It would appear FD doesn't want Pirates.

[Phyl]

I do pretty well out of piracy. You just need to be sensible about how you approach it - pick the right systems, the right targets and the right black markets and there is good money to be made. As a pirate you should know the trade routes - then you can make a pretty good guess on what people will be carrying.

If you approach piracy in a pot-luck fashion you'll end up making as much money as a trader who buys and sells random goods in random stations with no strategy!

 

[Kayweg]

The main problem is that the black market isn't a black market it's fencing. If it was a proper black market you would have proper supply and demand for illegal and stolen goods, this would also make smuggling a usable profession and right now smuggling is even worse than piracy.

This, to me, sounds like an excellent suggestion.

 

[Komemiute]

Hi

I spent today Pirating in Yemba.

I have a silly bounty of my head now and an even stupider fine to never pay.

However... Pirating just doesn't pay, now im not going to stop because its a damn sight more fun that Desert Bus but I only just broke even today and I had a very successful day.

Taking a side damage from fights ( I kill a lot of players today and stole probably about 800k in winnings ).
The integrity repairs from the over heating bit and the damage from interdictions.
Unless you luck out and convince a Type 6 to Abandon 20 gold, palladium etc each time.
You end up with stolen goods worth half what they should be.

The price of shield and chaff, hits too.

The good goody player vigilante force cost us too.. This is fine.. I had 3 on me at once today.. (Didn't loose a ship)

I think after one "successful" sortie, I came back with 85% hull. And a hold of booty.
I had to pay back about 8k in repairs, 15k in integrity. And about 9k in ammo,cells and chaff.
And that was with all the fights I would say I easily won.

So yeah.. In normal Elite Dangerous where you can expect a scuffle, its very hard to make a decent profit from pirating/bounty hunting.

Now I am sure you all love to hear the woes of a pirate but lets be honest. If there is no money in it, apart from the fun.
There is no reason to pirate ( or bounty hunt ) and everyone with will either quit or just become boring haulers ( yes i know some people enjoy that but meh.. its a bit dull )

I am not sure really how to fix this, without all the haulers crying that pirates/bounty hunters are now boosted etc. but think long term. If the pirates and hunters go.. What a BORING and undangerous game this will be... ON NO ITS ANOTHER NPC EAGLE ... zzzzz

Majinvash

So- you can't bully and be a winner so the game sucks. Ok.
Fair.
Bye.

 

[Kotovsky]

So- you can't bully and be a winner so the game sucks. Ok.
Fair.
Bye.

Thank you for sharing you lack of interest in player interaction.

 

[Boff'in]

Well this is all well and good.

PVP Pirating has always been, seen as griefing (even though it's supposed to be part of the game),
and I think the Yembo situation has drawn a lot of constructive PVP together and not this dumb-fire missile spamming that I hear is happening around the space stations.
nore people complaining that if a "pirate" was spotted, the trader just alt-f4 (combat logged) out of the situation.

And that is why Yembo, to me has been a delight.

It's the first Players being actively Pirated by Players.
The pirates *know* it's a target rich area. This is as lucrative as it can be (well, it would be better if it was an anarchy system). Or you demand all player traders to turn off "report crimes against me" out of chivalray.
So all these complaints, for the "IDEAL" situation for a pirate, showing the flaws of the games dynamics, is perfect - keep up the reporting guys!!

It's sad it's not just a little bit more balanced in the piraters favour. Random incounters can be just that.

Me like other traders are trying their luck, because,
I barely see another player.

My combat skills sucks, Yembo makes the game *way* more fun.

Suddenly, Pirating, isn't PvP greifing, but a-part of the game, just like the tag line for the game claims it should be.




Where as now the pirates, get tested by *real* players, as do the traders.

With a smile, I can say - game on

It's a shame wings didn't come out first, to help co-ordinate combat/teams.



You didn't catch me yet (on my two runs I did last night...took me ages just to get to yembo), and from a Trader, I can only say I'll have my "report crimes against me" turned off, -> out of Player vs Player Respect.

but after that, I promise as hard as my skills can provide you a frustrating hunt, and little reward.

