Isn't it time for Deadly?

Phoenix_Dfire

Phoenix_Dfire
To be honest, Salt is never fun to play. The prime example of this issue is guild wars 1 to guild wars 2. That occurred because guild wars engine couldn't handle what they wanted to do, so they re-wrote it. From what I've seen of the Cobra Engine, it doesn't have those kind of limitations.

One of the things that people request is some kind of Wing Commander/ squadron 42 campaign, set in Elite Dangerous Galaxy, but doesn't effect the BGS. That's probably the only kind of 'sequel' I'd be interested in.
 

dm06

dm06
kiario said:
More optimized from scratch.
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That triggers me. Let's discuss a little. I'll start with several statements.
We have software in a development which at the same time is a product for users.
Users like high performance things and observe things that they can't imagine or think that it is just impossible.
Software developers work with the code base, which they need to understand, support and extend. If some of that will fail - the quality of the product expected to drop I'm not talking about performance yet, the quality here is just bugs like "seriously!?.. how the hell you have not seen it before release???".
So developers need to support the code base toward its maintainability. But nobody needs perfect code. Everybody want released product. So in best case it is kind of trade off. (In some cases code quality is very low because "we need the product right now!", but that's barely compatible with long living products).

So.. "optimization from scratch" is one of worst things possible in software development. Though I understand you as user. Why it is bad? because optimized application:
  • is not easily extendable
  • is not maintainable
  • is not cross platform
The only thing which optimization do perfect is an application performance. So generally optimization of the app is recommended as last step of the development.
 
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lysan

lysan
Ian Skippy said:
Oh lord, there we go again. There is no 10 year plan. There never was a 10 year plan. There never will be a 10 year plan.

The plan was, is, and always will be to keep developing ED as long as they expect to earn money with it. Same as EvE, WoW and other variations on an MMO. If Next Era is a smashing hit, they'll start work on the next DLC. If it sinks like a lead balloon it'll end ED.
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The 10 Year plan was to implement all the features listed at the beginning, like legs, atmo planets etc. there are several posts and news letters from FDEV regarding that. However they did change a lot along the way, so maybe that has changed too.
 

kiario

kiario
With optimized from scratch i meant more like, when a game hits a certain age, and the code gets more and more chaoitic(or maybe it doesn't?) its diffcult to add more candy to it.
Isn't it sometimes better to start from scratch with new organized code?

I have city of heroes as example. It read it was a nightmare to add and change things to the game because the code was like spaghetti in the end.
 

Phoenix_Dfire

Phoenix_Dfire
kiario said:
With optimized from scratch i meant more like, when a game hits a certain age, and the code gets more and more chaoitic(or maybe it doesn't?) its diffcult to add more candy to it.
Isn't it sometimes better to start from scratch with new organized code?

I have city of heroes as example. It read it was a nightmare to add and change things to the game because the code was like spaghetti in the end.
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That depends on the company. As we don't know what Fdevs coding standards are. They could not need to do that due to modular design and high quality code. 😀
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
kiario said:
With optimized from scratch i meant more like, when a game hits a certain age, and the code gets more and more chaoitic(or maybe it doesn't?) its diffcult to add more candy to it.
Isn't it sometimes better to start from scratch with new organized code?
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It's often very tempting to do that, yes. There are very few cases of someone successfully doing so on a major project and getting ahead of where they would previously have been. See "second system effect" (the entire "Mythical Man-Month" collection of essays is pretty much an essential read if you're interested in software engineering, design, project management, etc. - 40 years later the hardware and software has changed but the human factors have not).

I've done it a few times at work on smaller things, but only when it was absolutely necessary because the old system was literally unsupportable (wouldn't compile on modern hardware/operating system levels of unsupportable) - and it took longer each time to write the new one than it took to write the original and all its spaghetti addons in the first place, time which will not be recovered by it being quicker to add new features in future any time in the next few decades... (but, it was unavoidable this time)

So long as the code is written in a reasonably modular way, even this sort of thing on a large project doesn't require a complete ground-up rewrite, because modules can be replaced one at a time. With experienced programmers and designers [1], and a good set of standards, you can avoid getting to the stage of having complex spaghetti code, and even if you do get there the correct approach is generally to reorganise it a bit at a time so it's easier to update, then update it, rather than also throwing away the bits which work.

