Astronomy / Space Is the universe expanding faster than the speed of light?

I think the answer would depend on exactly what Dark Matter and Dark Energy are. The former accounts for 96% of the mass of the universe (probably) and holds all the matter in galaxies together, while the latter seems to be accelerating the galaxies apart ever faster. "Dark" is a bit of a misnomer though; it's not actually dark but more like invisible from our current point of view.

Maybe on the way to this other galaxy, you could send a message back to us and let us know what the hell all this stuff is that you'll be driving through :p
 
False

What is the speed of light? It's certainly not constant, as it's proven that gravity will affect its speed and can even warp it.

If you don't think this is the case, why can you not see the centre of a black hole? Because gravity is too strong for light to escape.

Therefore light Isn't the fastest thing.

Spot on Bikky! I have believed in the same theory for a long time now. The speed of light is variable because we can easily slow it down by passing it through different mediums. It can also be speeded up (past 186k/s) by the gravitational forces of a black hole.

As for the acceleration of the expansion of the universe, maybe the universe is already on its way back (contracting) and that is the reason for acceleration.

If you throw a tennis ball up into the air, at the point where it leaves your hand it starts to slow down due to the gravity of Earth. It never accelerates going up. It only accelerates on its way back down towards the Earth (contraction). Maybe a similar thing is going on with the universe. Maybe the universe is already contracting towards a huge amount of unknown matter that was AT the origin of the universe itself.

Just another theory of mine....
 
Last edited:
Spot on Bikky! I have believed in the same theory for a long time now. The speed of light is variable because we can easily slow it down by passing it through different mediums. It can also be speeded up (past 186k/s) by the gravitational forces of a black hole.

Well, that's not really what happens in either case. Light does travel at a constant speed, but not in a straight line - it chooses the route of least energy (and least time), which appears more or less as a straight line to us, but actually involves a lot of weaving about through various particles. This is what causes mirages - light from the sky bends when approaching a hot surface from a shallow angle, making it appear as though it's come from somewhere on the ground. When light appears to move slower in a different medium, it's actually just taking a longer path.

Similarly, in the case of a black hole (or gravity in general), it's actually space (and time) that's stretched, meaning the route of least energy (and least time) is stretched with it. In all cases, light continues to travel at a constant speed.

If you throw a tennis ball up into the air, at the point where it leaves your hand it starts to slow down due to the gravity of Earth. It never accelerates going up. It only accelerates on its way back down towards the Earth (contraction). Maybe a similar thing is going on with the universe. Maybe the universe is already contracting towards a huge amount of unknown matter that was the origin of the universe itself.

Just another theory of mine....

A ball in the air is under constant acceleration towards the Earth. If it never accelerated on the way up, it'd never stop going up.

Everything in the Universe is moving away from everything else, which would only happen if space was expanding. If it was contracting, everything would be moving closer together, and it isn't.

How fast it's expanding is a different question entirely. It mostly depends on how big it is, and we can't even see most of it so we've got no idea.
 
Well, that's not really what happens in either case. Light does travel at a constant speed, but not in a straight line - it chooses the route of least energy (and least time), which appears more or less as a straight line to us, but actually involves a lot of weaving about through various particles. This is what causes mirages - light from the sky bends when approaching a hot surface from a shallow angle, making it appear as though it's come from somewhere on the ground. When light appears to move slower in a different medium, it's actually just taking a longer path.

Could you be helpful in providing the source of this info....

Similarly, in the case of a black hole (or gravity in general), it's actually space (and time) that's stretched, meaning the route of least energy (and least time) is stretched with it. In all cases, light continues to travel at a constant speed.

Again, could you provide me withe source for this info

A ball in the air is under constant acceleration towards the Earth. If it never accelerated on the way up, it'd never stop going up.

I think you are confusing speed with acceleration. Acceleration is the increase in speed. The tennis ball decelerates going up until it stops and then falls back to earth accelerating in speed as it comes back.

Everything in the Universe is moving away from everything else, which would only happen if space was expanding. If it was contracting, everything would be moving closer together, and it isn't.

Not necessarily. You are making the assumption that the Big Bang occurred at one specific point. Also, 'acceleration of expansion' can only be explained by contraction and not inflation.
 
Information can get from point A to point B faster than light when Quantum Entanglement is used to send it.

