Is there enough "game" in this game?
- Thread starter Gavin Burke
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It's both and it's neither.
We have Arcadium combaticus when you want to play a game.
We have Scintificus approximatus when you want to immerse yourself in a simulation.
In the far distance future, when concepts like "the norm" have long been forgotten, when it's OK for a Simulation and a Game to really love each other.. that's how things like Elite come to be.
We have Arcadium combaticus when you want to play a game.
We have Scintificus approximatus when you want to immerse yourself in a simulation.
In the far distance future, when concepts like "the norm" have long been forgotten, when it's OK for a Simulation and a Game to really love each other.. that's how things like Elite come to be.
More like a house with no TV. You can still sit there & watch, but it'll be boring. Find something to do. Go look in the garage. Oh wow, a spaceship
Always been enough 'game'.
Problem I have is with 'content' getting in the way of gameplay.
I just need the space.
Problem I have is with 'content' getting in the way of gameplay.
I just need the space.
I sometimes feel like I'm almost unique. ED does exactly what I want it to, and they keep adding things in that I didn't know I wanted, but actually rather enjoy.
I love the pace (or, rather, that you can set your own), the look, the ability to be immersed in your own world or make up your own backstory. ED does all the things I wanted the original to do.
Apart from the occasional light whinging about random things (like how PowerPlay is all wrong), I'm really very happy with all this (waves hand vaguely in the direction of ED).
Yeah, OK, it's missing a bit of depth, but it's not really a story-driven game (apart from your own story) - but I just make those bits up myself if and when I feel I need to: I'm just happy to be flying about pretending to be a spaceship pilot. I find it wonderfully relaxing after a hard day at work, or a nice change of pace from a hectic social life. I don't grind (at least it doesn't feel like it), I don't exploit and I haven't really got an end-game in mind (though I would like to fly at least one or two of the big three one day). I play it as a sort-of-sim, not an arcade game.
I realise that some folk want more value-for-money for their game purchase with all the bells and whistles and some sort of objective, and I'm glad these forums give them somewhere to vent their dissatisfaction; but I'm equally sure there's quite a few - like me - who just hunker down and get on with having fun.
After all, it's only a game (even though my fiancée sometimes thinks I'm having an affair with the lady who voices the ship's computer).
I love the pace (or, rather, that you can set your own), the look, the ability to be immersed in your own world or make up your own backstory. ED does all the things I wanted the original to do.
Apart from the occasional light whinging about random things (like how PowerPlay is all wrong), I'm really very happy with all this (waves hand vaguely in the direction of ED).
Yeah, OK, it's missing a bit of depth, but it's not really a story-driven game (apart from your own story) - but I just make those bits up myself if and when I feel I need to: I'm just happy to be flying about pretending to be a spaceship pilot. I find it wonderfully relaxing after a hard day at work, or a nice change of pace from a hectic social life. I don't grind (at least it doesn't feel like it), I don't exploit and I haven't really got an end-game in mind (though I would like to fly at least one or two of the big three one day). I play it as a sort-of-sim, not an arcade game.
I realise that some folk want more value-for-money for their game purchase with all the bells and whistles and some sort of objective, and I'm glad these forums give them somewhere to vent their dissatisfaction; but I'm equally sure there's quite a few - like me - who just hunker down and get on with having fun.
After all, it's only a game (even though my fiancée sometimes thinks I'm having an affair with the lady who voices the ship's computer).
i would bet less then 1000 people will be playing ED around the 3 year mark
Hmm, maybe that's the problem, I don't see it at all as "only" a game as there's little in the way of guided gameplay (storyline as such, like is traditional for a game to be a game) but a hell of a lot of content but that has to be found and the storyline is whatever you make of it - but I prefer the former where there is a story, I can play the game rather than just attend...
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True - and I think Frontier are doing a tremendous job with this delicate balance as on one hand, it's as you say, not a throw-away game where you get Elite in a year then end... but at the same time it's got to be gamey enough for you to want to spend a year to get Elite, if that makes sense.
The progress seems lacking for it's reason (i.e. WHY did I need to do such an action), is probably the best statement I can come up with for my feeling on the original post!
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I expect all players want that feeling of uniqueness.
The immersiveness is undeniable, it's just the feeling, or maybe lack of it, of being needed inside the universe like my actions matter - like for example it would in a linear single player game.
I think I defo sit in that barrell, not that I want all the bells and whistles but an objective. The ships being unlocked with ranks, for example, adds a nice reason to be aligned (contrary to most the forum posts it seems!) but these all look to sit into a "side quests" pile rather than the main goal.
