Is Update 10 bad news for consoles?

[denispage]

Frontier said that Update 10 would be focused in optimizations.
It was in some aspects, but after some tests here, still many FPS issues.
Even in a high end PC (RTX 3090/64gb/ssd/i9900ks) the FPS is below 60 (and even 30) in many settlements.

Don't get me wrong, Odyssey improved a LOT since may 2020. Not only in features, but in optimization too.
Unfortunately, still far from enough to be able to release into the last gen consoles.

[Last Gen Consoles}
Xbox One has 1.4 TFLOPS, Playstation4 has 1.84TFLOPS. It's gonna be impossible to bring this engine to these consoles. They could if they lower the graphics to a 'PS 2 era' which I still don't believe is possible since the engine could not support that.

Xbox One X has 6 TFLOPS and PS4 PRO has 4.2 TFLOPS. Odyssey COULD run on 30 fps with MANY optimizations and scaling up resolutions. But If I'm not wrong, developers can not release games only for those two 'better' last gen consoles. You have to support the slow ones.

[New Gen Consoles]
Frontier can easily bring the game for both Xbox One Series X (12 Tflops) and PS5 (10.3 tfops).


Just to put in perspective, TFLOPS in GPU:

• Nvidia 3060: 12.74 teraflops.
• Nvidia 3070: 20.31 teraflops.
• Nvidia 3080: 29.77 teraflops.
• Nvidia 3090: 35.58 teraflops.
• Nvidia 3080 Ti Founders Edition: 34.10 teraflops.

Older Nvidia cards:

• Nvidia 1660 Ti: 5.437 teraflops.
• Nvidia 1080 Ti: 11.34 teraflops.
• Nvidia 2080 Ti: 13.45 teraflops.

And here’s what camp red’s got:

• AMD RX 6700 XT: 13.21 teraflops.
• AMD RX 6800: 16.17 teraflops.
• AMD RX 6800 XT: 20.74 teraflops.
• AMD RX 6900 XT: 23.04 teraflops.

Older AMD cards:

• AMD RX 580: 6.175 teraflops.
• AMD RX 570: 5.095 teraflops.

* There are some discussion about the count of TFLOPS in 30xx series because they're counting shaders Tflops, but in raw power the 3080ti is ~35% more than the 2080ti.

Consoles has optimizations, special in memory bandwidth and direct CPU/GPU access. That could improve a lot the performance, but still not enough for the 'originals' last gen consoles.

I know the vast majority of PC players make fun about it, and just don't care; But we have a big part of our community playing on consoles.
I do care about them, not only because I care about Elite (the best game in my opinion even with all the flaws), but I hope some day we're gonna get the cross-play.

Some thoughts...
Render in 640p and upscaling to 1080p is a possibility for the last gen consoles?
Drop the last gen consoles, and release to the new gen with a feature to migrate ALL you CMDR status (ships, modules, engineer, etc) could be a good exist strategy?
Stay in silence (even after 21st May 22) until the new gen is the majority of players in consoles?


What do you think CMDRs?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't care one bit about it. If anything they should fix the PC stuff 1st then worry about anything else.

 

[denispage]

I don't care one bit about it. If anything they should fix the PC stuff 1st then worry about anything else.

I do understand, but you're missing the point.
Even with all fixed in PC, there is no viable way to run this engine on old gen consoles.

And I'll give a 'red pill'. Frontier will never fix everything in PC.

o7!

 

[sandkid]

Is Elite Dangerous: Odyssey bad news for consoles?

There, fixed the title for you.

Yes. Just need the meme of the astronaut holding the pistol.
Always has been.

 

[denispage]

Is Elite Dangerous: Odyssey bad news for consoles?

There, fixed the title for you.

Yes. Just need the meme of the astronaut holding the pistol.
Always has been.

You got a point.

 

[sandkid]

On a less salty note, your suggestions at end aren't bad but are unlikely. FDev will maintain radio silence until:

A) They announce ceasing development for lastgen with/without announcement for current gen (most likely)
B) They announce development for lastgen is progressing and give a tacit date (increasingly unlikely, due to reasons you and many others have already pointed out.)

EDO, from my perspective, fundamentally cannot be optimized for lastgen. Which stinks - I'm a PS4 player and have no PC, so I do have a dog in this hunt - and is a real shame. Yet EDO was clearly built in such a way that either consoles were never really considered or FDev really is in over their head outside of the spaceship side of the game. It's a toss up between those two, but I'm increasingly leaning towards the latter.

And I don't give FDev the benefit of the doubt often. I really do think they bit off way more than they could chew and our community got shafted for it. Which is why there is radio silence on the topic: the only truthful answer (if I'm right, of course, this is all conjecture) is that FDev messed up and it's impossible to go back. The only way forward, then, is to rebuild Elite for current gen consoles.

A herculean task, given building EDO for its parent platform - the PC - is into Update 10 of still trying to make it look less like an Alpha (or Beta, if you're optimistic) and more like an actual expansion worthy of its pricetag. I don't see FDev doing this unless the business case is there.

