Is there something wrong with salvage/recovery missions?

[sirpuma]

One of the things I like to do to help build up rep and earn a little cash is these salvage/recovery mission. Such as X Party need you to go to Y System and recover "Rare Artwork" or "Sales Materials" from a destroyed ship. Now I'm no shrinking violet, even though my combat rank is only Novice. These missions use the Explorer ranks (I'm at Pathfinder.) I've recently attempted a couple of these which I had to bail on because I was horribly attacked, once viciously destroyed. Both of these missions were a level below mine at Trailblazer. The first I had three Eagles suddenly appear without notice and attacked me. I did manage to destroy one of them, but a second later I was destroyed. So it only took two Eagle Mark II to destroy my Asp Explorer, ... in 30-45 seconds.

The second mission was also ranked Trailblazer and when I started to pick up the desired "Art" two heavily armed Vultures jumped in and before I could close up my cargo hatch and boot out my shields were gone and I had 19% damage to my hull. After making it to Supercruise I saw an option to get the art at another location. When I get there FOUR Viper Mk IV jumped in on all sides and were immediately shooting me.

These were not "Elite" missions and were one step lower than my rank, which isn't very high. But holy hell, getting jumped by multiple ships that out gun and out run me is very screwy. The fact that two Eagle mk II can destroy my Asp Explorer in under a minute stinks of Rancor Dung.

My Ship:
Asp Explorer
Integrity: 995.0 Power Max: 23.84
Top Speed: 325 M/S Retracted: 18.53
Boost: 442 M/S Deployed: 22.49
Mass: 501.8/573.2/1184.4
Jump Range: 28.67/32.74/34.69
Shield Strength: 419.3 with +10.5% to Kinetic protection, +16% to Thermal protection and +9.6% to Explosion protection

Hard Points:
2ea 2B Seeker Missile
4ea 1G Pulse Laser (engineering on them with Stripped Down)

Utility Mount:
0I Chaff
3ea 0A Shield Booster (engineered with boosts for Explosive, Thermal and Kinetic protection)

Core Internal:
1A Military Bulkhead
5A Power Plant (engineered with Stripped Down)
5A Thrusters (engineered with Clean Drive)
5B FSD (engineered with Increased Range)
4D Life Support
4A Power Distributor (engineered with High Charge Capacity)
5D Sensor (engineered Light Weight)
5C Fuel Tank

Optional Internal:
6E Cargo Hold
5A Shield Generator (engineered with Reinforced)
3A Fuel Scoop
3D Hull Reinforcement
3E Cargo Hold
2G Planetary Vehicle
1E Advanced Docking Computer
1 Detailed Surface Scanner (engineered with Expanded Probe)
1 Planetary Approach Suite

 

[Factabulous]

You need to get faster at scooping. And remember if you run without completing the mission another Mission USS will spawn so you can continue...

 

[Faded Glory]

Yep, these missions got changed a while back, and if they are opposed, they aren't always, then the opposition is pretty fierce. Once the attacking NPC's drop in, you have a matter of seconds (10 to 20) before they will open fire on you.

A collector limpet controller might help, drop into the system, target one of the x number of items you need, fire the limpet. You should then have time to collect one item. Then, assuming attackers have jumped in, boost away as fast as you can and jump out (you might want to think about a faster ship, I used a Cobra MkIII for these missions when I did them, could boost away at over 600 m/s), and then look for the next mission USS to spawn. Drop in and repeat as many times as necessary. Once a mission does spawn enemies, they will appear in every USS for that mission.

Just make sure you are not destroyed with any of the items required for the mission, as that will fail the mission.

Edited to add a link to an old thread about this subject... If you're interested.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/ambushed-for-no-reason-bug-or-feature.440039/

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Salvage missions have been this way for a while, but their difficulty isn't a consistent thing. I expect that their difficulty relates to the system you're doing the missions in, security level etc, and probably some other variable like the mission giver.

I always use a Python with a good shield, SCB and plenty of collector limpet controllers. ideally you don't manual scoop for these missions, but if you do, make sure it's a very combat capable ship.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Equip Limpets. Set pips to 4-2-0 before you drop in. Fly towards the cargo at best speed. Immediately target the first item and fire a limpet, target second and fire again. Retract hardpoints, open cargo bay and come to a stop as close to the cargo as you can. This is the point where the bad guys usually drop in but you should have time for the two Limpets to return, close the cargo bay, boost out of there and SC. If nobody drops in, grab the remaining cargo at your leisure, otherwise SC back to the USS and repeat.

