Is it just 'grinders' who feel the game lacks depth?

[Bill Clement]

I feel this game lacks depth because, aside from propulsion and weaponry, the year 3302 feels far behind 2016 in terms of technology (especially when it comes to modern conveniences).

The decision to run with '50s levels of technology is an odd one, but one I've come around to, just as the flight model seemed like a bizarre choice at first. It's a game and it has to be fun, first and foremost. The Space Operas we grew up with- Star Wars, BSG, even Firefly- all seem to harken back to low tech solutions in a very high tech scenario. That's not about depth, it's a stylistic choice. Apply '90s tech to our in game ships and you'd remove most of the things that I (and presumably many others) enjoy the most. Manual dogfighting, landings, dodgy surface radar, having to actually go out and discover things for yourself, rather than hitting up space google...

I feel this game lacks depth because if you remove the players, the bubble almost comes to a grinding halt. There's no commerce. No sense of a living society. No consequences for your actions.

For me it's the reverse- there's tons going on and I'm slowly figuring out, with a lot of help from like minded friends, what we PF players, can do to change them.

I feel this game lacks depth because a system with a population of 30 million doesn't feel any different than a system 30k ly away, aside from a random ship spawning on screen. These systems should be New York City equivalents in terms of activity. Even Sol and Achenar just feel frozen in time. There is no government or corporate activity. No mining barges located in ring systems with transports moving in and out hauling everything back. Stuff that isn't available to us.

I'd like a lot more background activity as well- but my suspicion is that it'll appear over time. The 'it all looks the same' problem isn't restricted to the game, though. I can't remember the last time I docked in a real port where there wasn't a McDonalds within walking distance and evidence of the on going war between Pepsi and Coke everywhere I looked.

I feel this game lacks depth because everything in the game seem it's just a placeholder. It still very much feels like an alpha 2 years after release.

I don't. Some things definitely need improving, but some are so familiar to me I'd kick off big time if they were 'improved'.

I feel this game lacks depth because when I go to the bulletin board, I get flooded with low rank trade missions, despite being ranked elite. Completing any mission gives no acknowledgement. No thank you. No notion that people besides the players exist in this universe. The NPC's are as shallow as everything else. A few scripted lines and that's it.

Two thoughts there, mate. Firstly, the missions appear in relation to your standing with the faction offering them. Get in tight with a faction and the quality of missions they offer you will improve. Secondly, back to real life. Where's the pat on the back for what you do out there? As a personal preferance, I'd rather the reward stays as it is now- more and better missions- than go down the hackneyed old RPG route of streams of otherwise pointless NPCs turning up to blow smoke up your posterior. I'd much rather be Ace Rimmer than Iron Man!*


I play this game. I enjoy this game. I am excited for what is coming in 2.1, as I feel it looks like a large leap forward to fixing a lot of the issues I have with it. As long as it keeps improving, I will continue to play and enjoy it.

The imagination thing is a cop out. In a visual medium such as a video game, this falls on the developers shoulders. It's why they are paid to do it. A book forces you to use your imagination through detailed description, and through character development. We don't have that, either.

Thanks for a well thought out and articulate reply, mate. I dissagree with much of it, but milage varies. In terms of being under developed I'm drawn in different directions- yes, I'd love much more background activity, more variety in everything we see and do, especially more ways to interact with NPCs. At the same time there are only so many development assets to go around- I'd rather the team concentrate on their vision of what the game should be, fixing the many issues that arrise as they become aware of them and reserve judgement for a while longer yet. It's been really good so far, I'm looking forward to what comes next. [yesnod]

* I'm part of the way there- I make a really good Arnold J, most games...

 

[Sans Daring]

The imagination thing is a cop out. In a visual medium such as a video game, this falls on the developers shoulders. It's why they are paid to do it. A book forces you to use your imagination through detailed description, and through character development. We don't have that, either.

The danger here is to expect a model that suits your desire rather than what is intended. First and foremost, this is a space simulator, a simulator by definition is largely about emulation of an experience, not about narratological factors. A flight simulator is not expected to ensure the Ops Tower is accessible or that you can run around a terminal, or that the co-pilot has an interesting backstory about his wife and this one time with a dog. Sure, they'd make for a deeper flight simulator as all these could be argued as existing to a pilot, but the expectation on Elite falls largely on it being more than a space simulator. Not that's a bad thing, and I commend Frontier for its bold future vision, but I think discounting imagination goes against the core of the simulator experience. The game brings you the simulator of space life, you bring the rest. To explore should be about you wanting to find new planets, not some exciting ludology that makes finding new planets an exciting systematic experience.

Like all things there is a balance. I think more depth to Elite is a fantastic thing, but ultimately, at its roots, it is built to experience the simulation of futuristic space. The marvel of scale, majesty and breadth of an industry set within the stars. That's what Elite is. Accept that mandate, and hope for deeper things and Elite is far less frustrating. Go in expecting deeper narratology, game systems, and exploration outside that set up, you'll be disappointed.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can wander my ship, or walk to a coffee shop in a space station, or stand on a planet. It's not essential to what Elite is, but it will make it better.

The one point I think you make that is very topical is such additional elements might make people step back from the "grind" more. The hardship of open play that takes on a whole galaxy is that to make that sort of massive scale "deep" is a task beyond task. You're not talking about making a village an exciting and rich environment, one has to map depth onto a galaxy. Ouch.

