It's my party and I cry if I want to

[Globusdiablo]

Good. I should be able to inflict my cheap cockpit tat on others in every way, not just flybys

 

[ilo]

This is a common issue in games where the first-person perspective is not unified with what another player will see from the third-person perspective. I've discussed this at length in other threads but basically it has to do with the game engine "cheating" to show one set of animations for the first-person view and another, completely separate, set of animations for the third-person view. We rarely notice this because we never (or almost never) have the two views side-by-side to compare but sometimes the lack of unified models is quite apparent. In the case of the Krait there is a triangular antenna mounting point that you can see when looking directly upward in the first-person view but this structure is completely absent in the third-person external camera view. Essentially what you see in-game is not quite what everyone else sees. The only game that has actually properly and completely unified the first-person and third-person views is Star Citizen and it required them to completely re-write the fps engine in CryEngine to accomplish this. No one else has ever bothered to try to achieve this level of fidelity and I assume that the Cobra engine would require an almost complete re-write as well to properly unify the perspectives. That's why it doesn't surprise me at all that a CMDR's dashboard decorations aren't visible to other players in multi-crew, really a completely new set of animations from the perspective of the multi-crew players would need to be created and rendered for them and considering the stability issues that still happen with multicrew I doubt that FD has the interest or resources to implement them.

Devari, it is simpler than that. It is called QA. Not that test don't pass, but some (or a lot) of these QA tests might need a buff..

 

[WR3ND]

I'm like 90% sure there's been a thread with this same title before, or at least one with a play on it – the song.

Oh well, as you were.

Cheers.

 

[Devari]

Devari, it is simpler than that. It is called QA. Not that test don't pass, but some (or a lot) of these QA tests might need a buff..

Well I am assuming here that there may not even be any intention to have certain features, such as cockpit decorations, even displayed in the third-person view. In that sense they may have been well aware of the issue and simply lacked the time or resources to develop the separate set of animations/textures for those objects. Considering the stability issues and missing content we had for multicrew I suspect it would not have been a priority even if they intended to develop it.

I do agree on the issue of QA in general and in particular for Elite, given that they released the first version of the Guardian FSD booster without apparently testing it on a single ship even once before it launched. I mean that is pretty embarrassing so I am not putting any faith in FD's ability to test content before we receive it. Still I am not even sure this was a QA issue but rather an issue of "time and resources" in terms of getting multicrew working and the third-person decoration animations were likely just not a priority at all.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Well I am assuming here that there may not even be any intention to have certain features, such as cockpit decorations, even displayed in the third-person view. In that sense they may have been well aware of the issue and simply lacked the time or resources to develop the separate set of animations/textures for those objects. Considering the stability issues and missing content we had for multicrew I suspect it would not have been a priority even if they intended to develop it.

I do agree on the issue of QA in general and in particular for Elite, given that they released the first version of the Guardian FSD booster without apparently testing it on a single ship even once before it launched. I mean that is pretty embarrassing so I am not putting any faith in FD's ability to test content before we receive it. Still I am not even sure this was a QA issue but rather an issue of "time and resources" in terms of getting multicrew working and the third-person decoration animations were likely just not a priority at all.

As an aside: I'm not talking about third person view, but first person view while MultiCrewing.

 

[Devari]

As an aside: I'm not talking about third person view, but first person view while MultiCrewing.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you see your own decorations when multicrew is connected? If so then you are seeing those with your first-person view.

If other players can't see those decorations when on your multicrew bridge, they are viewing your ship cockpit in third-person view, i.e., they are placed a location in the cockpit where they don't see the same thing that you see. They are seeing your bridge rendered as if it were a third-person observer with an external camera.

Essentially you are seeing one thing with first-person view and everyone else is seeing something else with third-person view.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you see your own decorations when multicrew is connected? If so then you are seeing those with your first-person view.

If other players can't see those decorations when on your multicrew bridge, they are viewing your ship cockpit in third-person view, i.e., they are placed a location in the cockpit where they don't see the same thing that you see. They are seeing your bridge rendered as if it were a third-person observer with an external camera.

Essentially you are seeing one thing with first-person view and everyone else is seeing something else with third-person view.