FD made numerous 'game-like' decisions. I am not going to list them as they are blatantly obvious.
It definitely is not an app and to even suggest that is simply ridiculous.
You seem to think there is no room between a gamey approach and creating an app, which is preposterous.
In some respects ED is more sim-like in others ED is more gamey.
ED is simply ED. If you don't want that then don't play it.
Docking is more than quick enough, same goes for planetary landings.
I don't know what you are on about, but I am beginning to suspect that this is not the game for you at all.
If you want a more simplistic gamey approach then look for games like x-wing and tie fighter, or strike suit zero (You might have to buy a pc for those).
Personally I would like these aspects to become even more sim like.
That might be an x-box problem. Report it so FD can look into it.
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It doesn't necessarily need a story to add depth. I think people just want more stuff they can do. I don't like how flying my spaceship consists of pointing it at a dot, seeing what the countdown timer says, turning my chair around and watching TV for that amount of time. This isn't about turning Elite into in a Mass Effect game. Elite needs more gameplay.
Also have to remember it's starting to be a crowded (excuse the pun) SPACE.
Frontier made space sims cool again. No doubt. BUT competition is pretty stiff. Regardless if you're the pioneer of the genre, if others over take you, you'll find yourself in a position where you are trying to compete for your own space.
I'm afraid that Elite is being taken over, core mechanics that many crave are being fundamentally built into some of these new games core. It's almost like the competition loiter on these forums, with a big notepad, and come up with goods that just cater for that wishlist of mine.
Throw away gameplay mechanics aren't a bad thing if it advances the player. I'd prefer throwaway game play IF it allows me to achieve a goal, or an aspiration. Just for the fact that it's throwaway means that it doesn't have to be repeated, thus eliminating GRIND. If engineers was an engaging throwaway experience to say, rescue farseer from a prison cell somewhere.. or Todd or Liz or whoever needed YOUR help to unlock them in some engaging one off epic throwaway game play arc, then hell yes. Go through some Mass Effect style mission or whatever.. then sign me up. There's so much that can be done with scripted game play that can be classed as throwaway, and you know, it's CONTENT. Instead we have grind walls. Boring grind walls.
I know what I'd prefer.
No, it's not an Xbox problem, as I have it in live and I'm on a PC. There may be some things support can do to help with the problem, but they couldn't do anything for me after a long running support ticket.
That said, as I pointed out in my earlier post, it seems to be have been solved in the 2.3 beta.
Question would be how can any 3rd person perspective game be immersive? Wildlands screwed up with being 3rd person only, when they started on the PC in 1st person to begin with the franchise..... it blows the mind they limited their game so dramatically by doing so. Immersion comes when you think you are there. You can't have that when looking over a shoulder or outside a cockpit. If you can, I'd have to say you are one easily pleased individual with a very limited scope.
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The wildlands magic npc spawning for me was where suspension of disbelief came in and it didn't ruin any of my enjoyment.
However on this forum you will find many people who've never heard of suspension of disbelief or are unwilling to even entertain the idea that it exists much less allow it to be used to explain some things in Elite.
One of the funniest things though is the people willing to accept insta death and respawn in an op but hate the idea of insta ship transfer or holo-lol and 3rd person turret cameras.
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OP, all I read from that is you bought a game you don't like or didn't expect. I've done it before but to say it's not a game is silly, it's just not your cup of tea...
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What I'm understanding from this thread is that the OP bought a game without doing much research into what kind of game it was, and after learning that it isn't the game he thought it was or wanted, now wants the game to be different so it matches his expectations.
Meanwhile those of us who spent the time to research what we were buying, and were attracted to it's depth and complexity in a world already flush with gamey arcadey space shooters, and are relatively overjoyed with the current game systems...well you can see why we might take issue. NOTE: being 'overjoyed' does not imply that we don't have or are not welcoming of constructive criticism of the current game.