(i'm in a stock cobra MkIII and go by the name of Cmd Woakes)

 

[Komemiute]

Thank you for sharing you lack of interest in player interaction.

Pushing people around with violence and extort their own private goods are a kind of player interaction that hardly deserve to be rewarded.
Player interaction is made of a consensual dialog, not a monodirectional threat.

O.P. is sad that he can't be rich by bullying- cry me a river.

 

[tagos]

Hi

I spent today Pirating in Yemba.

I have a silly bounty of my head now and an even stupider fine to never pay.

However... Pirating just doesn't pay, now im not going to stop because its a damn sight more fun that Desert Bus but I only just broke even today and I had a very successful day.

Taking a side damage from fights ( I kill a lot of players today and stole probably about 800k in winnings ).
The integrity repairs from the over heating bit and the damage from interdictions.
Unless you luck out and convince a Type 6 to Abandon 20 gold, palladium etc each time.
You end up with stolen goods worth half what they should be.

The price of shield and chaff, hits too.

The good goody player vigilante force cost us too.. This is fine.. I had 3 on me at once today.. (Didn't loose a ship)

I think after one "successful" sortie, I came back with 85% hull. And a hold of booty.
I had to pay back about 8k in repairs, 15k in integrity. And about 9k in ammo,cells and chaff.
And that was with all the fights I would say I easily won.

So yeah.. In normal Elite Dangerous where you can expect a scuffle, its very hard to make a decent profit from pirating/bounty hunting.

Now I am sure you all love to hear the woes of a pirate but lets be honest. If there is no money in it, apart from the fun.
There is no reason to pirate ( or bounty hunt ) and everyone with will either quit or just become boring haulers ( yes i know some people enjoy that but meh.. its a bit dull )

I am not sure really how to fix this, without all the haulers crying that pirates/bounty hunters are now boosted etc. but think long term. If the pirates and hunters go.. What a BORING and undangerous game this will be... ON NO ITS ANOTHER NPC EAGLE ... zzzzz

Majinvash

Welcome to the life of the outlaw. Embrace it or leave it.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Last time I checked Piracy wasn't a profession. It's a criminal act. You could have a career as a Pirate but not a profession.

If you want to be a successful pirate (as in, notorious and with "mo money") then I guess you need to be more picky about your targets, and smarter about avoiding fights you didn't initiate.

Being a successful pirate should be hard just as being a career criminal in the real world is hard. The day Frontier makes piracy easy-mode is the day ED becomes an absolute joke.

Quite. Pirates can save a lot of money by not paying their fines and bounties off. The point of being a pirates is not to make money, it's the thrill of the lifestyle.

 

[tagos]

Thank you for sharing you lack of interest in player interaction.

Being attacked by a pirate isn't 'interaction', it's unwanted attention. I'm fine with pirates so long as they embrace the outlaw lifestyle and I'd be fine with changes to black markets. IMO piracy should not be a casual choice you can pay off. It should be a choice with long-lasting and serious consequences. And if that means less 'casual, pretend pirates' then that's not a problem for me.

If people want to be pirates the game should make that an interesting but extremely rocky path.

 

[Majinvash]

Pushing people around with violence and extort their own private goods are a kind of player interaction that hardly deserve to be rewarded.
Player interaction is made of a consensual dialog, not a monodirectional threat.

O.P. is sad that he can't be rich by bullying- cry me a river.

Hi

Rich is not an issue I have 15mil, an a class cobra, asp, eagle. So making money isn't an issue.

Now you are, one or many of the following

A troll
A child
A combat logger
Unable to understand the writen word

It wasn't about making money, it was about game enrichment.

No pirates or bully's ( awww so sad ) = A traders only utopian universe. Where the only thing that gets in the way of you grinding to get a bigger ship, so that you can then grind to get a another bigger ship. Is the random and stupidly easy to deal with npc encounters.

