is frontier being too clever for their own good

[Cody]

Will there be such a thing as 'twitch-space'?

<chortles merrily>

 

[Perseus]

/me walks over and picks little Perseus up by the scruff of the neck ...

"Turn over!" slap slap slap! Now go stand in the corner! Go on!

Hehee - couldn't resist.
I love combat but I don't want it all the time. I want to fly my ship, making all kinds of decisions about route, risk, profit, possibilities, leads and missions. It's being there that counts for me.
Fighting is the last option, unless I'm tackling a bounty or performing a 'removal'. Otherwise, I hope pilot craft is exercised undertaking a variety of space manoeuvres, anything from scooping gas or rocks to finding/retrieving objects. I'm sure the game will have content richer than I can imagine.
Oooh, now where's that soothing cream?

 

[Slawkenbergius]

I'm hoping there's some twitch action to be had in fighters.... Even if it's ultimately less effective than having a barge bristling with automated laser turrets.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Disagree, E: D is not and never will be a Descent 1/2 or 3 clone.

Some of you lot need to stop talking about 'twitch' as if it is in some way comparable here, it is not.

My mistake - Elite (Classic) was never a twitch game in the FPS sense, however it was more of an action game than the current definition of ED. In Elite you could be chased by several hostile enemies and have to maneuver about the place avoiding enemy fire which implies twitch (although technically it's not as you said).

One thing I will add though is that the Wiki suggest that Twitch gameplay is not always what you think:

"Fast chess, chess played with short time limits between moves, is an example of adding a twitch gameplay element to a turn-based game"

My questions to him though still stand.

 

[Tinman]

In Elite you could be chased by several hostile enemies and have to maneuver about the place avoiding enemy fire which implies twitch (although technically it's not as you said) but certainly not the snooze fest Michael implied.

"Snooze fest"? :S

That's not at all how I read it.

The way I interpret it is that it's not twitch in the sense of Quake 3 "frag-a-thon", you know: BOOM, DEAD, BOOM, DEAD, BOOM, DEAD, BOOM, DEAD, BOOM, DEAD, BOOM, DEAD.

Rather it's more dogfighting like: ZAP, MISS, ZAP, MISS, DODGE, ROLL, DEPLOY MINE, ZAP, MISS, FORWARD SHIELD CRITICAL, ZAP, HIT, LAUNCHING MISSIL, ECM ACTIVATED, MISSIL DESTROYED, ZAP HIT, RIGHT THRUSTER FAILING... and so on.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

That's not at all how I read it.

Poor choice of words - removed (so thanks for pointing that out)

It does though depend upon interpretation - how I read it in my mind was that combat in ED was going to be VERY slow in comparison to Elite - there combat took anywhere from 1 second (military lasers extreme range on pirates) to about 1-2 minutes tops when engaged at short range with normal weapons. The ML at long range was OTT I agree, but a few minutes feels about right to me for combat - space is hostile ya know.

Anything longer and I worry about the BH role that is based upon kills.

 

[PacalB]

how I read it in my mind was that combat in ED was going to be VERY slow in comparison to Elite - there combat took anywhere from 1 second (military lasers extreme range on pirates) to about 1-2 minutes tops when engaged at short range with normal weapons..

I think think the Elite: Dangerous Cobra Teaser (though early pre-alpha) gives a very good example of how combat will be. It is not slow, nor is it 'twitch' nor is it extreme popping of ship after ship at extreme range with beam lasers.

As for chasing kills as a BH, who says BH is all about kills? Whats to say some of it isn't also about disablement? Fight, disable the ship then call in a tow-tug to pick up the disabled ship. The victim now has the option to either eject or get tow-jumped back to a station, docked up and fined with a criminal record slap. (or his/her mates could save them)

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

who says BH is all about kills?

Ermm .. FD did:

Bounty Collection

• Player discovers a bounty, this can happen two ways
  • Scanning another ship with the appropriate equipment to reveal that they have a bounty
  • Finding a bounty listed on the bulletin board, giving them a rough location
    • They will then have to scan again to confirm they have the right ship
• Once they have confirmed the ship they are targeting has a bounty they are free to engage
• Once they have killed their target they receive a bounty chip for that kill
• They can then return to a station and cash it in for the reward

(Emphasis mine)

If I eject you haven't caught me

At any rate perhaps I am stressing over nothing so once FD wake up hopefully they will respond and give us a clue as to how things will pan out. I am part of Alpha so if it proves to be way off I will have chance to say something then of course - until that point I appreciate it's speculation.

 

[Associat0r]

Poor choice of words - removed (so thanks for pointing that out)

It does though depend upon interpretation - how I read it in my mind was that combat in ED was going to be VERY slow in comparison to Elite - there combat took anywhere from 1 second (military lasers extreme range on pirates) to about 1-2 minutes tops when engaged at short range with normal weapons. The ML at long range was OTT I agree, but a few minutes feels about right to me for combat - space is hostile ya know.

Anything longer and I worry about the BH role that is based upon kills.

You gotta remember that there were sequels FE2 and FFE where there was way more to do than just endlessly killing ships and ED will expand on that.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

You gotta remember that there were sequels FE2 and FFE where there was way more to do than just endlessly killing ships and ED will expand on that.

