Is next patch going fix profmance issue with using TMT make items

Optimization does not mean that the game will yield high frames per second. If you look at what the game achieves, you could argue the game is quite well optimized, also for current hardware; the game is capable of utilizing multiple cores and multi-threading for instance. The TMTK does affect the loading times in a rather unpleasant way, making them a lot longer than they should be. The transitions between the scenery and building menus also seem to be affected by the TMTK. Note that this is likely a bug, which might or might not get fixed eventually (looking at the amount of broken features in the current game I wouldn't count on it).
For me, good optimization means it runs well on currently available HW so the game is playable and enjoyable. PC is playable for a while, then not. I guess some people just have different look at what optimization means. Anyway, if in early 90´s someone released game that has 3D graphics, but 3D accelerators wouldn´t be on the market, I wouldn´t consider the game optimized either. We have certain possibilities with current hardware and game should be designed to run effectively with that. PC doesn´t do that and as a customer, that´s what I rly care about. I would happily miss certain things from PC if it meant the game to be actually playable...

It would be at least nice, if it got better, but I must say it seems that currently PC runs worst it ever was and even beta played better for me.
 
The cry for optimization is silly to me. Consider that a lot of things in this Game consist of multiple placed objects. Like people said, this freedom comes to a price. I think some People throw out "Optimiziation" as if it is some kind of magic thing. You can only do so much in terms of optimization. I think players themselves need to restrain themselves and scale back the Number of Pieces used. Some Blueprints are to blame as well. Just because you CAN use 4k pieces in a Blueprint doesn't mean that you should in all cases.
I disagree, the game only making use of 1 core for the direct draw thingy seems like bad optimization for the hardware in this day and age. Especially considering that this game had huge fps issues even long before the announcement of the Theme Maker Toolkit.

I agree with the not using too many blueprint pieces but unfortunately this also doesn't really help at all once you build a small realistic theme park with more than 10 coasters and a few dozen flatrides and shops.
 
The cry for optimization is silly to me. Consider that a lot of things in this Game consist of multiple placed objects. Like people said, this freedom comes to a price. I think some People throw out "Optimiziation" as if it is some kind of magic thing. You can only do so much in terms of optimization. I think players themselves need to restrain themselves and scale back the Number of Pieces used. Some Blueprints are to blame as well. Just because you CAN use 4k pieces in a Blueprint doesn't mean that you should in all cases.
I disagree, the game only making use of 1 core for the direct draw thingy seems like bad optimization for the hardware in this day and age. Especially considering that this game had huge fps issues even long before the announcement of the Theme Maker Toolkit.

I agree with the not using too many blueprint pieces but unfortunately this also doesn't really help at all once you build a small realistic theme park with more than 10 coasters and a few dozen flatrides and shops.
My opinion throughout:

Yep, +1! [up] The point of the game is building beautiful parks, with lots of stuff and lots of things going on. For a lot of customers, that means big. Any variation on "so don't do that and it'll be fine" is thoroughly missing the point.

We know that PlanCo currently has at least one solid optimization issue, lack of good multi-core utilization because the game uses DirectX11 instead of DirectX12. Back when the devs decided to go with DirectX11 they did so for a very good reason: most of their potential customer base didn't have DirectX12. But now it's over two years later -- most of us have DirectX12, as our older computers die you pretty much can't buy new ones without it. It's time, it's probably past time, for PlanCo to use DirectX12.
 

Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
If they were to switch to DX12 it would make the game non-functionable for approximately 30% of their player-base



Also:



At 2 million units shipped that's potentially 600K owners of the game. If you take an action that renders your game unplayable then you have to offer the option of a refund to the entirety of the affected audience. That's millions in liabilities, not to mention the PR hit from alienating such a large number of players.

Yes there's the option of supporting both DX11/DX12 simultaneously but this creates potentially twice as much work so it's not a much better solution either.

When Win 7 extended support comes to an end (January next year) most of those reluctant people will inevitibly upgrade to Win 10, that's when you're likely to see changes, not whilst the number is still so high.
 
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For me, good optimization means it runs well on currently available HW so the game is playable and enjoyable. PC is playable for a while, then not. I guess some people just have different look at what optimization means. Anyway, if in early 90´s someone released game that has 3D graphics, but 3D accelerators wouldn´t be on the market, I wouldn´t consider the game optimized either. We have certain possibilities with current hardware and game should be designed to run effectively with that. PC doesn´t do that and as a customer, that´s what I rly care about. I would happily miss certain things from PC if it meant the game to be actually playable...

It would be at least nice, if it got better, but I must say it seems that currently PC runs worst it ever was and even beta played better for me.
The fact that the game starts to run worse the longer you play (add more items/rides/guests etc) has nothing to do with optimization.
 
If they were to switch to DX12 it would make the game non-functionable for approximately 30% of their player-base

[url]https://i.imgur.com/v8IDdJ1.png[/url]

Also:

[url]https://i.imgur.com/tFuVbsK.png[/url]

At 2 million units shipped that's potentially 600K owners of the game. If you take an action that renders your game unplayable then you have to offer the option of a refund to the entirety of the affected audience. That's millions in liabilities, not to mention the PR hit from alienating such a large number of players.

