Engineers Is Thermal Vent Binary?

[Old Duck]

Simple question - is the amount of heat vented by a beam laser with the TVSE binary (all or nothing), or does it scale with DPS? The question applies both to weapon size / base DPS and damage dropoff at range. Thanks!

Bonus question - does TV stack? In other words, do two TV beams double my cool-down rate?

 

[Nero Tacitus]

Think of Thermal Vent (TV) as applying to the hardpoint, not the ship. TV inverts the heat generated by a hardpoint, so if a beam generates 5 units of heat per second (which is then dispersed into the ship) without TV, with the experimental it will vent 5 units of heat per second from the ship instead. So TV not only removes the heat generation of the weapon, it inverts it completely.

Because of this mechanic, the amount of heat vented by the experimental is determined by the heat the hardpoint would normally generate. If a beam would have generated 5 units, it now vents 5 units. This means large beams vent more than smalls beams. It also means the efficient mod actually lowers the venting properties of the hardpoint (as efficient lowers the heat generation). As the experimental applies to the hardpoint, the effect will stack, with more hardpoints venting more heat (2 huge beams on my 'Vette can completely negate the heat of my SCBs).

DPS, and therefore drop-off, do not factor into the equation. Whatever heat the weapon should normally generate, is now inverted.

 

[Old Duck]

Thank you! This means that I probably do not want to combine Thermal Vent with Efficient weapons unless I have to due to distributor limitations, correct? If anything, I want to engineer towards something that has a side-effect of more heat, assuming the formula is based on our laser's stats post-engineered and not pre-engineered.

 

[Nero Tacitus]

assuming the formula is based on our laser's stats post-engineered and not pre-engineered.

Correct, the stats (AFAIK, I recall someone listing some tests a while ago) are post-engineering, so mods that increase heat generation (short range for example) will increase the amount the beams vent, and vica versa.

This means that I probably do not want to combine Thermal Vent with Efficient weapons unless I have to due to distributor limitations, correct?

In theory, yes. However, Efficient is still the best all round performing mod, especially on beams due to their exorbitant distro draw. While it will lower the amount of heat vented, the bonuses to damage, mounting power and distro draw still make it a worthwhile mod. The huge beams I mentioned are efficient; I'd be able to sustain fire them for all of about 4 seconds without it. If you're using kinetic weapons in other hardpoints, and have distro left over to burn, you could make an argument for short/long ranged, or even focused, depending on your needs. But efficient is still my go-to mod, even on vented beams. Then again, I design most of my ships to run on a very defensive 4-0-2 build, so take my fanboyism of efficient with a grain of salt. 4 PIPs to weapons opens up a lot more possibilities.

 

[PocketPsycho]

Thank you! This means that I probably do not want to combine Thermal Vent with Efficient weapons unless I have to due to distributor limitations, correct? If anything, I want to engineer towards something that has a side-effect of more heat, assuming the formula is based on our laser's stats post-engineered and not pre-engineered.

Combining Efficient and TV works fine, the potential reduction in the TV effect is offset by the extra staying power of the beams and/or the ability to shift pips away from WEP into ENG or SYS as needed.

Personally I use 2 C2 Beams and 1 C3 on my Vette both running Efficient and TV and with just the three of them firing I can pop a C7 SCB without overheating (unless the NPC pops chaff at the right time), moreover if I'm using full beams on the Vette I can fire my C4 Efficient Oversized Beams along with the 3 TV beams and the ship will drop to 0% heat.

 

[Redan]

Think of Thermal Vent (TV) as applying to the hardpoint, not the ship. TV inverts the heat generated by a hardpoint, so if a beam generates 5 units of heat per second (which is then dispersed into the ship) without TV, with the experimental it will vent 5 units of heat per second from the ship instead. So TV not only removes the heat generation of the weapon, it inverts it completely.

Because of this mechanic, the amount of heat vented by the experimental is determined by the heat the hardpoint would normally generate. If a beam would have generated 5 units, it now vents 5 units. This means large beams vent more than smalls beams. It also means the efficient mod actually lowers the venting properties of the hardpoint (as efficient lowers the heat generation). As the experimental applies to the hardpoint, the effect will stack, with more hardpoints venting more heat (2 huge beams on my 'Vette can completely negate the heat of my SCBs).

DPS, and therefore drop-off, do not factor into the equation. Whatever heat the weapon should normally generate, is now inverted.

This is very insightful. A much appreciated change from the pre-3.0 era, where it used to only counter the heat generated by the hard point only. I've yet to verify the accuracy of this data, but it sounds logical to me.

When I first read the thread title before reading the OP's post, I thought the question was regarding the effect being binary, as in active vs inactive, relative to the target being hit or not being hit. The description of the experimental clearly states that the beam must be striking the target for it to dissipate the heat it generates, otherwise (when missing the target) the amount of heat is increased from normal rates.

This is still the case, yes? You can't just fire it into space at no target and have it cool you down, correct?

 

[WhoCares]

...
When I first read the thread title before reading the OP's post, I thought the question was regarding the effect being binary, as in active vs inactive, relative to the target being hit or not being hit. The description of the experimental clearly states that the beam must be striking the target for it to dissipate the heat it generates, otherwise (when missing the target) the amount of heat is increased from normal rates.

This is still the case, yes? You can't just fire it into space at no target and have it cool you down, correct?

