Is it griefing? (Shower Thoughts)

About a week ago I pulled into a nice quite corner of Empire space and started a pretty good trade run between 4-5 systems It was/is great for Rep building and all that jazz. When I first arrived system traffic was at about 40-50 ships per day mostly Cobras a few Asps and an Anaconda or two. Over the last few days I've been seeing a lot more PC's and have noticed that Traffic report at most stations are in the 250-350 visitors range. Lots of T6's and T7's, they have yet to effect my trade routes yet. But I find myself growing less excited to see other PC's, and I'm really starting to think about attacking them. Not really to pirate their goods or anything, just to chase them off and be territorial. Is that wrong? I know it's very Grumpy Old Man like, but I think I would be well within my rights to do so, as anyone would be well within theirs to do it to me.

I know the question "Is that wrong?" is pretty hypothetical. Anyone I attack can play solo, making it totally pointless to attack them. I'm just curious about how the people here feel about it.

In reality, I'll probably just move on. I've Allied all the systems I wanted to in the area and would like to move to a different sector anyway.

One of the great things about this game is you can pretty much do whatever you wish to within the allowed game mechanics.
If you think attacking other players is the right thing for you to do, you don't need to ask anyone anything, go for it!
How they respond to your attacks and how you cope with the bounties and other consequences of doing so is what could make this a truly great game. See below for "could".

It's only griefing if you continually attack the same player. I'd see it as a great opportunity for some roleplaying if you're happy to accept the consequences.
So get a bind with a short and sweet sentence explaining why your attacking them, have it on a bind so you don't need to type it each time.
Doing so will mean even if someone does keep coming back multiple times, you have legitimised why your are attacking them - because they keep coming back, despite you claiming that area of space. You could make a pretty good case to FD doing so, if you get reported for attacking the same player multiple times (so long as it is not every 5 minutes, if you see what I mean).


All of that being said, here are the POSSIBLE drawbacks for you with your plan and what you need to consider :-

1 - They just go Solo and keep on truckin'
2 - They put you on ignore and it's unlikely you see them again - even in open
3 - Anyone who has half a clue how to play will 100% escape you every time you interdict them while giving you the finger out the left window and FSDing out of there long before you do (if you even win the interdict mini game)
4 - You will soon start getting rep hits, possibly undoing the work you put in to getting Allied status in the area
5 - You start getting bounties. Unless your happy to build them up, you will have to keep paying them off. This costs you money.
6 - You bite off a bit more than you can chew and start getting killed. This costs you money.
7 - Pirating players is pretty hard to do and make money, see previous two points.
8 - You start getting reported for griefing, and even though you are not, you end up on FD's hit list and get segregated away from other players for being a mean and nasty person in this PvE game!

So as you can see, the way FD have designed the game and implemented the game, while I 100% support what you would like to do, the reality is it is unlikely to work and probably going to be quite painful for you instead.
Which is a real shame, but that is how it is in FD's Elite "Dangerous" world, and I really don't see that changing much. We all need to accept that Elite is very much a PvE game, a million miles away from something like EvE or Star Citizen as far as combat with other players is concerned. FD don't like or want Elite to get a rep for players killing each other and have very much designed it this way over time, especially given the fun that was had during Beta (sorry I meant griefing to all who complained about getting killed in the Beta).

If you want to actually do any PvP/pirating/roleplaying such as you describe, I think you'll need to wait about 5 years for Star Citizen to actually come out, or for them to actually achieve something beyond selling you more and more ships and letting you have a toddle around in a ship hanger and play a very limited and broken demo of an arena style game.

For the space games in the future they will look like this in my opinion :-

Elite - top of the line PvE & Co-op game in space
EvE - top of the line point and click space game with real nastiness and harsh consequences possible.
SC - top of the line space game that has a bit of everything, and a bit like CoD in space, bit of a middle ground between the other two.

To be clear - nothing wrong with any of the above, they are all going for a different market, which is a wise thing to do!
While I won't go back to EvE as it really can be life sucking and did feel like a second job to me after a few years, if I want peace and quiet and a bit of co-op in the future I'll play Elite, if I want to play with my guild and PvP I'll be in SC.

Whatever you decide to do, the very best of luck Sir!
 
About a week ago I pulled into a nice quite corner of Empire space and started a pretty good trade run between 4-5 systems It was/is great for Rep building and all that jazz. When I first arrived system traffic was at about 40-50 ships per day mostly Cobras a few Asps and an Anaconda or two. Over the last few days I've been seeing a lot more PC's and have noticed that Traffic report at most stations are in the 250-350 visitors range. Lots of T6's and T7's, they have yet to effect my trade routes yet. But I find myself growing less excited to see other PC's, and I'm really starting to think about attacking them. Not really to pirate their goods or anything, just to chase them off and be territorial. Is that wrong? I know it's very Grumpy Old Man like, but I think I would be well within my rights to do so, as anyone would be well within theirs to do it to me.

I know the question "Is that wrong?" is pretty hypothetical. Anyone I attack can play solo, making it totally pointless to attack them. I'm just curious about how the people here feel about it.

In reality, I'll probably just move on. I've Allied all the systems I wanted to in the area and would like to move to a different sector anyway.


In game about trading, piracy, smuggling, mining, murdering and exploring, how is shooting people considered griefing?