 

[Faded Glory]

Any value in the idea of killing them before scooping?

Not necessarily, as sometimes the fight will take you out of range of the salvage, and then you're back to square one.

Perhaps if you are in a tank that can simply sit still and destroy them all without being destroyed in the process. I did stay behind a few times and destroyed them (with the help of system security), but the salvage items were long gone by the time the fight was over.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

In the past, I've always found it useful to

• have at least 2-3 Collector Limpets active
• carry Shields that can tank a wing of mentioned NPCs for those sufficient seconds to get the job done without imploding
• run 4/2/0 Pips, helps tanking a few more seconds
• have a preset egress System to perform a swift escape under fire via HiWake (on Hotkey) [alternatively Low-Wake if feasible, i.e. to continue with next Mission in-System]
• ...simply run a very fast Salvage Ship that can easily boost out of trouble after the last Canister is scooped

 

[don carnage1]

Ever watch Firefly? Wanna try something REALLY fun? Follow these steps:

1) Turn off your headlights
2) Set a low speed of 5 kph-ish toward the debris field
3) Flight assist off, then cut your engines
4) Silent running
5) Release your collector limpets

... then boost boost boost and high wake the heck outta there.

 

[Rock Hunter]

On my main account I simply take a Corvette and kill the ships as they drop in then leisurely deploy collector limpets whilst my shields recover, if necessary, and the system authorities scan me and ask me where all the debris has come from - this method allows you to collect the mats too.

My second account, recently reset, doesn’t have access to any big ships so I use a fast Viper MkIII and do as Faded Glory says; drop in, scoop up and boost away before low waking and repeating. It’s a longer process but enemies involved in these can be very challenging now. The threat level of the USS will give you a good idea of the ship or ships to expect. Frankly, I’d rather take on one big Annie or Vette than an FdL and two Vultures but you don’t know until you drop in.

Safety first, once you lose that mission specific cargo you’ve wasted your time.

 

[Jmanis]

My second account, recently reset, doesn’t have access to any big ships so I use a fast Viper MkIII and do as Faded Glory says; drop in, scoop up and boost away before low waking and repeating. It’s a longer process but enemies involved in these can be very challenging now. The threat level of the USS will give you a good idea of the ship or ships to expect. Frankly, I’d rather take on one big Annie or Vette than an FdL and two Vultures but you don’t know until you drop in.

This one. Used to be all were Threat 0 regardless of if you'll be jumped or not. Now they'll show a Threat level... so if it's 0, then you're fine, anything higher and you'll get jumped.

On an aside, it's a pretty common thing to under-estimate the small ships. Three Eagles are a much bigger threat than you'd realise, particularly if their rank is around Dangerous/Deadly/Elite, and they are dedicated combat vessels. The Asp Explorer is not (even though your fitting is not bad in this case; though it could be much better). Here's what you need to remember is:

• Your Asp Explorer has 2 x Medium hardpoints, 4 x Small Hardpoints, and about 1,200 EHP across the board
• The Eagles you were fighting have a combined 9 (3 each) x Small Hardpoints, and about 900-1200 (300-400 each) EHP.

Your choice of seekers in the two medium hardpoints is an interesting one... seekers are, imo, special case weaponry which you need to acknowledge you'll lose available DPS by fitting them... best use-case for them is if you know your usual systems are going to be spending so little time on target actually hitting that the delivered burst damage from the missiles will be superior... noting they're also terrible agains shields. Personally I'd go 2 x Medium Pulse, 2 x Small MC and 2 x Seeker... but I digress slightly.

My point being look at those stats. Across all three of them, the Eagles have about the same total EHP as your Asp, but are potentially dealing over twice the damage (again; excluding those seekers because they're generally not going to be firing, and they're pants against shielded targets, so it's basically 9 small mounts vs 4 small mounts)

So, two "wings" of ships fighting each other, of roughly equal EHP, but one does more than twice the damage... from that it should be pretty clear you're going to lose unless you're a jet pilot.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Yep, these missions got changed a while back, and if they are opposed, they aren't always, then the opposition is pretty fierce. Once the attacking NPC's drop in, you have a matter of seconds (10 to 20) before they will open fire on you.