[1] In the code architecture sense, rather than the "game design" sense of the bits we actually get to see directly.
 

The Nephilim

The Nephilim
kiario said:
An updated engine, damage displayed on sections of ship and to support organic looking things. More optimized from scratch.
I dont think the current engine can handle more detailed objects without crawling. Looking at objects in space stations look like 90 era :)

Updated / reworked network engine. Seamless transitions. Instancec masked so that they aren't so noticable.
Total revamped gameplay story. A genuine storyline from start to defeat of the thargoid invasion. With many key characters and lots of lore / story elements.
NEw engine to support atmos planets and legs.

I joined 5 days earlier than you so I am right :);)

ETC....
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But everything you've suggested there could be implemented in E : D . Just as they did with the graphics update last year.
I'm not convinced a new engine equates to a new standalone game.
 
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dm06

dm06
kiario said:
With optimized from scratch i meant more like, when a game hits a certain age, and the code gets more and more chaoitic(or maybe it doesn't?) its diffcult to add more candy to it.
Isn't it sometimes better to start from scratch with new organized code?

I have city of heroes as example. It read it was a nightmare to add and change things to the game because the code was like spaghetti in the end.
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That's not optimization. Probably you want to say "application infrastructure design".
It is impossible to foresee everything and make flexible application which is ready for any changes.
Experience says that unforeseen changes/new requirements are enemies for software development. Such cases require skilled developers to make proper decisions.
Ideal case is when all requirements and features are defined before single line of code is written - that will allow to design and write the code which will consider all use cases (even if not all features implemented in early versions) and will not require much changes in the future.
 

[VR] Goooost

[VR] Goooost
kiario said:
I started playing in 2013. Almost 7 year old game.
Is it really worth investing more in Dangerous instead of developing Deadly?
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That might work for matchmaking, timed session games like racers, shooters, and sports. MMORPG games alway have a long dev and support lifespan because the scope is too big. There's a lot of room to just keep adding.
Most of those other games are just a reskin of the last one and you might not even like it as much. Like honestly Battlefield 5 is half the game Battlefield 3 was.
 

Rick6549

Rick6549
Penniless: Harmless. Take control of your wooden rowboat in a small creek. Sell onionhead and make your fortune, then use that fortune to buy a slightly bigger wooden rowboat.
 

Kenneth McGrew

Kenneth McGrew
Rick6549 said:
Penniless: Harmless. Take control of your wooden rowboat in a small creek. Sell onionhead and make your fortune, then use that fortune to buy a slightly bigger wooden rowboat.
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ooo sounds fun, to spice it up small wooden rowboats cant fit oars because they only come in class 2 or larger, and the nice looking rowboat sets on fire automatically
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
lysan said:
The 10 Year plan was to implement all the features listed at the beginning, like legs, atmo planets etc. there are several posts and news letters from FDEV regarding that. However they did change a lot along the way, so maybe that has changed too.
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Can you link these several posts and news letters? Because all anyone ever was able to come up with is a single quote by DB, saying he would love to support ED for a very long time, even ten years if possible. That is literally the only mentioning of a 'ten year plan' anyone has been able to show so far. Atmo, space legs and stuff was used as an example of things they hoped to do one day, but not for free. No mentioning of any time plan on any scale ever existed for that either.
 

StuartGT

StuartGT
Ian Skippy said:
Can you link these several posts and news letters? Because all anyone ever was able to come up with is a single quote by DB, saying he would love to support ED for a very long time, even ten years if possible. That is literally the only mentioning of a 'ten year plan' anyone has been able to show so far. Atmo, space legs and stuff was used as an example of things they hoped to do one day, but not for free. No mentioning of any time plan on any scale ever existed for that either.
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LaveCon 2015:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/lavecon-news.165775/post-2529743
There is a 10 year plan.
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July 2017:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6orb20 Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6orb20/david_braben_hopes_elite_dangerous_keeps_going/
https://wccftech.com/braben-elite-dangerous-going-10-years/
 
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