ETA

You know what .. you're right .. There are plenty of things to do - as a BH your primary role is to kill people but if this takes 5 minutes or 55 minutes the outcome is still the same - you need the kill.

It is what it is.

Michael - Forget the Q .. it's irrelevant.

*mumbles about the internet wasting too much of my time and locks his account*

 

[Capt. Hook]

I get the impression from the videos and whatnot that ships will gradually fall into destruction when attacked, so cargo vents, bits of the ship fly off (modules presumably too if external) and so on. This presumably is to give the target some option to make an escape of sorts, albeit in a ragged way. I could be wrong though. My judgement atm is warped as I am baby sleep deprived

 

[Zak Gordon]

You gotta remember that there were sequels FE2 and FFE where there was way more to do than just endlessly killing ships and ED will expand on that.

Indeed! It's not as if this is David and FD's first game

 

[Associat0r]

ETA

You know what .. you're right .. There are plenty of things to do - as a BH your primary role is to kill people but if this takes 5 minutes or 55 minutes the outcome is still the same - you need the kill.

It is what it is.

Michael - Forget the Q .. it's irrelevant.

*mumbles about the internet wasting too much of my time and locks his account*

A kill could simply be scaled to count higher, and the AI will probably be way more competent this time and cooperate better in groups to make it even harder.

Also the endless killings in the previous Elite games wasn't very believable to me, they were swarming all around you and shooting their lasers as if they were blind, missing you most of the time, that begs the question as to how these NPCs became pirates in the first place, if I can just come in there as a nobody and kill them within a few seconds without much effort.

 

[Alien]

Why can't I be a bounty hunter and drag the criminal to a space station and turn him (or her) over to the police and get a reward without killing them?

Please tell me the DDF did think of that.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Also the endless killings in the previous Elite games wasn't very believable to me, they were swarming all around you and shooting their lasers as if they were blind, missing you most of the time, that begs the question as to how these NPCs became pirates in the first place, if I can just come in there as a nobody and kill them within a few seconds without much effort.

Have you ever played a game where the NPC never misses ? I have and it's not much fun !

Even playing at 50% speed it's still not fun which is how I used to train when playing UT back in the day. (Start at 50% and over the weeks increase the speed to 120% .. then games online appear REALLY slow and you have eons to hit people - Loki, one of the bots, never EVER missed and I always lost against him in a 10 man death match ... If he wasn't playing I came 1st .. damn cheat! )

Expect in ED for the human pilots to not miss as often.

Why can't I be a bounty hunter and drag the criminal to a space station and turn him (or her) over to the police and get a reward without killing them?

If you don't kill me and you disable my ship I have 2 choices - wait to be towed into the station (which is dumb) or eject and live another day, and I ain't coming quietly

 

[FrogsFriend]

Hmmm..
If a player can't be killed (except in IronMan) and you can only destroy their ship, what happens with regard to bounties if they eject manually before they are forced to eject by the ship exploding/powering-down?

What if I destroy your ship just after you eject?

Has this already been covered somewhere?

 

[Associat0r]

Have you ever played a game where the NPC never misses ? I have and it's not much fun !

I didn't suggest NPCs that never miss, but I suggested NPCs that a are closer to human competence and motives, since the NPCs in the previous games were mostly suicidal.

 

[Michael Brookes]

1) During combat (PvE / PvP - take your pick) how long are you anticipating fights to last for should they go to the death ? I am thinking a determined BH fighting a pirate here.

2) Some people's motivation is going to be pure NPC smacking - are these also going to be a significant event ?

3) If destroying ships is going to be significant, how are BHs going to work ? They rely upon kills to which you are suggesting this is going to be major work.

Whilst I also appreciate this isn't a frag-a-thon at the same time part of the game of old WAS destroying ships ... It's a good move for sure - moving into I presume strategy rather than pure twitch, but at the same time part of me feels saddened by this revelation.

It's a balance, generally speaking Bounty Hunters will use more combat capable ships, so would be able to gain the kill quicker than someone having a go in a freighter.

I'm not suggesting that you can't overwhelm targets and take them down quickly if you are suitably equipped and/or skilled enough. In the right ships reflexes will count for something, but it's not everything.

As I say it's a balance and one that will be tweeaked all the way through Alpha and Beta.

Michael

 

[Nagual]

It's a balance, generally speaking Bounty Hunters will use more combat capable ships, so would be able to gain the kill quicker than someone having a go in a freighter.

I'm not suggesting that you can't overwhelm targets and take them down quickly if you are suitably equipped and/or skilled enough. In the right ships reflexes will count for something, but it's not everything.

As I say it's a balance and one that will be tweeaked all the way through Alpha and Beta.

Michael

Does this mean while it is less of a 'twitch' game, the combat is more aim assisted / component related?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

It's a balance, generally speaking Bounty Hunters will use more combat capable ships, so would be able to gain the kill quicker than someone having a go in a freighter.

I'm not suggesting that you can't overwhelm targets and take them down quickly if you are suitably equipped and/or skilled enough. In the right ships reflexes will count for something, but it's not everything.

As I say it's a balance and one that will be tweeaked all the way through Alpha and Beta.

Michael

That will suffice - thanks for your time on a Sunday Michael.