There is quantum activity within our own brains that some researchers are investigating the posibility due to a quantum cohesion properties that this activity could exist after death.

Existence is strange and far more complicated with many more wierd possibilities than almost anyone yet can imagine, or that to me seems to be the way it unfolds the more one reads about it all.

Basically what I am saying is the real truth of this discussion we may one day know for sure but that day I think has not arrived yet.
 
Last edited:
I suppose if it is expanding outwards in every direction at the speed of light then in directly opposite directions its expanding at twice the speed of light. IE moving at light speed north and south at the same time from a central point
 
I think the best thing to say is that the universe APPEARS to be expanding and that this expansion APPEARS to be accelerating.

But like I said earlier, acceleration is consistent with the contraction theory rather than the expansion theory.

As for the universe expanding faster than the speed of light....

Well, how long does it take an ant wearing army boots to walk around the lid of a jam jar? - Your guess is as good as mine :)
 
They use dark matter as a kind of repulsing energy to explain how the universe is expanding at an ever greater rate as time passes.

Basically the great minds make up stuff that fits then go about trying to find evidence of it being true.
 
Just been doing some off the cuff calculations based on the observable size of the universe and it's rate of expansion.

Looks like if everything in the universe is expanding, and I do mean everything including you, me, the planet, the space between atoms, quarks, the whole shebang, then...

At the current rate of expansion, scaled down to 1cm on a ruler, that 1cm is getting larger by a ridiculously small amount.

Perhaps we are all expanding in the Universe, and accelerating at that, which could mean that mass/gravity is an effect of our quantum expansion in the universe.
 
If the universe is expanding at light speed or near to it then we are at that relatively special short period of existence where we can see other stars for during the vast majority of the universe to yet be they will be too far away to ever be able to see.

Not my theory but something interesting said by professor brian cox.
 
...plus it's recently been shown that 97% of all the stars there'll ever be have already been and gone; star formation has tailed off to a tiny fraction of its heyday.

So as far as the universe's star-bearing period is concerned, it's practically all over. Has been for eons.

We're late to the party indeed. :eek:

Ed: Ref
 
Last edited:
Current theory states the universe is 14 billion years old and 46 billion light years radius. Does this mean expansion is occurring faster than the speed of light? Does this contradict relativity? Does it mean it is impossible for light to travel to the other side of the universe? (barring wormholes or other FTL travel).
<snip>

I believe the current theory is that there was a period of very rapid expansion at the beginning which slowed and is apparently now speeding up again.

Objects are still limited to the speed of light limitation, but their point of origin would be further away giving a false impression over large timescales.

Khan Academy has a good video on this.
 
...plus it's recently been shown that 99.99% of all the stars there'll ever be have already been and gone; star formation has tailed off to a tiny fraction of its heyday.

So as far as the universe's star-bearing period is concerned, it's practically all over. Has been for eons.

We're late to the party indeed. :eek:

So when we get warp drives and go to the stars we find out that most do not exist anymore just their light that travels, and we feel even more alone.
 
Could you be helpful in providing the source of this info....

I recommend Some Consequences of the Generalised Uncertainty Principle: Statistical Mechanical, Cosmological, and Varying Speed of Light (S. Kalyana Rama, 2001) and ‘c’ is the speed of light, isn’t it? (George F.R. Ellis, Jean-Philippe Uzan, 2008) for some good reading.

The former is more concerned with quantum fluctuations, focusing on the fact that you cannot predict a single photon's path or perceived speed through a medium, however it does state that the average velocity (specifically the mean velocity) is reduced in a denser, due to the fact that the photons are travelling in a wider range of directions (and therefore have different velocities).

The latter questions the fundamental problems with a varying speed of light, and also covers the difference between the electromagnetic constant (i.e. the "actual" speed of light) and the relativistic constant (i.e. the "speed limit" of the universe).

I think you are confusing speed with acceleration. Acceleration is the increase in speed. The tennis ball decelerates going up until it stops and then falls back to earth accelerating in speed as it comes back.

Acceleration is not the increase in speed. Acceleration is the change in velocity with respect to time. Deceleration is acceleration in the opposite direction.

Under standard Newtonian physics, a ball in the air on Earth accelerates towards the Earth at 9.8ms^-2. It doesn't matter whether the ball is travelling upwards, downwards, or in no direction whatsoever, it's still accelerating downwards.