Ah, I see. A misunderstanding in terminology. I'm talking the general first or third person view related to video games.

​

Ergo; everything in Elite: Dangerous is viewed in first person, except for the camera function of course.

-------------------

But as krylite rightly points out, some items show, others do not. Ergo: sloppy chop shop coding.

Some customizations from the store still work in multicrew such as the player avatar's suit and accessories, the color of weapon fire seen from inside the ship etc. Maybe when spacelegs gets into full swing, those other store items' persistence across multicrew will be fixed.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

While I dont use multicrew much, I wonder if the exclusion of bobbleheads from the view of the guests is due to network synchronisation issues? I mean we all know the P2P network model they use is at best charitably described as flaky, would you rather the synchronisation got the position and vector of other ships correct, or the oscillation and relative illumination of cabin decorations?

 

[Jukelo]

Have you reported it?

 

[Globusdiablo]

While I dont use multicrew much, I wonder if the exclusion of bobbleheads from the view of the guests is due to network synchronisation issues? I mean we all know the P2P network model they use is at best charitably described as flaky, would you rather the synchronisation got the position and vector of other ships correct, or the oscillation and relative illumination of cabin decorations?

2018. Multiplayer game (allegedly). Shared environments. Vanity items. Some show, others do not.

Spoiler

sloppy coding

Have you reported it?

Aye.

 

[Factabulous]

I'm sure it's unrelated to possibilities of swearing using the bobblehead alphabet. Some right cacks out there

 

[Jukelo]

I'm sure it's unrelated to possibilities of swearing using the bobblehead alphabet. Some right cacks out there

That would be even sillier than the ship name filter.

 

[Devari]

Ah, I see. A misunderstanding in terminology. I'm talking the general first or third person view related to video games.

I understand what you're trying to say but you seem to have forgotten that if someone is on your bridge they are viewing it in third-person view via. telepresence. Yes, they have a HUD but they are considered an "external camera" view which is equivalent to a third-person perspective. If they are connected via. multicrew it is essentially an external camera on your bridge and therefore gives them a third-person perspective of what is happening there. Effectively they are viewing your character from another location on the bridge, not from the first-person perspective of their own CMDR. It's exactly the same idea as if you're using the SRV turret where you can actually see your cockpit from the turret camera, which is also third-person despite there being a HUD, i.e., it is an external camera view as well.

 

[Morbad]

would you rather the synchronisation got the position and vector of other ships correct, or the oscillation and relative illumination of cabin decorations?

It often doesn't do either:

[video=youtube;YN5ixjfY4us]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN5ixjfY4us[/video]

 

[Globusdiablo]

I understand what you're trying to say but you seem to have forgotten that if someone is on your bridge they are viewing it in third-person view via. telepresence. Yes, they have a HUD but they are considered an "external camera" view which is equivalent to a third-person perspective. If they are connected via. multicrew it is essentially an external camera on your bridge and therefore gives them a third-person perspective of what is happening there. Effectively they are viewing your character from another location on the bridge, not from the first-person perspective of their own CMDR. It's exactly the same idea as if you're using the SRV turret where you can actually see your cockpit from the turret camera, which is also third-person despite there being a HUD, i.e., it is an external camera view as well.

Can't agree, as third person view in my opinion is equal to "over the shoulder" view as I descibed earlier. Can agree to teleprecense however.

[video=youtube;7sbncTUZiGk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sbncTUZiGk[/video]​

 

[rOmiLaYu]

I'm sure it's unrelated to possibilities of swearing using the bobblehead alphabet. Some right cacks out there

Yet, the other day, I discovered a system by the name of Acokwang.

 

[Devari]

Can't agree, as third person view in my opinion is equal to "over the shoulder" view as I descibed earlier. Can agree to teleprecense however.

Well the cockpit decorations that you're seeing (or rather not seeing in the case of multicrew) are being viewed literally "over the shoulder" of the pilot. You are looking at their dashboard not from the pilot's first-person perspective but from the third-person perspective of your CMDR's multicrew seat on the bridge. You should see both the pilot and their dashboard properly and yet the animations/objects are clearly not unified from both views which tells me that the muticrew seats are being treated exactly like an external third-person camera that is not equivalent to the pilot's own first-person view.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...You should see both the pilot and their dashboard properly and yet the animations/objects are clearly not unified from both views which tells me that the muticrew seats are being treated exactly like an external third-person camera that is not equivalent to the pilot's own first-person view.