Super awesome Funtimes

For that sort of excitment you might as well play desert bus.
The fake reward is about the same.

Majinvash

Pirate, hunter, trader, playboy, space .

 

[Komemiute]

What is it that you want? You are SO rich and SO amazing and yet still you complain about this...

Pirating just doesn't pay, now im not going to stop because its a damn sight more fun that Desert Bus but I only just broke even today and I had a very successful day.

Taking a side damage from fights ( I kill a lot of players today and stole probably about 800k in winnings ).
The integrity repairs from the over heating bit and the damage from interdictions.
Unless you luck out and convince a Type 6 to Abandon 20 gold, palladium etc each time.
You end up with stolen goods worth half what they should be.

The price of shield and chaff, hits too.

The good goody player vigilante force cost us too.. This is fine.. I had 3 on me at once today.. (Didn't loose a ship)

I think after one "successful" sortie, I came back with 85% hull. And a hold of booty.
I had to pay back about 8k in repairs, 15k in integrity. And about 9k in ammo,cells and chaff.
And that was with all the fights I would say I easily won.

So yeah.. In normal Elite Dangerous where you can expect a scuffle, its very hard to make a decent profit from pirating/bounty hunting.

Now I am sure you all love to hear the woes of a pirate but lets be honest. If there is no money in it, apart from the fun.

I'm no child, I'm no troll, I'm no combat logger and I'm actually glad if bested in a fight by a human- Didn't happen yet though- and pretty much capable of reading and writing in correct English.

But it does look like you described faults you know very well...
See you around... MajinVash... LOL.

 

[BadassPreacher]

When I started the game I had high hopes of one day having the biggest ship possible and making loads of virtual credits. I started trading from scratch and worked myself up to a T6 and 16 million credits in the bank. During that whole time I only got interdicted 3 times by other players, with the NPC's being no challenge whatsoever. (I always play in open, and just use solo for docking if there's a queue)

The fist time I was in my Sidewinder and got pulled out of SC by a Viper that immediately attacked me. The "fight" must have lasted less than 10 seconds, and then I was space dust. First I was angry, as I deemed it cowardly to attack a new player in a Sidewinder like that, but I got over it quickly. It's not like dying has any consequences in this game...

The second time I got pulled over by another Viper, I thought to myself "here we go again...". But I just received an apology from a guy saying that he thought I was wanted, and that I was free to leave.

Third time I was in my T6, hauling too much valuable cargo for my own good. I had enough to buy my ship back if something happened, but all of my extra credits were pretty much tied in that cargo. I got interdicted, and shortly received a message "kill your engines and drop 10% of your cargo". I was panicking, thinking about all the credits I could end up losing if things went sideways... I quickly dropped him 10 pieces of the gold I was hauling at the time, and fired up my engines. He started shooting at me regardless, though I wasn't sure if he actually saw that I dropped cargo and thought I was just running, but I managed to get away with some minor hull damage.

These three encounters couldn't have happened if there were no player pirates (and bounty hunters) in the game. I actually enjoy this sort of interaction because it makes the game feel alive, something that ED desperately needs... I don't remember any of the 1001 monotonous trading runs I made to get myself up to a T6 and 16 million credits, but I do remember the 3 player interactions during that time. It doesn't matter if the experiences were good or bad, I'd still take them over the completely safe and bland experience trading would be without them.

I'm sure no-one in this thread is asking for piracy to be easy, in my personal opinion it should be the most challenging play style you could pick. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be worth the players time in terms of credits. In the past I've said that this game has the worst balancing of Risk vs. Reward I've personally ever seen, and getting piracy to an acceptable level in terms of profits and respecting the time players put in, would be a decent start to correcting that balance.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Last time I checked Piracy wasn't a profession. It's a criminal act. You could have a career as a Pirate but not a profession.

If you want to be a successful pirate (as in, notorious and with "mo money") then I guess you need to be more picky about your targets, and smarter about avoiding fights you didn't initiate.