Just yesterday I got me a Phyton and gave it two 3C gimballed beam lasers, which I modded oversized and with thermal vents. After starting from a base (and gaining some distance) I did some test firing and thus can confirm that beam lasers with thermal vents nicely heat up your ship when they hit no target. Can't comment yet on the effect when hitting targets - tests on pirates and/or federals to be executed (<= pun intended) tonight.

 

[Old Duck]

For testing cooldown effect, go to a local nav beacon and target it with your thermal vented lasers. You can shoot at it all day - it doesn't move and it doesn't shoot back (and surprisingly, it doesn't report your act of attempted vandalism as a crime). All nav beacons appear to be made of Vibranium, LOL.

 

[Speedcuffs]

For testing cooldown effect, go to a local nav beacon and target it with your thermal vented lasers. You can shoot at it all day - it doesn't move and it doesn't shoot back (and surprisingly, it doesn't report your act of attempted vandalism as a crime). All nav beacons appear to be made of Vibranium, LOL.

Brilliant!

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

For testing cooldown effect, go to a local nav beacon and target it with your thermal vented lasers. You can shoot at it all day - it doesn't move and it doesn't shoot back (and surprisingly, it doesn't report your act of attempted vandalism as a crime). All nav beacons appear to be made of Vibranium, LOL.

I know thermal vent is awesome from having it in combat but wow this is great advice for testing many things.
+1 rep to you sir!

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Thank you! This means that I probably do not want to combine Thermal Vent with Efficient weapons unless I have to due to distributor limitations, correct? If anything, I want to engineer towards something that has a side-effect of more heat, assuming the formula is based on our laser's stats post-engineered and not pre-engineered.

That depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I have two C4 G5 Efficient/Thermal Vent Beams on my Corvette, two C3s on my Anaconda (3rd C3 is a Pulse with shield piercing), and three C3s on my Krait.

On all three ships, but especially the Corvette and Krait, if I maintain time on target my ships heat drops to zero and the windows ice up. The benefit of this is reduced signature, so much so, that I often take less fire than even when I use chaff. It's like silent running with your shields up. This is exceptionally good on the Krait, as with it's small size, it's able to dodge any fire still directed at it (e.g. fixed plasmas). Works great on the Corvette, too. Means I get less attention in a CZ furball.

The downside is you have to keep firing and hitting the target. So small ships will often pop before you hit zero. But when fighting big ships, you can hit zero and stay there for a bit. Also, my Corvette rarely has to fire a heatsink to deal with the heat from a size 6 or 7 (I forget) SCB if I'm constantly hitting a big ship target. It's fun.

NOTE: Since the 3.1.1 patch last week, Thermal vent doesn't seem to be as effective at getting the heat to zero for me. This may have been a bug or may have been due to my targets (I was flying the Krait). I won't know until I hit a bigboy in my Vette again for sure...

 

[GargoyleBG]

I have put two beams with thermal vent to my Clipper, with 3 pips to shield and 3 to weapons it can fire indefinitely, and my window starts icying only when target is close, so that means that vent is tied to damage done as lasers do more damage from close distance, when firing far targets thermal vent is enough to cool the ship as much as when not firing at all!

 

[V'larr]

I have put two beams with thermal vent to my Clipper, with 3 pips to shield and 3 to weapons it can fire indefinitely, and my window starts icying only when target is close, so that means that vent is tied to damage done as lasers do more damage from close distance, when firing far targets thermal vent is enough to cool the ship as much as when not firing at all!

Is that due to damage, though? Or is it possibly due to not missing as much? What about when combined with long range?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

4 PIPs to weapons opens up a lot more possibilities.

This.

I'm debating a silent runner with a beam on it to mitigate the need for carrying heatsinks, if I do say so myself, without sounding too big headed, I can keep weapons on target fairly well with the hotas, so is using a short range beam on a fast ship going to ramp the heat down in a much shorter timeframe due to the increased heat of the modification? (The inverting concept says it should correct?)

Though it does'nt gain a distributor draw buff, a single short range should have the same effect as two efficient ones, or at least thereabouts, and coupling it with a ship with a typically lower heat capacity should yeild even more effective results?

EDIT: Also, what happens if you put thermal vent on the Retributor?

 

[V'larr]

This.

I'm debating a silent runner with a beam on it to mitigate the need for carrying heatsinks, if I do say so myself, without sounding too big headed, I can keep weapons on target fairly well with the hotas, so is using a short range beam on a fast ship going to ramp the heat down in a much shorter timeframe due to the increased heat of the modification? (The inverting concept says it should correct?)

Though it does'nt gain a distributor draw buff, a single short range should have the same effect as two efficient ones, or at least thereabouts, and coupling it with a ship with a typically lower heat capacity should yeild even more effective results?

EDIT: Also, what happens if you put thermal vent on the Retributor?

Don't you want to avoid being in short range if you're silent-running? Plus, doesn't Emissive rather hard-counter that idea?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Don't you want to avoid being in short range if you're silent-running? Plus, doesn't Emissive rather hard-counter that idea?

Well if it has the potential to run you down to zero it's not hugely relevant about the range, no missile lock, and a very challenging time to lock gimbals if you're flying right.

Also not that many folks run emmisive as silent builds are'nt a particularly common thing these days in face of the supa-shields.

 

[Speedcuffs]

I have put two beams with thermal vent to my Clipper, with 3 pips to shield and 3 to weapons it can fire indefinitely, and my window starts icying only when target is close, so that means that vent is tied to damage done as lasers do more damage from close distance, when firing far targets thermal vent is enough to cool the ship as much as when not firing at all!

This is how it seems to work on my Corvette.
Gotta be under 1000m to see any canopy icing.