Just shoot them and scare them off your system, more free space for you :)
 
About a week ago I pulled into a nice quite corner of Empire space and started a pretty good trade run between 4-5 systems It was/is great for Rep building and all that jazz. When I first arrived system traffic was at about 40-50 ships per day mostly Cobras a few Asps and an Anaconda or two. Over the last few days I've been seeing a lot more PC's and have noticed that Traffic report at most stations are in the 250-350 visitors range. Lots of T6's and T7's, they have yet to effect my trade routes yet. But I find myself growing less excited to see other PC's, and I'm really starting to think about attacking them. Not really to pirate their goods or anything, just to chase them off and be territorial. Is that wrong? I know it's very Grumpy Old Man like, but I think I would be well within my rights to do so, as anyone would be well within theirs to do it to me.

I know the question "Is that wrong?" is pretty hypothetical. Anyone I attack can play solo, making it totally pointless to attack them. I'm just curious about how the people here feel about it.

In reality, I'll probably just move on. I've Allied all the systems I wanted to in the area and would like to move to a different sector anyway.

You're not really saying what you're gonna do though. Are you gonna just mindlessly pursue people and attempt to kill them every time you see them? Or are you gonna say something first? Is this just an "ololol I'm doing teh RPz, I no griefz lelel omg-super-kek-to-the-max" thing? Asking for validation on the forums about this kinda thing seems kinda odd. Unless, you know... It's a look-at-me-gusy-omg-kekz kinda thing. Just curious...
 
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Look I know everyone's saying this is great and it's what Elite's about but can I just point out that in practice :

IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PREVENT SOMEONE USING YOUR TRADE ROUTE!!

Open and solo play use exactly the same galaxy, any trader who's found a great trade route and is being attacked by a player will not go elsewhere, they will just go into solo and continue to use your trade route.

They will continue to use the same route as you, visiting the same stations as you, depleting the same shared resource pile as you and affecting the same shared price that you see, it's just you won't ever see them; they'll effectively just become invisible.

You literally cannot stop anyone using any trade route, and to be honest it's a bit bloomin' crap. =(
 
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Look I know everyone's saying this is great and it's what Elite's about but can I just point out that in practice :

IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PREVENT SOMEONE USING YOUR TRADE ROUTE!!

Open and solo play use exactly the same galaxy, any trader who's found a great trade route and is being attacked by a player will not go elsewhere, they will just go into solo and continue to use your trade route.

They will continue to use the same route as you, visiting the same stations as you, depleting the same shared resource pile as you and affecting the same shared price that you see, it's just you won't ever see them; they'll effectively just become invisible.

You literally cannot stop anyone using any trade route, and to be honest it's a bit bloomin' crap. =(

Just like those other cheats that live in a different timezone and play while you're at work. :rolleyes:
 
Sounds like a pretty good reason to shoot at other players to me. IMO any time you can come up with an in-universe reason for shooting someone there's no way you can be accused of griefing.
 
You're not really saying what you're gonna do though. Are you gonna just mindlessly pursue people and attempt to kill them every time you see them? Or are you gonna say something first? Is this just an "ololol I'm doing teh RPz, I no griefz lelel omg-super-kek-to-the-max" thing? Asking for validation on the forums about this kinda thing seems kinda odd. Unless, you know... It's a look-at-me-gusy-omg-kekz kinda thing. Just curious...

Copy and paste from previous post: "Ya, I would notify them. With something belligerent to chase them off. It wouldn't be any fun (For me) if I didn't yell and scream at them while I'm shooting." That said I failed to take into account the rep hit I would take for doing so. I wouldn't mind taking the hit if it mattered, but since it's totally pointless (but my bad rep would follow me to solo/group/online) so I'm not going to do it. I'm glad I posted here to see other lines of thought.
 
Sounds like a pretty good reason to shoot at other players to me. IMO any time you can come up with an in-universe reason for shooting someone there's no way you can be accused of griefing.

No such thing as griefing in an online spaceship MMO.

Let's face it, get interdicted or attacked by an NPC ship, and you really have nothing to worry about, even if the vessel is 'Expert' and it is a much better vessel than you have......

.....if a CMDR interdicts/attacks/harrasses you, than that is can be quite a frought situation and the game needs that kind of tension in order to bring it alive. Being able to circumnavigate that by going SOLO is totally lame and something that hopefully Frontier will address when/if their game grows in popularity, which it should do over time, because it really is for the most part something quite phenomenal.

On many an occasion I have interdicted some low powered CMDR in unregulated Space, just to watch him squeel, just to make him plead and beg, just because I can. After aggressively commanding them to drop their cargo, I generally let them talk their way out of it, or let them get away.....but the day might come when I grow far less merciful, or genuinely interested in having their cargo.........and that is all good. That is all part of what makes an MMO sandbox experience.
 
For every player that goes solo, there will be several who will stay in open and either try and evade you, fight you, or heed your warning and leave sharpish. Because, you know, it's more fun that way.... I certainly wouldn't run to solo if another player told me to 'stay off moi land...'
 
I must have missed the post from FD about how if you are the first to discover a trade route it then belongs to you! :) I love the fact that no one on this thread has questioned how this "ownership" works.
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However in the spirit of cooperation I just want to mention that I found this place called Sol and I want you all to leave. Now!
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ive got a female blackbird in our back garden who does that. chases every other bird away and keeps all the bird food for itself. i guess there is something genetic and evolutionary there...
 
For every player that goes solo, there will be several who will stay in open and either try and evade you, fight you, or heed your warning and leave sharpish. Because, you know, it's more fun that way.... I certainly wouldn't run to solo if another player told me to 'stay off moi land...'

When you're carrying a million in cargo that took you a good few hours to grind out, "fun" doesn't enter into the equation.
 
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