a long time, the game has the depth of a piece of paper. It NEEDs these things. I can't be happier, this is good news. They've been listening.

you can't be happier with what , you have no clue what were going to end up with
they have promised to flesh out the game umpteen times and it's still shallow as hell
don't get me wrong i play and enjoy the game for what it is , a space sandbox

 

[DeathStroke]

*COUGH*Elite: Beyond costs nothing for Horizons owners*COUGH*that's not how you milk a game*COUGH*

That's EXACTLY how you milk a game in today's market, give something of low value away for free, and stuff it full of micro-transactions. They make WAY more on paintjobs, kits, and suits, than they have on horizons.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Some of you might find this worth a read:
http://ar2016.frontier.co.uk/assets/pdf/frontier-developments-2016-annual-report-and-accounts.pdf

2017 one is up too now buddy: https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...eleases/financial/FrontierAR17-FullReport.pdf

 

[racer1]

@OP I'm sure there has been some resources moved to other projects. I would consider that normal.

I'm fairly happy with the dev plan for the next year though. It is a niche game, but hopefully as it is DB's baby it'll always get a decent level of attention from FD.

 

[PashPliskin]

@OP I'm sure there has been some resources moved to other projects. I would consider that normal.

I'm fairly happy with the dev plan for the next year though. It is a niche game, but hopefully as it is DB's baby it'll always get a decent level of attention from FD.

I hope you are right!

 

[NecoMachina]

That's EXACTLY how you milk a game in today's market, give something of low value away for free, and stuff it full of micro-transactions. They make WAY more on paintjobs, kits, and suits, than they have on horizons.

Look at Path of Exile. Has always been free to play, relying ENTIRELY on cosmetic microtransactions. And it's quite a good, in-depth game - this isn't some Candy Crush mobile phone app.

 

[DeathStroke]

Look at Path of Exile. Has always been free to play, relying ENTIRELY on cosmetic microtransactions. And it's quite a good, in-depth game - this isn't some Candy Crush mobile phone app.

That might have something to do with the developers spending 100% of their development time and money on that game. 'Grinding Gear Games' (Path of Exile developer) only develops a single game, Path of Exile.
It will be very different for ED, because Frontier are working on 3 games at the moment, and right now Jurassicworld will be getting the most resources, depleting the other games of their resources.
Like I said, CASH COW GETS MILKED.