Is the Oculus dead? Harsh words by LinusTech

This is my Pros and Cons list based on my personal experience using both in home.

Rift
Pros:
Lighter
Better Optics
Built in headphones

Cons:
Seated only or stand at your desk VR
VR controller cost extra
Padding is meh (for me)

Vive
Whole room VR
Better software and support (Steam)
Very soft pads

Cons:
Heavy (made my neck hurt after a few mins)
Optics have lines and is blurry when looking around
No headphones
Makes my face sweat and feel hot.
I have to change room scaling when playing ED (more so because of how my room it setup)

Personally. I like the Rift much more than the Vive and it kind of hurts to say because I love the whole room VR.
If I could use the Rift with the Vive whole room system, that would be my dream.


PS: I think the Vive sucks for playing ED.
PPS: The Vive software was making my GPU run at 100% when doing nothing. Didn't stop until I ended the task.
 
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This is my Pros and Cons list based on my personal experience using both in home.

Rift
Pros:
Lighter
Better Optics
Built in headphones

Cons:
Seated only or stand at your desk VR
VR controller cost extra
Padding is meh (for me)

Vive
Whole room VR
Better software and support (Steam)
Very soft pads

Cons:
Heavy (made my neck hurt after a few mins)
Optics have lines and is blurry when looking around
No headphones
Makes my face sweat and feel hot.
I have to change room scaling when playing ED (more so because of how my room it setup)

Personally. I like the Rift much more than the Vive and it kind of hurts to say because I love the whole room VR.
If I could use the Rift with the Vive whole room system, that would be my dream.


PS: I think the Vive sucks for playing ED.
PPS: The Vive software was making my GPU run at 100% when doing nothing. Didn't stop until I ended the task.

Thanks. Balanced information. So basically, if it's for E: D only it should be the Rift, and for room scale options as well it should be the Vive. I'm still no closer. <insert swear word here>
 
Since the rifts software lineup got mentioned many times: You guys do know that every single one of them works perfectly fine with the vive right?
 
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Thanks. Balanced information. So basically, if it's for E: D only it should be the Rift, and for room scale options as well it should be the Vive. I'm still no closer. <insert swear word here>

He doesn't own a Vive. If he did he'd know it comes with pretty decent headphones. The rest is just the random nonsense he picked up on reddit.

The Vive has some shortcomings: E.g. the straps being too short to counterbalance the minimal weight, the cornea-lens distance being absurdly huge even without the default foam pads, lack of an IPD calibration tool. The front camera is as useless a hole in the head and chaperone is only needed when demonstrating it to strangers not familiar with the room.

On the other hand, most Rift games all imply you like console controllers, don't own mouse, Keyboard, Wheel or HOTAS and take you to third person to avoid motion sickness by eliminating presence which is the entire point of VR.

Of course you also like headphones because you still live with your parents, you also like facebook and you accept artificial platform exclusivity as an anti-piracy measure because (?).

Choice - really a tough one.
 
Good heavens you're a feisty little fellow aren't you. ;) No matter. I shared the video as I am one of I think many who are still on the fence about what to buy and when.

I personally think it's really hard to decide. Thus I read what information I can find, pros and cons, and share when I see something that I would like likeminded commanders opinion on. Obviously you and I are not likeminded. But I don't mind. :)

Feisty yep. however even though you said nothing in your original post about being an undecided shopper, my points about the video you posted should not dissuade you from continuing to seeking an informed decision. Like minded, not with the reviewer that is obvious. As many of us, myself included have made are decisions after reviewing as many reviews as we could and based our decisions based on how we play, I trust you will find the answers that help you make the best decision for your particular situation if you continue your research. I own a Rift and have said in this forum that if I wanted a robust room scale I would own a Vive. Any differences between those 2 HMDs will be minor by year's end. You will be happy with either as far as first gen devices go. You will see a couple more that are likely to be of the same specs soon as well. There are no bad answers, only bad (biased) reviews.
There are many reviews both biased and not, don't stop at one, however this one is one of the most fair I have seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agrc2OmAEYg
 
He doesn't own a Vive. If he did he'd know it comes with pretty decent headphones...

Wait, what? The Vive comes with headphones?

