Every time I use the axolotl I get surprised to see that they are tagged as "desert" and "aquatic"0. Besides, the decoration for the exhibit box doesn't look too desertish to me. Do any of you know if this biome is correct for the animal? I'm not an expert, so I can be wrong about this, but I always thought they would be better tagged as "tropical" or "temperate" instead of "desert".
is the axolotl a desert animal?
- Thread starter Aramar
- Start date
I took a look at lake Chalco and lake Xocomilico. They seem temperate and tropical and obviously aquatic. I currently don’t see anything that looks desert, feel free to correct me.
Doesn't look very desert like to me
Yes and no.
The biome around the body of water has a lot to say about the water itself, so it would affect what the species living in it can tolerate.
The desert pupfish would probably also be considered living in desert areas even though it lives an aquatic life
But it also looks very man-made. The question is how it looked before I guess
Found an impression of the old lake back in the 1500's before it was drained by humans. Mexico city sits entirely in the old lake basin leaving very little natural aquatic habitat left.
Old habitat:
Existing habitat :
So the Chihuahuan desert ends 250 north of Mexico City and they are described as they used to live in high-altitude lakes around the city. How far away "around" goes I don't know. (See pics below)
But the biomes in PZ has always been rather broad, so it might not be totally off. At least probably better than Taiga which is often used for high-altitude species
But the biomes in PZ has always been rather broad, so it might not be totally off. At least probably better than Taiga which is often used for high-altitude species
What in-game biome best represents scrubland? I guess a mix of desert and grasslands, right?
I'd feel like that's better than saying desert for the axolotl
I'd feel like that's better than saying desert for the axolotl
Well if we are being true to the source, Mexico city is in tropical deciduous forest or flooded grassland/savanna
I don't even know. I'm used to central Mexico, which is mountains and deserts.
So, maybe the axolotl should have the grassland and tropical tags, if it doesn't already?
Yeah it should most likely be aquatic and tropical tags applied, just judging based on the tropical foliage found near the lakes. Grasslands is a stretch but the surrounding areas around the city can be considered grassland. There is no desert nearby to consider this a desert species
Thank you all for your comments. After reading your answers and the information I've found online (for example, in the official website of Xochimilco (http://www.xochimilco.cdmx.gob.mx/flora-y-fauna/), I'm conviced now that the axolotl's desert tag should be changed for the temperate tag. Thefore, I've created an issue on the tracker: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/57648
Since axolotls are fully aquatic animals, the only biome suitability they should have in the game is the 'Aquatic' biome. Unlike all other animals in the game with 'Aquatic' biome suitability, axolotls are not semi-aquatic, due to neoteny. Metamorphosis can be artificially induced, but as its name suggests, it is artificially induced and is not part of an axolotl's natural life cycle.
Fully aquatic animals are not assigned terrestrial biome suitability in any classification system I'm accustomed with, as these habitats do not have a direct impact on their ecology (even though surrounding terrestrial habitats can influence aquatic habitats like @SalamAnders suggested), since by definition an organism has to directly interact with said terrestrial environment for it to be considered part of its ecology and axolotls do not interact with terrestrial environments.
Traditionally, even some semi-aquatic animals are not assigned major terrestrial biomes like forests, deserts and grasslands, unless these environments have a significant impact on an animal's ecology (e.g. used for hunting, grazing, etc.). For instance, if a species only uses the immediate surrounding terrestrial zone for basking and nesting, these are usually omitted, as the wetlands biome itself already includes both terrestrial and aquatic environments. Since there are no separate 'Aquatic' (which can further be divided into 'Freshwater' and 'Marine') and 'Wetlands' (also 'Coastal') biomes in the game, it is understandable for all semi-aquatics in Planet Zoo to have suitability for various terrestrial biomes, but with fully aquatic species it is a completely different story. Just like fully aquatic plants in the game (tagged 'Subaquatic'), our only fully aquatic animal should also only be given 'Aquatic' biome suitability.