Being a successful pirate should be hard just as being a career criminal in the real world is hard. The day Frontier makes piracy easy-mode is the day ED becomes an absolute joke.

Why should it be just as hard as being a career criminal in the real world? Isn't this a game? Isn't it supposed to be fun? Shouldn't each career path offer the same incentive or are we all supposed to just trade because it's the only viable way to make money? The challenge of piracy is convincing your target to release some goodies, either by force or diplomacy with threat of force. That's the challenge. If you think that sounds easy, then try it. The problem with piracy as it stands is that, once that challenge is overcome, you're left with a dismal return rate on your stolen goods and the risk of being scanned and fined for possession of said goods, which usually results in a fine that's more than the goods are worth. It's broken. It needs fixing.

 

[DefiledDragon]

The point of being a pirates is not to make money, it's the thrill of the lifestyle.

Nonsense. This is a game, this isn't real life. What is this supposed "lifestyle"? The mechanics of piracy are pretty boring. You're not blowing people up, if you are then you're doing it wrong. You spend a lot of time flying at 30m/s with your cargo scoop deployed. The risk of being scanned doesn't just occur around stations, NPC cops can drop into your instance for a "random spot check" and they seem to have an uncanny nack of doing so when your hold is full of stolen goods. Within the context of the game, you're supposed to be able to make money, or is it just all the traders that are supposed to end up flying around in the most expensive ships while the rest of us scrape a pittance doing other things? Piracy is broken, as is bounty hunting for that matter. In fact, every career when compared to trading is completely pointless in terms of income. This needs to be fixed.

 

[Britannkic]

What would you pay for a stolen item? 100% retail? No way. In reality getting 50% on the black market is a good deal and pretty unrealistic, in general

The only goods which should fetch a premium are the prohibited and illegal goods, which need smuggling in.

Pirating has never been and will never be a 9 to 5 job. It's unpredictable and an unstable career.

In truth pirating precious metals, gold at the discounted 5k per ton for I stance, is generally the only way to make a decent living until FD allow hijacking of ships. Then pirates can sell the ships and make real treasure.

instead of limpets, we should launch assault pods with crew in them to take target ships

 

[DefiledDragon]

What would you pay for a stolen item? 100% retail? No way. In reality getting 50% on the black market is a good deal and pretty unrealistic, in general

Pretty unrealistic? Are you serious? You're flying around in a spaceship, travelling interstellar distances in seconds and you're talking about getting 50% for something that's stolen as being unrealistic? This isn't Euro Truck simulator. The game is set in a sci-fi fantasy universe where humans are capable of interstellar travel and everybody drives a spaceship. Realism isn't exactly on the menu. I just want to be able to split my time between the different career paths and still make a reasonable amount of money. As it is, people are having to trade to make enough money to fit a decent ship to do other stuff in, then trade some more when the other stuff that they do reduces their bank balance through repairs/insurance claims/fines/ammo costs etc... etc... The OP is absolutely right when he says that it's as if FD don't want people to do anything other than truck goods from one system to another, because right now, that's the only thing you can do to make decent amounts of money.

 

[pcstru]

One of the problems is that trade doesn't scale. There is a limited pool of goods with the most expensive being locked at ~10k cr. Frontier had an inkling of breaking out of this with rares, but once you have enough credits, you fill your holds with the stuff with the biggest profit margin (in cr not %). That places low limits on the risk in any individual trade. So what does that have to do with Piracy. Well, you can't interdict a ship with cargo pods worth more than ~10k cr. It should be possible for cargo to be valued in millions, billions even. There should probably be some diminishing return of profit as a function of amount (you might be able to turn twice the profit per tonne but require to make 10 times the investment), the essential is to allow risk to scale.

I'm sure that won't please some who would prefer to see trading nerfd but it is the backbone of the game and other behaviours piracy/protection have to hang off that. One of the challenges at the beginning of the game is when you have to use more of the goods available to generate a profit because you can't afford to fill your hold with palladium, all of your money is riding in the hold, dangerously at risk on your next trip. Risk. it needs to scale.