...Any differences between those 2 HMDs will be minor by year's end. You will be happy with either as far as first gen devices go...

Yeah, with Oculus touch and multiple cameras around the corner, the options (and prices) will become more similar.

On a side note, living in Europe, the added 20% tax on the rift is a bit hard to swallow. Plus as it only ships from the US, warranty is limited to 1 year compared to the 2 years if I buy the Vive here in Europe. This would also make things easier if problems arise, taking it to the local store instead of shipping to the US. I guess the logical choice for Europeans would be the Vive in this regard.
 
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25% tax in Europe on the Rift? Wow, no wonder the Brits want out of the EU. Don't feel too bad. Given the Canadian dollar my Rift was no bargain compared to the Yanks, however VR was worth every penny.
 
He doesn't own a Vive. If he did he'd know it comes with pretty decent headphones. The rest is just the random nonsense he picked up on reddit.
The earbuds? I hate earbuds.

On the other hand, most Rift games all imply you like console controllers, don't own mouse, Keyboard, Wheel or HOTAS and take you to third person to avoid motion sickness by eliminating presence which is the entire point of VR.
It's strange. Vive games run fine on my rift.

But as to Rift games I have this, and Project Cars and a flight sim. Though 2/3rds support 3rd person, none are intended to run that way.

Another popular game (heck: it's in the demo) is Climb which is... um... yea: first person.

Of course you also like headphones because you still live with your parents, you also like facebook and you accept artificial platform exclusivity as an anti-piracy measure because (?).

Hters gonna hate.

I, for one, am glad these games got made. You can prefer that they were never made due to lack of funds; but I think what Oculus did helps us all... even vive users who get these games (that would otherwise not exist) a month later.

Try some patience.
 
He doesn't own a Vive. If he did he'd know it comes with pretty decent headphones. The rest is just the random nonsense he picked up on reddit.

The Vive has some shortcomings: E.g. the straps being too short to counterbalance the minimal weight, the cornea-lens distance being absurdly huge even without the default foam pads, lack of an IPD calibration tool. The front camera is as useless a hole in the head and chaperone is only needed when demonstrating it to strangers not familiar with the room.

On the other hand, most Rift games all imply you like console controllers, don't own mouse, Keyboard, Wheel or HOTAS and take you to third person to avoid motion sickness by eliminating presence which is the entire point of VR.

Of course you also like headphones because you still live with your parents, you also like facebook and you accept artificial platform exclusivity as an anti-piracy measure because (?).

Choice - really a tough one.

Yes, I do own a Vive and Rift. And no, it does not come with headphones. It comes earbuds and I think they suck.
Random nonsense like it being heavier and making my face sweat? I guess you need to put down other peoples opinion to make your own stand taller.

Also, having headphones does not mean you live with your parents. I can use HOTAS with the Rift and buying a rift does not mean you agree with what they do.
 
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Wow, now the fanboys are out! :D

Seriously, either is a good buy. Its still very early in the game, and we've seen Oculus at least respond to consumer backlash when they made a wrong turn with DRM.

The Rift is the hands-down HMD for ED right now. The Vive has some issues with visual clarity in ED (fixable if you have a powerful video card), and also suffers from some bright sparklies around the edges that may or may not be visible depending on your personal peripheral vision.

For roomscale games like Hover Junkers etc, the Vive is a clear winner since it has already got the hand controllers. Rift can't compete until Oculus releases the Touch controllers. If you absolutely really must have roomscale now, then get the Vive. If you want to test the waters, try more sit-down experiences first, like cars or flight-sims ProjectCars, ED, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally etc, and hold off on the hand controllers, then perhaps the Rift is a better fit.

Both have their fans for the design and ergonomics, but the Rift is a clear winner for both, despite peole's personal opinions. Both will give you VR-face. However, longterm, the (simpler) Vive might end up deing a bit more robust, as we've seen some cables etc break on the Rift and its nigh-impossible to fix yourself due to the (better?) integrated design.

The biggest misconception is that the Rift is not capable of roomscale. It is capable, but the Touch controllers haven't shipped yet. These will include a second sensor and you'd have a similar setup to the Vive for roomscale games.