I suspect it isn't. Or they would have been more careful in the first place.
EDO doesn't feature VR and likely never will, FDev have confirmed they aren't working on current gen development.

That leaves option A. They're just biding time on when to say it. I don't think its too milk ARX necessarily or somesuch, but probably convert as many console players to PC passively as possible. Because once they drop the bomb, it's over. The console community is already bare bones, only the die-hards and fire-sale rookies will be left.

 

[Bospon]

I have ED on my Xbox Series S and EDO on PC...playing on Xbox, when wife is on PC...
One of my biggest wishes is crossplay for all platforms, that would add a lot to ED/EDO in my opinion.
Gaming works best, when there are no borders for the players.

 

[Ozric]

What do you think CMDRs?

You were doing such a reasonable job of not pointlessly flaming, until near the end.

 

[denispage]

I don't see FDev doing this unless the business case is there.

That's a VERY good point!. They must to do something and at least announce before the end of their FY (may 31st).

Because once they drop the bomb, it's over.

I'm expecting this with an announce of a new expansion or any good news.
It won't be smart stay in absolute silence about consoles and new stuff by the end of their FY.

Let's be clear, who would invest in a company that is dropping a large installed base without show new stuff the the next FY?
The execution part (fixing the issues and deliver what they promise in PC) they're a doing in good (not perfect) way. But they must show a brighter future to attract not only gamers, but investidor.

 

[EdzUp]

There needs to be serious optimization of everything after all what we have is basically Horizons with legs and some extras. Surely it should be that hard to add space legs to the console versions.

I never understood why it needed a complete rewrite as tbh the game is still Elite

 

[sandkid]

You were doing such a reasonable job of not pointlessly flaming, until near the end.

I wouldn't call it flaming, certainly not by the standards he references: PC Master Race does flame us a lot.

It isn't wrong for a community - especially one that was once as vibrant as ours - to consistently demand to not be forgotten and at least given a real answer, rather than months of non-answers.

There is an answer at FDev. Be it fear, business calculus, or incompetency that holds it back...who knows.
But there is an answer, and it would rebuild goodwill and relieve tremendous pressure to just say it.

The interiors crowd has gotten much quieter since it was flat out stated, "Not in development, not currently planned." They won't go away, obviously - and shouldn't - but just saying the answer has helped a lot to cool heads and get the forums (and social media) refocused on more current and relevant items. I'm a huge fan of interiors, but I know FDev's answer now...it stinks, but there it is. Moving on.

Our (console) community deserves a real answer. It's not flaming, but PC players saying it is...is flaming.

 

[Far Beyond Driven]

Hot take - Odyssey isnt worth playing.

Imagine it came out for console though and you lost 4k support for same fps in 1080p only and then half of that on foot. That's going to look good on 50+ inch tvs and make everyone happy

Face it, at least for last gen consoles, its jover. Horizons is pinnacle anyways.

 

[denispage]

You were doing such a reasonable job of not pointlessly flaming, until near the end.

Really? Flaming discussing possibilities, and seeing what the community would like?
Look, I love Elite and Frontier. Is the BEST game and dev in my opinion, and I really think discuss in a good and polite way is the best path to difficult decisions.

If I were a decision maker in Frontier, I would see discussions like THIS one, to help identify best ways to do hard decisions.
This is not 'flaming' if the people who wants to discuss in a polite and constructive way.

I appreciate your feedback, and disagree with your point of view.

Cheers, and o7.

 

[YORKSH1RE NEO]

I wouldn't call it flaming, certainly not by the standards he references: PC Master Race does flame us a lot.

It isn't wrong for a community - especially one that was once as vibrant as ours - to consistently demand to not be forgotten and at least given a real answer, rather than months of non-answers.

There is an answer at FDev. Be it fear, business calculus, or incompetency that holds it back...who knows.
But there is an answer, and it would rebuild goodwill and relieve tremendous pressure to just say it.

The interiors crowd has gotten much quieter since it was flat out stated, "Not in development, not currently planned." They won't go away, obviously - and shouldn't - but just saying the answer has helped a lot to cool heads and get the forums (and social media) refocused on more current and relevant items. I'm a huge fan of interiors, but I know FDev's answer now...it stinks, but there it is. Moving on.

Our (console) community deserves a real answer. It's not flaming, but PC players saying it is...is flaming.

Surely you’ve had the answer countless times?? They’re concentrating on getting it stable on PC first - they don’t know how long this will take therefore can’t enlighten the console users any further. Last thing they wanna do is commit to a time frame then have to go back on their word.

 

[Ozric]

I wouldn't call it flaming, certainly not by the standards he references: PC Master Race does flame us a lot.

It isn't wrong for a community - especially one that was once as vibrant as ours - to consistently demand to not be forgotten and at least given a real answer, rather than months of non-answers.