A collector limpet controller might help, drop into the system, target one of the x number of items you need, fire the limpet. You should then have time to collect one item. Then, assuming attackers have jumped in, boost away as fast as you can and jump out (you might want to think about a faster ship, I used a Cobra MkIII for these missions when I did them, could boost away at over 600 m/s), and then look for the next mission USS to spawn. Drop in and repeat as many times as necessary. Once a mission does spawn enemies, they will appear in every USS for that mission.

Just make sure you are not destroyed with any of the items required for the mission, as that will fail the mission.

Edited to add a link to an old thread about this subject... If you're interested.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/ambushed-for-no-reason-bug-or-feature.440039/

Idk bro, I think it's your ship. Try that in a krait2 or a python and I bet you barely take damage. Asp damage output is pretty soft I think.

 

[Faded Glory]

Idk bro, I think it's your ship. Try that in a krait2 or a python and I bet you barely take damage. Asp damage output is pretty soft I think.

If you are actually referring to me...

The Cobra is fine, and works as I described it. But yes, shields and hull are very weak. But I don't want, or enjoy, being forced into more powerful ships all the time, unfortunately a lot of missions seem to assume players will be in tanky OP ships all the time, which is a shame.

 

[Jmanis]

...unfortunately a lot of missions seem to assume players will be in tanky OP ships all the time, which is a shame.

Which ones do? Only ones I can think of are:

• Assassination; though depends on the subtype
• Disable Megaship Turrets; and
• Hijack, though that's very much target dependent. Common targets are T7, Asp or DBE, which aren't exactly problematic, even the escorts are usually just two sideys.

Even Pirate Massacre missions have USS which spawn mostly Novice/Competent ships which you can happily attack one at a time, and they go down if you just sneeze at them. Everything else, well,

• Courier, source and delivery: You might get wrinkles for combat, but just evade the interdiction and you're fine.
• Salvage; well, we're discussing it here. Two colletor limpets targeted at the cargo (not let out to scoop all cargo) will retrieve them in time before any enemies show.
• Surface salvage/scan/powerplants/Skimmers: Done from SRVs, or ships if needed. Almost all bases have powerplants which can be destroyed with a single missile, and if not, just fly within 100m, scan the target, leave.
• Massacre: As discussed
• Donation: Yeah... no.
• Mining: Drop into ring, fly out 20km, never see a pirate again.

Most of these I'd happily do in a Cobra, except that the extra cargo room of a Python helps for backing on Source/Delivery missions, so the Python I use is paper-thin anyway.

That's a far cry from "a lot".

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Plus python looks so nice like a viper mk5 lol

 

[Faded Glory]

• Salvage; well, we're discussing it here. Two colletor limpets targeted at the cargo (not let out to scoop all cargo) will retrieve them in time before any enemies show.

Those were the ones we were discussing yes, and maybe they've changed them, eased them off a bit, but when I was doing them there was only time to retrieve one canister per USS (and all my missions required four). As I said, they could be done in a Cobra, that's what I used, but frankly, it got boring having to run and wait for the next mission USS to spawn, and there was no point in hanging around and fighting them as the canisters disappeared.

You are right though, not all missions require a big tanky ship, so I'll take that back. I don't have any big tanky ships (well I have a corvette I never use), and the last times I played I was doing Elite pirate lord assassinations in either a Mamba or an iCourier (with assistance from security forces who drop in during the fight).

I guess I just got a bit jaded with the lack of variety in the missions that I did do. All so predictable, and as a result pushing the player (me) towards using a specific ship, and just repeating the same steps over and over again. And honestly, while escaping from combat is perfectly valid, and very easy, it's also not (IMO) great gameplay. Combat is content and challenge, and having to run away from it should be the exception rather than the rule, at least that is my opinion.

So I guess there should be ways that tactics can be used to complete missions in a variety of ways, and in general I haven't found that to be the case.

 

[NorthernDevo]

Which ones do? Only ones I can think of are:

• Assassination; though depends on the subtype
• Disable Megaship Turrets; and
• Hijack, though that's very much target dependent. Common targets are T7, Asp or DBE, which aren't exactly problematic, even the escorts are usually just two sideys.