I haven't checked recent prices, but the Rift was significantly cheaper than the Vive. If you buy a Rift, count on buying the Touch controllers for about 200USD and go from there.

On motion sickness - if you don't get car/air/sea-sick and have an iron gut otherwise, don't be fooled into thinking you'll be the same in VR. Some do get a rude shock, being fine in real life and then turn into puke machines in VR. For me, its the other way round, I'm not great IRL, but fine in the Rift for hours on end doing barrel rolls and bouncing over jumps on planets in ED. Just saying, be aware of it.

One good point is seeing the almost religious fervour seen here, on Reddit and various 'review' sites and forums, you can bet that purchasing either headset will bring some great moments and absolutely floor you. And drive you mad sometimes. Or make you throw up. Rarely does such polarisation indicate a simply average/meh product.
 
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The biggest misconception is that the Rift is not capable of roomscale. It is capable, but the Touch controllers haven't shipped yet. These will include a second sensor and you'd have a similar setup to the Vive for roomscale games.

Room Scale with one camera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_HlXzELHgo&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=UploadVR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyNKR_-uKfs&ab_channel=UploadVR

With two cameras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXrJu-zOzm4&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=UploadVR


I would like some kind of chaperone system for the Rift and maybe extension cables.


OP:
You could wait and see what the Vive 2.0 looks like. I would guess it could use USB-Type C for power, data, and video.
If you live near a Best Buy, you can buy the Rift and return it
 
... However, longterm, the (simpler) Vive might end up deing a bit more robust, as we've seen some cables etc break on the Rift and its nigh-impossible to fix yourself due to the (better?) integrated design...

This reminds me again, that warranty is actually an issue if you're in Europe. Having a 2 year local warranty (Vive) compared to a 1 year overseas one (Oculus - add shipping)? Worth considering at least.


... OP:
You could wait and see what the Vive 2.0 looks like. I would guess it could use USB-Type C for power, data, and video.
If you live near a Best Buy, you can buy the Rift and return it

Cheers Commander. Yeah I'm kinda hovering right now, contemplating Vive 2.0 versus full package Rift. I'm in Denmark, so no Best Buy for me. :)
 
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This reminds me again, that warranty is actually an issue if you're in Europe. Having a 2 year local warranty (Vive) compared to a 1 year overseas one (Oculus - add shipping)? Worth considering at least.




Cheers Commander. Yeah I'm kinda hovering right now, contemplating Vive 2.0 versus full package Rift. I'm in Denmark, so no Best Buy for me. :)

Hovering is the cheapest option :). You can see what directions they will go.
One aspect I didn't see anyone mention is future games. Check whats coming out in the year or so and see if there is anything you like.
 
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Actually pretty good ones, comparable to 80€ Sennheiser and Sony products I use. They're earplugs though, so providing for a better bass experience compared to the single use airline-headphones facebook forces on you.

Better bass experience? If anything, the Rift headphones are rolled off in the treble, but they're a step above the overpriced Sony and Beats garbage on the shelf at Best Buy.
 
Actually pretty good ones, comparable to 80€ Sennheiser and Sony products I use. They're earplugs though, so providing for a better bass experience compared to the single use airline-headphones facebook forces on you.
Better bass experience? If anything, the Rift headphones are rolled off in the treble, but they're a step above the overpriced Sony and Beats garbage on the shelf at Best Buy.

Hopefully Catpain is just exaggerating to make his point. He's probably some sort of audiophile who turns his nose up at any equipment that costs less that £1000. The quality of the inbuilt headphones of my Rift are definitely better than the headset I was using, but then I was using Logitech headphones so I don't think that tells anyone reading this anything at all.

The case for the Oculus headphones has been made many times on this forum. They are fairly good quality. They have no dangling wires and so they make putting on your headset as easy as fitting a baseball cap. You don't have to insert anything in your ears. And because game makers know the vast majority of VR players aren't going to give themselves the hassle for that slight diminishing-return extra bit of sound quality, they know exactly what kind of headphones their customers are using and they can tailor their sounds for those headphones.
 
Hopefully Catpain is just exaggerating to make his point. He's probably some sort of audiophile who turns his nose up at any equipment that costs less that £1000.