There is an answer at FDev. Be it fear, business calculus, or incompetency that holds it back...who knows.
But there is an answer, and it would rebuild goodwill and relieve tremendous pressure to just say it.

The interiors crowd has gotten much quieter since it was flat out stated, "Not in development, not currently planned." They won't go away, obviously - and shouldn't - but just saying the answer has helped a lot to cool heads and get the forums (and social media) refocused on more current and relevant items. I'm a huge fan of interiors, but I know FDev's answer now...it stinks, but there it is. Moving on.

Our (console) community deserves a real answer. It's not flaming, but PC players saying it is...is flaming.

Don't really understand.

"I know the vast majority of PC players make fun about it, and just don't care;"

is flaming. In the same way that

"I know the vast majority of Console players make fun about it, and just don't care;"

It's an unnecessary addition to the original post that only serves to put some people on a retaliatory stance from the beginning.

Really? Flaming discussing possibilities, and seeing what the community would like?

No, as mentioned above.

Anyhow, the answer the question in the title is no of course it doesn't. One update won't determine whether Odyssey will get ported to consoles or not.

 

[denispage]

I wouldn't call it flaming, certainly not by the standards he references: PC Master Race does flame us a lot.

It isn't wrong for a community - especially one that was once as vibrant as ours - to consistently demand to not be forgotten and at least given a real answer, rather than months of non-answers.

There is an answer at FDev. Be it fear, business calculus, or incompetency that holds it back...who knows.
But there is an answer, and it would rebuild goodwill and relieve tremendous pressure to just say it.

The interiors crowd has gotten much quieter since it was flat out stated, "Not in development, not currently planned." They won't go away, obviously - and shouldn't - but just saying the answer has helped a lot to cool heads and get the forums (and social media) refocused on more current and relevant items. I'm a huge fan of interiors, but I know FDev's answer now...it stinks, but there it is. Moving on.

Our (console) community deserves a real answer. It's not flaming, but PC players saying it is...is flaming.

We have to discuss important topics like this, without flaming, memes and 'jokes' to make clear and shows frontier what could be the BEST way to follow.
OF COURSE they want the best for the community, but if you want a game to improve, there is a price to pay.
Let's see what the community thinks without flaming, memes, jokes and ignorance (which is almost the default here in forum).

One more time, a good discussion about this topic could help a LOT Frontier, instead be asking EVERY POST about a date of information for consoles.

 

[sandkid]

Surely you’ve had the answer countless times?? They’re concentrating on getting it stable on PC first - they don’t know how long this will take therefore can’t enlighten the console users any further. Last thing they wanna do is commit to a time frame then have to go back on their word.

Committing to a timeframe - and missing it - still indicates actual progress. It happens all the time in development and rarely impacts the hype and excitement for the product.

What matters is knowing that it is coming.

Find me a developer to speak on this thread saying, "Elite Dangerous Odyssey will come to lastgen consoles."
No timeframe. Just a commitment that it will happen.

The lack of that statement, in and of itself, is the problem.

 

[sandkid]

Don't really understand.

"I know the vast majority of PC players make fun about it, and just don't care;"

is flaming. In the same way that

"I know the vast majority of Console players make fun about it, and just don't care;"

It's an unnecessary addition to the original post that only serves to put some people on a retaliatory stance from the beginning.


No, as mentioned above.

Anyhow, the answer the question in the title is no of course it doesn't. One update won't determine whether Odyssey will get ported to consoles or not.

You're not wrong, but it's also a tad...over-policing? I dunno, folks talk certain ways and via sarcasm or genuine perspective it comes out that way.

It doesn't add anything constructive, sure, but it does add the human element behind letters on a screen. OP isn't some robot, but a console player genuinely frustrated and passionate about this game. That frustration and passion isn't needed to make his/her point.

But it does remind us they aren't just typing to type. Most of us aren't.
They care.
You should, too. (I am not saying you don't, just a generalized statement for all.)

 

[denispage]

One update won't determine whether Odyssey will get ported to consoles or not.

I do agree ONE update won't, but 10 helps a little. There are aspects that I've explained will. And I know exactly what I'm saying about performance, hardware and engines. We could enter in the specifics, but the decision is goanna be a business one.
The technical is clear for who works in the area, and there are many competent devs in Frontier.

 

[YORKSH1RE NEO]

Committing to a timeframe - and missing it - still indicates actual progress. It happens all the time in development and rarely impacts the hype and excitement for the product.

What matters is knowing that it is coming.

Find me a developer to speak on this thread saying, "Elite Dangerous Odyssey will come to lastgen consoles."
No timeframe. Just a commitment that it will happen.

The lack of that statement, in and of itself, is the problem.

How can they commit to something that is clearly an unknown quantity? Plenty of people are speculating that it’s already over as far as last gen consoles are concerned. My take regards that particular issue is that they hope it will be doable but aren’t willing to commit one way or the other, as to say a definitive no will cause some damage in terms of financial impact. On the other hand to give a definitive yes and then have to back track will also cause negative impact. Short answer…..rock and a hard place