Even Pirate Massacre missions have USS which spawn mostly Novice/Competent ships which you can happily attack one at a time, and they go down if you just sneeze at them. Everything else, well,

• Courier, source and delivery: You might get wrinkles for combat, but just evade the interdiction and you're fine.
• Salvage; well, we're discussing it here. Two colletor limpets targeted at the cargo (not let out to scoop all cargo) will retrieve them in time before any enemies show.
• Surface salvage/scan/powerplants/Skimmers: Done from SRVs, or ships if needed. Almost all bases have powerplants which can be destroyed with a single missile, and if not, just fly within 100m, scan the target, leave.
• Massacre: As discussed
• Donation: Yeah... no.
• Mining: Drop into ring, fly out 20km, never see a pirate again.

Most of these I'd happily do in a Cobra, except that the extra cargo room of a Python helps for backing on Source/Delivery missions, so the Python I use is paper-thin anyway.

That's a far cry from "a lot".

I'm a big fan of the Cobra III myself; if only for nostalgia value. Like the Python, it has an 'original Elite' panache other ships don't share - obviously just my opinion. It's an excellent ship for a lightweight all-rounder, though combat with dedicated fighters/warships should be avoided at all costs.
It does brilliantly in these missions; racing up to the dropped items, popping a pair of limpets, sweating for 5 seconds while they load the goods then getting the heck out of there FAST. If there are more than four items, set the non-mission items to 'ignore' for a bit faster response.

 

[sirpuma]

So, strange things are afoot. The mission to recover the "Art" in which I was getting my butt handed to me so rapidly by Vultures and Vipers, I abandoned, yesterday morning. I went on to do a couple other things to help build my rep and rank with the Federation. I log in this morning and strangely I find, showing up in the Galaxy map a mission icon. Odd, I didn't have any active missions. So I check my Transaction list and lo and behold there is that mission to collect "Art" from the same system with 5 hours remaining. Ok fine, I trudge of to try again, this time with some collector limpets instead of a ground vehicle.

Of course the system is Epsilon Indi and the salvage spot is 432K Ls from the primary. UGH. But I get there, drop out of supercruise, open my cargo hatch and find the art, launch a limpet and two Asp Scouts jump in. As the limpet is recovered I start boosting and they start shooting. Then I get a completed mission message and system authority actually jumped in. Cool. With a little help I eliminated one of the attackers while the other one beat feet with a high wake jump.

So thanks for the advice on limpets. By the way what do you folks mean by USS? I'm a US military vet and USS means US Ship, so I'm a bit confused.

I chose the Asp Explorer because it's a great over all ship. I do a lot of courier missions with both data and goods. Occasionally I'll hunt down a pirate lord. Sometimes I'll drop into a resource site and hunt for "wanted" ships. And sometimes just for s-n-giggles I'll do random 30 jump loops just for the cartographic data. The Asp E has lots of optional internal space to do all that variety. I have the bigger seeker missile packs because I've found in most combat situations (1v1) that I can take out the opponent's shields with my lasers quickly and being able to repeatedly hit with the missiles after the shields are down can rip the hull to shreds faster than just the lasers. I just did a courier mission to haul some materials and was jumped by 2 Pythons and an Eagle, thankfully one at a time. System security gave me a bit of help with the first Python but I knocked his shields out fast. The Eagle didn't last very long. Then the second Python came at me and it was 1v1 for a while. I had him down to 60% hull before system security jumped in and gave me a hand and I still had 75% shields. If I can go 1v1 I can hold my own, but multiple enemies, yeah, not so much.

 

[Faded Glory]

USS is an Unidentified Signal Source. It's the mechanic FD have for finding things in space, as opposed to POI's, Points Of Interest which are the same things on planets.

Missions (as I'm sure you know) have special Mission Specific Signal Sources which your ship detects and your ship's computer announces for you.

You can find out what is in a USS by either scanning the nav beacon when you enter a system, all currently spawned USS will then be identified for what they are, you can use the FSS to scan and identify any USS in a system, or you can simply target a USS, point your ship at it, and it will identify what is in it.

 

[sirpuma]

Thanks Faded Glory. I didn't recall the long name for that, though I deal with them all the time. Usually when I jump into a new system I use the FSS and identify all anomalies, so I rarely see them as Unidentified Signal Sources and instead as Encoded, Degraded or otherwise.