As reference for separate wetlands and aquatic tagging, I am linking a book with a simplistic visual biome classification system just like in Planet Zoo. There you can see how semi-aquatic and fully aquatic habitats are identified and tagged for both inland (freshwater) and marine animals. You will notice that some of these animals are only tagged for fully aquatic or semi-aquatic habitats, while others are tagged for both. In some cases, you will also notice that these semi aquatic animals are also tagged for fully terrestrial habitats like forests and grasslands, in addition to aquatic and semi-aquatic habitats, as a third habitat type. You will also notice that fully aquatic animals in both freshwater and marine habitats are only tagged for aquatic habitats. I am also linking ADW as an online reference for a similar system, but with no icons, just text.
Even though it does not relate to the axolotl biome discussion, I want to say a few things about terrestrial habitats in and around Mexico City (where axolotls are endemic to). The region is a highland plateau surrounded by mountains and lies in the transitional zone between the Central Mexican matorral and Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt pine-oak forests ecoregions. The former is in the deserts and xeric shrublands biome and the latter is a coniferous montane forest mixed with some oak. The climate is semi-arid in the former and temperate in the latter. The Valley of Mexico has a minimum elevation of 2,200 meters, with the surrounding mountains reaching elevations of over 5,000 meters. The network of lakes and wetlands the axolotl is native to (some of which no longer exist) are located at an elevation of ~2,240-2,290 meters. Pine forests grow at altitudes of over 2,275 meters. The setting is anything but tropical.
Taking all this into consideration, if we were talking about a terrestrial or semi-aquatic animal from the region, the best way to handle terrestrial biome suitability would be by giving the species 'Taiga' and 'Desert' biome suitability to represent the two intergrading ecoregions and perhaps also 'Temperate' due to the existence of oak, despite the conifer-heavy forest composition. It is true that the region does not resemble a desert, even at lower elevations, but this is because here said ecoregion degrades into montane forests, so the resemblance is only marginal, which could be confusing at first glance.
Therefore, the default 2D façade and tropical plant enrichment items used in the game for axolotls representative of a tropical environment is inaccurate. Either a mountainous temperate/taiga setting should be used as a new backdrop for the current façade or the existing temperate wetlands 2D façade (used in bullfrog, crested newt and terrapin exhibits) should be the default one. As for the enrichment items, renaming these to "Aquatic Plant A-B-C" instead of "Tropical Plant A-B-C" should suffice. I don't see a need to change the actual plants as they are pretty generic-looking. The selection of xeric and temperate foliage used in the terrestrial section of the exhibit also looks fine, even though a land section isn't necessary in an axolotl exhibit.
Fully aquatic animals are not assigned terrestrial biome suitability in any classification system I'm accustomed with, as these habitats do not have a direct impact on their ecology (even though surrounding terrestrial habitats can influence aquatic habitats like @SalamAnders suggested), since by definition an organism has to directly interact with said terrestrial environment for it to be considered part of its ecology and axolotls do not interact with terrestrial environments.
Traditionally, even some semi-aquatic animals are not assigned major terrestrial biomes like forests, deserts and grasslands, unless these environments have a significant impact on an animal's ecology (e.g. used for hunting, grazing, etc.). For instance, if a species only uses the immediate surrounding terrestrial zone for basking and nesting, these are usually omitted, as the wetlands biome itself already includes both terrestrial and aquatic environments. Since there are no separate 'Aquatic' (which can further be divided into 'Freshwater' and 'Marine') and 'Wetlands' (also 'Coastal') biomes in the game, it is understandable for all semi-aquatics in Planet Zoo to have suitability for various terrestrial biomes, but with fully aquatic species it is a completely different story. Just like fully aquatic plants in the game (tagged 'Subaquatic'), our only fully aquatic animal should also only be given 'Aquatic' biome suitability.
As reference for separate wetlands and aquatic tagging, I am linking a book with a simplistic visual biome classification system just like in Planet Zoo. There you can see how semi-aquatic and fully aquatic habitats are identified and tagged for both inland (freshwater) and marine animals. You will notice that some of these animals are only tagged for fully aquatic or semi-aquatic habitats, while others are tagged for both. In some cases, you will also notice that these semi aquatic animals are also tagged for fully terrestrial habitats like forests and grasslands, in addition to aquatic and semi-aquatic habitats, as a third habitat type. You will also notice that fully aquatic animals in both freshwater and marine habitats are only tagged for aquatic habitats. I am also linking ADW as an online reference for a similar system, but with no icons, just text.