But yes, my point is really that grinding sort of goes against what Elite really is about, and if we end up finding ourselves grinding unhappily, we shouldn't blame the game, but blame ourselves for not logging off and doing something more productive.

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

Historically speaking exploration was never the kind of vulgar space tourism you're describing. Exploration was never done for the sake of it, it was always a tool, the point being to generate more profit. To find new lands to exploit, new resources to bring back and become rich and famous. That's a glaring omission in ED right now, the profit and incentives just aren't there although they were discussed in the DDF back then.

No it wasn't. Read the diaries of explorers. They all wanted a bit of fame and maybe some money for sure but do you think that Scott,Amundsen or Shackleton went through all that they did for some cash? Nope, they went there to be the first. To get their name tag on an undiscovered rock (or lump of ice). Mallory even famously said of Everest that he wanted to climb it "because it was there". Tell me, that Elite dangerous exploration is vulgar tourism when you have picked your own route across the void to Beagle point and haven´t used a real explorers route or given up and blown yourself back to the bubble in a rage of suicide.

 

[Spacecat]

I've been playing nonstop for a month and I'm still not bored. I can't say that for many other games I've owned. It would be nice if there was more variety and depth to the missions or some unique stuff you could acquire, but any game is eventually going to get boring at some point.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Every activity possible can be condensed into two systems with only two planets and a moon each.

There is the problem.

 

[Apos]

Most likely and most likely not.

Truth is, I probably wouldn't be playing the game if it wasn't for the BGS, the immersion and attraction with the Alliance and the player group I am in. But all 3 of those is something that I pursued knowledge of myself and not something that the game threw at me. So the grinders do have a point that game isn't that willing to show them what is exciting about the game...but there is also the point of: How exactly are you supposed to demonstrate the importance of something that very much needs immersion and dedication from the individual to enjoy? Truth is, you can only point people towards it, but it's up to them to get to understand it.

Would I say that the game fulfills their share of responsibility towards pointing people that way. Well, to be fair, not to the extent that it seems capable of doing so. So for now, I'd say that both parties are at fault. However, anyone who expects the game to do everything for them has noone else to blame than themselves as well. This is not the kind of game that does that.

Every activity possible can be condensed into two systems with only two planets and a moon each.

There is the problem.

Now make the well being of one out of those two systems more important because one of the planet is purple and you like purple and everything changes drastically.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Now make the well being of one out of those two systems more important because one of the planet is purple and you like purple and everything changes drastically.

Pretty flimsy reason but ok.... i guess. Sounds like added content, which means you best be breaking out your pen and paper to write down all the make believe happenings cause that content just got railroaded by URV skid marks.

 

[Zustiur]

I played heavily for months then trailed off. I revived briefly for a week or so when I purchased a 2nd account so that I could play from the start without scrapping my main character.
I keep wanting to play, but not going beyond the 'Update' button in the launcher. I think there are two reasons for this:
1) My preferred playstyle would be to combine trading/exploring/combat into one randomish roam around the civilized region. Just like I did in Elite 1.
This is technically possible, but doesn't work well enough to make me play because interdictions are too infrequent, and the combat style doesn't behave like Elite 1. By which I mean, in Elite 1, you'd jump into a system and often have to fight your way to the station, encountering multiple waves of ships, often fighting 3 or 4 ships at a time. Sometimes even more. In ED, it's either fight 1 ship (too easy) or fight a wing (die/run away). I therefore don't find the same excitement in combat that I used to have, and as noted, the combat through interdictions is rare. Additionally, I find the trading system is too ... I'm not sure how to describe it, so I'll use the word 'flat'. Why are disparate commodities exactly the same price? Why are there so many cheap commodities with limited profit margins? It seems out of the 70+ available commodities, only 7 are useful after the first day of play. Furthermore, the rest of the cheap ones aren't really useful either because a single mission can account for 10-20 trade runs even when you're Harmless/Aimless/tradeless(WhateverIt'sCalled).

2) Given that the above doesn't work for me, I've run out of challenges that don't amount to 'grind my way to Elite'.
By challenges, I mean goals that are hard, but still within reach. Getting to Sag A* was a challenge, but it was so long that I know I'd never do it again. I just don't have that kind of free time. Flying around the galaxy, or even just to the other side are both interesting goals, but they're too much of a time investment. I'll never do them. My most recent goals were with the 2nd character. I'd simply say 'how much money can I make in an hour?' reset the character, pick a profession and fly for an hour. When I earned enough for a cobra in just over an hour doing missions, the whole exercise became boring. Prior to that, I'd been trying to get involved in the community goals. Yeesh, talk about grind. I love the idea of community goals. The execution doesn't thrill me; especially when its a rare trading goal.

I should perhaps point out that I bought the second account instead of buying Season 2, because the idea (and a few videos) of landing on planets didn't spark my imagination. I therefore have slightly more limited options than others here have. Even so, there should still be more things to do, I just haven't been able to think of them.

I could gripe about many other aspects of the game too, but I recognize the above two as the actual reasons why I don't play anymore.

So, the point of this rant is just to set the background for my question.

What other challenges are there in the game that I should be trying?

How can I make the game interesting again?
What am I missing?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

How can I make the game interesting again?
What am I missing?

Maybe you don't miss anything and you have just played as much ED as you could. Move on and come back when something new drops.