Absolutely - that's the reason I compare it to 80€ Earbuds ;). Anyway - I prefer using speakers wherever possible, but my first thought on seeing the Oculus headphones was "the eighties called and want their headphones back". I've always avoided supra-aural Headphones and either used circumaural headphones or earplugs (in ear canal since they're available) due to their better ambient sealing and bass properties.
All the supra-aural headphones that came bundled with personal stereos during the eighties/nineties went right into the trash after unboxing.

Anyway. It's always funny how people immediately come up with the term "fanboy" as soon as someone criticises the device they're a fan of, disregarding all criticisms the alleged "fanboy" has made in regards to the alternative product. Says more about their own mind-set than anything else.
 
Hopefully Catpain is just exaggerating to make his point. He's probably some sort of audiophile who turns his nose up at any equipment that costs less that £1000. The quality of the inbuilt headphones of my Rift are definitely better than the headset I was using, but then I was using Logitech headphones so I don't think that tells anyone reading this anything at all.

The case for the Oculus headphones has been made many times on this forum. They are fairly good quality. They have no dangling wires and so they make putting on your headset as easy as fitting a baseball cap. You don't have to insert anything in your ears. And because game makers know the vast majority of VR players aren't going to give themselves the hassle for that slight diminishing-return extra bit of sound quality, they know exactly what kind of headphones their customers are using and they can tailor their sounds for those headphones.

I consider myself a fair bit of an Audiophile or at least an AV geek.
But CATPAIN is also completely disregarding the physics and psychoacustics of audio.
Well that's also par for the course for most enthusiasts. And how the industry can sell $10000/m speaker cables.

Speakers depend on a sweetspot and for most average living rooms that spot is maybe at most 50cm in all six directions.
And the major tenant in audio and especially surround sound setups is calibration. Calibration calibration and more calibration. Of course after position position position.

You move your ears half a meter up or down and you will move in and out of various standing waves especially for bass response, this could be as much as 20db! difference between one listener position and another at certain frequencies.

I have personally been in homes with equipment as expensive as the house and the difference between one seat and another is audio nirvana and just hell.


Even if you had 7+ absolutely identical speakers plus an array of subwoofers it would be impossible to get decent frequency response over the entire room unless you did some major software processing voodoo using 3d positional tracking.
Technically possible to do this with vr but would be a very lengthy calibration process, insanely expensive to actually develop and purchase for the end user and it still will be less flexible than a pair of cans both for vr and in regards to fidelity, albeit they can't do tactile bass like a subwoofer array.

One problem so far is neither oculus or vive has given much care to audio, I honestly suspect they are having driver issues and I suspect the chief issue is from the windows hdmi audio driver that has a hard coded crossover at 80hz range settings, when you run audio out hdmi it is mostly to an av receiver, if you then don't have a sub it pushes that lfe back into the front speakers and it sounds a bit like at least the vive doesn't do that.
The rift might be using usb for audio, but it's kind of hard to tell since the on set headphones distort rather badly in the low end.

But my point is by EVERY consideration headsets are the best choice for VR.
If you think a stereo headset can't do positionall give this a listen using regular stereo cans, earplugs whatever you have.
[video=youtube;IUDTlvagjJA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA[/video]
Any speaker setup would do fine if you are in a very limited seated sim type VR, like ED. If that is the only thing you do with an HMD then speakers will do better audio than cans.
But I don't consider that or the rift really as real VR anymore, it's playing games with a stereo HMD nothing more, it's a brilliant way to play but to me VR = room play.
Discussion done.

Personally I don't bother too hard with pc-audio you can only squeeze so much blood from a stone. I use my PC for gaming mostly and most game audio is just rendered from compressed to death assets anyways, using external "HiFi" dac's etc to output audio is also really not that good an idea considering latency issues, you kind of want to hear that audio cue on cue and not 400ms later.

So on the PC I play with regular cans and I do use the actually headphones supplied on the rift cause why not, they are practical and on par with pretty much any other gaming set of cans most games are designed to anyways.
 
Oh and logitech cans. Dear God don't get me started on logitech cans...

They are just horribly overpriced and just dreadful, fairly comfortable though but that's it.
 
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