On a slightly different topic, I also find it kind of funny that people complain about grind in a game that attempts to immerse you in the life of a career pilot. If you're trying to replicate the fictional life of a CAREER pilot, there will be grind, because that's what careers are! Even if you somewhat enjoy your career, it is mostly a grind! If the game is replicating real life in the sense that you must make money before you can buy or do what you want to do, then grind seems inescapable to me. Many players complain about how there's nothing to do once you've bought everything. Ha! Just like real life, kid! And the same lesson is to be learned from the game as it is from life: you're not going to get nearly as much enjoyment if you're focused on the destination more than the journey. Just like exploration doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment if it doesn't take very long, buying that fancy ship with all the trimmings isn't much of an accomplishment if it was relatively easy to make the money. If you just want to fly & fight ships without the necessary grind, that's your right and your prerogative, but ED is also not your game. Note: I realize some people miss the days when the game was even MORE grindy and lament how relatively quickly people can make credits now. I personally feel they got that rebalance "just right." It doesn't take as long as it used to, but there's still a heck of a big feeling of accomplishment. Buying a 'Conda for $146MM and spending another 200MM-300MM to properly outfit it when I can make a max of 2-5MM per passenger mission* still takes a material amount of time. Even when you include those freak occurrences where I find a passenger mission* with a 20MM payout.
*referring to INTRA-bubble passenger missions. I don't leave the bubble when I'm mission grinding.
Meanwhile those of us who spent the time to research what we were buying, and were attracted to it's depth and complexity in a world already flush with gamey arcadey space shooters, and are relatively overjoyed with the current game systems...well you can see why we might take issue. NOTE: being 'overjoyed' does not imply that we don't have or are not welcoming of constructive criticism of the current game.
On a slightly different topic, I also find it kind of funny that people complain about grind in a game that attempts to immerse you in the life of a career pilot. If you're trying to replicate the fictional life of a CAREER pilot, there will be grind, because that's what careers are! Even if you somewhat enjoy your career, it is mostly a grind! If the game is replicating real life in the sense that you must make money before you can buy or do what you want to do, then grind seems inescapable to me. Many players complain about how there's nothing to do once you've bought everything. Ha! Just like real life, kid! And the same lesson is to be learned from the game as it is from life: you're not going to get nearly as much enjoyment if you're focused on the destination more than the journey. Just like exploration doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment if it doesn't take very long, buying that fancy ship with all the trimmings isn't much of an accomplishment if it was relatively easy to make the money. If you just want to fly & fight ships without the necessary grind, that's your right and your prerogative, but ED is also not your game. Note: I realize some people miss the days when the game was even MORE grindy and lament how relatively quickly people can make credits now. I personally feel they got that rebalance "just right." It doesn't take as long as it used to, but there's still a heck of a big feeling of accomplishment. Buying a 'Conda for $146MM and spending another 200MM-300MM to properly outfit it when I can make a max of 2-5MM per passenger mission* still takes a material amount of time. Even when you include those freak occurrences where I find a passenger mission* with a 20MM payout.
*referring to INTRA-bubble passenger missions. I don't leave the bubble when I'm mission grinding.
The real question seems to be, how many different ways can one frame the same inquiry to try to prevent their thread from being heaped in one giant mega?
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This whole thread is one massive false dichotomy.
People keep getting caught up in the argument over whether or not certain aspects of gameplay should model realistic or arcade mechanics, but most gamers will find themselves satisfied with either as long as those mechanics are done well. We have to step back and see the bigger picture: FD is not finishing their work. They either dump it halfway and move on or they lay down arbitrary logic that neither follows realism or arcade mechanics. It's that simple.
People keep getting caught up in the argument over whether or not certain aspects of gameplay should model realistic or arcade mechanics, but most gamers will find themselves satisfied with either as long as those mechanics are done well. We have to step back and see the bigger picture: FD is not finishing their work. They either dump it halfway and move on or they lay down arbitrary logic that neither follows realism or arcade mechanics. It's that simple.
This is the same as I think. I wish that there were more 'sim' type things to do in flight as well. I watch Star Trek, for example, and see the crew having to do all manor of tasks to keep the ship flying. I reckon it'd be cool to have similar stuff to do in the ship - maybe adjustments to fuel settings, or minor manual repairs...that kind of thing.
This is the best counter-argument to my own that I've ever read. I appreciate the nuanced take. On the other hand, it also demonstrates the problem with the internet and easy access to information creating unrealistic expectations. Those of us who spend zero time reading about upcoming additions to the game and instead just play the game have no concept of what was promised but not delivered. All we know is what was delivered, and only have to answer the question "am I satisfied with what was delivered?" instead of "am I satisfied with what they didn't deliver?". Our need for information is doing more to diminish our appreciation of the game than the game itself is. Playing without expectations is so much more satisfying.
I can argue that this is your problem and not the problem of the game. It is a sandbox game. Build your own gameplay and become a pilot. If you have problems doing that, then, this game isn't for you. It is as simple as that.