Yes there's the option of supporting both DX11/DX12 simultaneously but this creates potentially twice as much work so it's not a much better solution either.

When Win 7 extended support comes to an end (January next year) most of those reluctant people will inevitibly upgrade to Win 10, that's when you're likely to see changes, not whilst the number is still so high.
Maybe the game would have sold a lot more units if it were using DX12 to yield higher performance.
 

Harbinger

Volunteer Moderator
Maybe the game would have sold a lot more units if it were using DX12 to yield higher performance.
Unlikely, the numbers of Windows 10 users with a DX12 capable GPU were magnitudes lower back when the game launched over 2 years ago. They'd have been lucky to ship 1 million units if they'd have banked on Windows 10 users only at that juncture. Also this game's development started around late 2014/early 2015. Windows 10 wasn't released until mid-2015 so banking on an API that's exclusive to a single operating system at the start of it's development would have been a massive gamble.

There's a reason most developers still haven't gone all in on DX12 (Frontier certainly aren't in the minority on this), the adoption rate of Windows 10 has been painfully slow.
 
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Adittionally, if you look at the games that were released the last few years and got DX12 and DX11 Support, it's clear to see, that DX12 often runs worse on Games which are build on DX11 and got a DX12 path patched in later. Even many games which are released with both options running better with DX11. Just a few games, where it seems like the DX12 path was in mind since the beginning core developement are able to make a profit out of the DX12 render path. It is NOT that easy, to bring a efficient DX12 or Vulkan render Path in a Game and Engine, which was optimised on DX11 from the beginning of the Game developement. It would require a whole rewrite down to the cores and basics of the game and engine itself to make this happen. And this additionally also affects many layers above. Might go up to re-programming most of the rides, shops, peep AI etc...

Some people sound like it is just a simple switch in a file header to change to DX12. Guys, it is not! It is not that easy to switch or add a new Render Path, doesn't matter if it's called DX12 or Vulkan. For a good implementation you need to implement this from the beginning, otherwise it might get messy like many games has shown in the last few years where DX12 performed worse than DX11.
 
… There's a reason most developers still haven't gone all in on DX12 (Frontier certainly aren't in the minority on this), the adoption rate of Windows 10 has been painfully slow. ...
As a heavy Win7 user who was forced to switch to win10 i can understand the hesitation. My Win7 systems, including a very TINY renderfarm, could run for months even under constant duress.
--> WARNING: Nerd Talk! --> My personal record for a win7 system running constantly without a crash or reboot: 5months, 1week, 2days. On Win10 that same record is at 3 weeks tops. [where is it]

Reverting back to Win98, that's how it felt like when i "upgraded" from 7 to 10, just with better graphics and a different BSoD screen [uhh]
I bet anyone who ever used win98 knows the feeling! [yesnod]
 
Reverting back to Win98, that's how it felt like when i "upgraded" from 7 to 10, just with better graphics and a different BSoD screen [uhh]
I bet anyone who ever used win98 knows the feeling! [yesnod]
That sounds like going from Win XP back to 98 [down]
 
I thought Windows 10 was the final version, and they would just keep updating it until infinity? (not for free of course).
 
I thought Windows 10 was the final version, and they would just keep updating it until infinity? (not for free of course).
Yes, I was just making a joke. Windows 12 is entirely fiction (at this time, anyway).

https://windowsreport.com/microsoft-windows-12/

It was an April's fools joke last year. Of course, Microsoft may have new product up it's sleeve. I don't think anyone really believes that Windows 10 is the last ever OS from them.
 

Joël

Volunteer Moderator
There's now an official answer to the question that this thread is about;

Yes, the next Planet Coaster update is focusing on performance and Quality of Life improvements for the game! The update is expected to be released in March 2019. This was confirmed in the Frontier Xtra livestream that was live earlier today and which can be found on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/frontierdevelopments
 

Chante Goodman

Community Manager
Frontier
I can confirm it is true! We will be releasing quality of life updates that we hope will improve the game for everyone, specifically loading times and Thememaker's Toolkit issues. If you still have problems after, we are completely dedicated to making the game more enjoyable for everyone through the quality of life updates! We are looking at an early March window for this update, but we will have more on this soon for you all! [yesnod][heart]
 
After very loooong time, I´m getting interested again. QoL update is better now then never, even though I think it would be better if such an update was released earlier. But thankies :). Looking forward to see/hear more about it :)
 
I can confirm it is true! We will be releasing quality of life updates that we hope will improve the game for everyone, specifically loading times and Thememaker's Toolkit issues. If you still have problems after, we are completely dedicated to making the game more enjoyable for everyone through the quality of life updates! We are looking at an early March window for this update, but we will have more on this soon for you all! [yesnod][heart]
Excellent news. Be sure to let the team know how much I (we) appreciate them!!!
 
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