Even though it does not relate to the axolotl biome discussion, I want to say a few things about terrestrial habitats in and around Mexico City (where axolotls are endemic to). The region is a highland plateau surrounded by mountains and lies in the transitional zone between the Central Mexican matorral and Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt pine-oak forests ecoregions. The former is in the deserts and xeric shrublands biome and the latter is a coniferous montane forest mixed with some oak. The climate is semi-arid in the former and temperate in the latter. The Valley of Mexico has a minimum elevation of 2,200 meters, with the surrounding mountains reaching elevations of over 5,000 meters. The network of lakes and wetlands the axolotl is native to (some of which no longer exist) are located at an elevation of ~2,240-2,290 meters. Pine forests grow at altitudes of over 2,275 meters. The setting is anything but tropical.
Taking all this into consideration, if we were talking about a terrestrial or semi-aquatic animal from the region, the best way to handle terrestrial biome suitability would be by giving the species 'Taiga' and 'Desert' biome suitability to represent the two intergrading ecoregions and perhaps also 'Temperate' due to the existence of oak, despite the conifer-heavy forest composition. It is true that the region does not resemble a desert, even at lower elevations, but this is because here said ecoregion degrades into montane forests, so the resemblance is only marginal, which could be confusing at first glance.
Therefore, the default 2D façade and tropical plant enrichment items used in the game for axolotls representative of a tropical environment is inaccurate. Either a mountainous temperate/taiga setting should be used as a new backdrop for the current façade or the existing temperate wetlands 2D façade (used in bullfrog, crested newt and terrapin exhibits) should be the default one. As for the enrichment items, renaming these to "Aquatic Plant A-B-C" instead of "Tropical Plant A-B-C" should suffice. I don't see a need to change the actual plants as they are pretty generic-looking. The selection of xeric and temperate foliage used in the terrestrial section of the exhibit also looks fine, even though a land section isn't necessary in an axolotl exhibit.
The axolotly can grow whatsdemcalled, what fish breathe with under water. That indicates a wet environment rather than a desert. In between is arid climate and that's where axolotl breathes with normal lungs. Their specialty is living in wet and dry environment and have their breathing adapted for it. Should be some educational bit in wikipedia. Just googling environments where you can see axolotl doesn't bring you further, because it can live in both.
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Guess we got a general issue with the fact that there is no subtropical bio, as such a large part of the world got the climate/biozone. Mexico City got subtropical highland climate. Moving it to temperate would not be perfect as subtropical highland usually will not get below 0, whereas in temperate it is quite common with snow and negative temp. Desert is way off, their is desert not too far away, but the Axolotl won't survive in the area.
Well, it said so in Planet Zoo fandom.
https://planetzoo.fandom.com/wiki/Axolotl
planetzoo.fandom.com
https://planetzoo.fandom.com/wiki/Axolotl
Desert
Desert is a biome in Planet Zoo. Deserts can be found in North America, South America, Africa, Asia, and Oceania. Oceania, South America and Africa have a unique version of the desert. The temperature range for the desert biome is 8 to 38 degrees celsius, though it reach as high as 43 degrees...
planetzoo.fandom.com
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Right, because they have gills, it should actually be all aquatic, at least for the game. Regionally they are found in the aquatic areas of semi-tropical/desert/grasslands, but they're not actually living in those environments. And that's in real life, it's even more so in the game. Outside of temperatures having to be adjusted on the standard exhibits, I'm don't think it really matters biomewise in the game where you put them, they're going to be in an exhibit that's designed around aquatic use regardless.
there's already subtropical biome in planet zoo, it is included in tropical (southern china for instance)
but subtropical highland isn't part of any of these two (imagine the andes and himalayas being tropical...)
that depends, look at australia for instance
temperate biome across east coast but no snow
what do you mean it won't survive there? as long as it is in cool enough water it doesn't matter what the surrounding environment is
not like it can survive on land elsewhere, it isn't just a desert problem
Thanks for your info