Not necessarily. You are making the assumption that the Big Bang occurred at one specific point. Also, 'acceleration of expansion' can only be explained by contraction and not inflation.

Where am I making the assumption that the Big Bang occurred specific point? I said everything is moving apart from everything else. This is an observable fact. Every galaxy supercluster is moving away from ours. The further away they are, the faster they are moving. This also means that from the point of view of any supercluster, every other supercluster is moving away from it. I'll do a really crude diagram for you now:

Code:
   1    2    3    4    5
   |    >    >>   >>>  >>>>

   1    2    3    4    5
  <<    <    |    >    >>

   1    2    3    4    5
<<<<  <<<   <<    <    |

From the point of view of 1, all other numbers are moving right (away from it).

Because 3 is moving to the right at a speed of two arrows from 1's frame of reference, all speeds relative to 3 can be obtained by subtracting two arrows right. Relative to 3, all numbers to the left are moving left (away from it), and all numbers to the right are moving right (away from it).

You can do the same for 5. Or 2. Or 4. You could expand this model into two, or three, or n dimensions, and exactly the same rules apply. There is no need to have a fixed point anywhere.


Also, 'acceleration of expansion' is not only not explained by contraction, it's explicitly contradicted! How can expansion be happening faster when it's not happening at all? EDIT: For clarification, by that I mean that it wouldn't be referred to as "acceleration of expansion" at all, it'd be referred to as "thank god we're not all doomed as early as we thought we would". Or "contraction reduction", whatever.
 
Last edited:
Current theory states the universe is 14 billion years old and 46 billion light years radius. Does this mean expansion is occurring faster than the speed of light? Does this contradict relativity? Does it mean it is impossible for light to travel to the other side of the universe? (barring wormholes or other FTL travel).
<snip>

to re-iterate the original question,

If we can only see for 14 billion light years, how can we tell it is 46 billion light years radius???
 
The evidence for expansion is quite comprehensive.

When a police car goes past you sirens blaring, it seems higher pitch as it approaches and lower pitch as it goes away from you. This is because as the sound waves are emitted from an approaching object the waves are compressed relative to you (as each peak and trough of the wave is emitted, the car has gotten a bit closer to you) - As it moves away, the reverse is true.

A similar effect happens with light as it passes through space of changing size, but things need to be moving a lot faster for the effect to be seen.

Every star has an absorption spectrum. It generates a continuous spectrum of light, but as the light exits the star, some of the star's atoms that get in the way absorb out the light that exactly matches the energy required to push their electrons into energetically excited states. The net effect is if you project the light from a star through a prism, there will be thin bands of darkness where no light exists. These bands are characteristic to specific atoms or molecules, and always get absorbed at the same place in the spectrum.

Therefore, if you see the dark bands shifted towards the red end of the spectrum, the object that emitted the light is moving away from you very fast. If they are shifted towards the blue end, the object is moving towards you very fast.

Every galaxy is to some degree red shifted. Every galaxy is therefore moving away from us.

Secondly, you've got galactic distances. Certain stellar events are known to give off a specific amount of light, and the degree to which light intensity drops off with distance is calculable. So if you can find such an event in a galaxy, you can work out how far away it is mathematically.

It turns out that the further away a galaxy is from us, the faster the galaxy is moving away from us (or us from it; it's all relative).
 
to re-iterate the original question,

If we can only see for 14 billion light years, how can we tell it is 46 billion light years radius???

Because 14 billion years ago, those stars were 14 billion light years away from us. The light travelled towards us for 14 billion years, while the stars travelled away from us for 14 billion years.

Now their actual location will be 46 billion light years away.

EDIT: Actually I suppose I ought to correct that if we send light back towards them, it will never actually reach them. Due to the acceleration of the expansion of the universe, the most distant observable objects from us can end up flying away faster and faster, such that anything more than a certain distance from us is now moving too fast for any light to catch up.
 
Last edited:
Because 14 billion years ago, those stars were 14 billion light years away from us. The light travelled towards us for 14 billion years, while the stars travelled away from us for 14 billion years.

Now their actual location will be 46 billion light years away. If we sent light back to them now, it would take 46 billion years for it to reach them.

but 14 billion light years ago (at the big bang) everything was at a single point was it not. so how could the stars have been 14 billion light years away?
 
Back
Top Bottom