So when I sit here and look around my axis, you call it a third person view?:

I call it first person view. My point of view. When I look around the axis is my center, not the host.

Have you ever actually joined another ship in MultiCrew? Anyway, this is getting off topic.

No matter what we call the view, we agree that when using telepresence we're in the same space (of the host), but the telepresence only sees some of the hosts livery, not all. Agreed?

 

[Devari]

So when I sit here and look around my axis, you call it a third person view?:

Your console and HUD is a first-person view only for what is in front of you. Looking at anyone else's console or pilot's chair is third-person. How is this not clear? If you are literally looking at someone else sitting in their chair that is quite clearly third-person. Even in your screenshot you can see the pilot sitting in their chair which is quite obviously showing a third-person view of the pilot's console (and presumably is also not properly showing any decorations they would have on their console dashboard).

I call it first person view. My point of view. When I look around the axis is my center, not the host.

It is only first-person for what's at your console. It is third-person if you are looking at what is at someone else's console.

Have you ever actually joined another ship in MultiCrew? Anyway, this is getting off topic.

Yes, I use multicrew with my second account and look around the cockpit in multicrew regularly. The main point of me using multicrew is simply so I have an "NPC" visible in the cockpit so they are literally there for decoration as far as I'm concerned. The pip bonus is nice but only really relevant in combat and the rebuy discount is also nice but I don't expect to use it as I don't plan on having my ship destroyed.

On the topic of what you're actually seeing in multicrew, there is also a delay of as long as 1-2 seconds when you load into an instance. Not only is there a loading delay at transition points there is of course the latency issue as well causing at least some lag. I notice this quite clearly if I have my second account connected because the audio cues are slightly delayed as if there's an "echo" due to the latency. I actually shut down the audio on the second laptop because the audio "echo" is annoying. This is with using two computers in the same household connected to the same internet connection so I can imagine it would be even worse when you're joining multicrew from another location. Not only are the first-person and third-person views not properly unified there's also the issue of there being at least some lag to deal with as well.

No matter what we call the view, we agree that when using telepresence we're in the same space (of the host), but the telepresence only sees some of the hosts livery, not all. Agreed?

I'll take your word for this since I don't have any cockpit decorations to check myself but as I mentioned earlier it would not surprise me at all because your multicrew character is looking at the pilot's cockpit and console using a third-person perspective to observe what the pilot sees from a first-person view. You are seeing the pilot but not the decorations because those decorations are only visible from the pilot's own first-person perspective. When games refer to first-person and third-person view they are referring to what your character sees from their own perspective vs. what another character sees when looking at the same location from a third-person perspective.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Your console and HUD is a first-person view only for what is in front of you. Looking at anyone else's console or pilot's chair is third-person. How is this not clear? If you are literally looking at someone else sitting in their chair that is quite clearly third-person. Even in your screenshot you can see the pilot sitting in their chair which is quite obviously showing a third-person view of the pilot's console (and presumably is also not properly showing any decorations they would have on their console dashboard).



It is only first-person for what's at your console. It is third-person if you are looking at what is at someone else's console.



Yes, I use multicrew with my second account and look around the cockpit in multicrew regularly. The main point of me using multicrew is simply so I have an "NPC" visible in the cockpit so they are literally there for decoration as far as I'm concerned. The pip bonus is nice but only really relevant in combat and the rebuy discount is also nice but I don't expect to use it as I don't plan on having my ship destroyed.

On the topic of what you're actually seeing in multicrew, there is also a delay of as long as 1-2 seconds when you load into an instance. Not only is there a loading delay at transition points there is of course the latency issue as well causing at least some lag. I notice this quite clearly if I have my second account connected because the audio cues are slightly delayed as if there's an "echo" due to the latency. I actually shut down the audio on the second laptop because the audio "echo" is annoying. This is with using two computers in the same household connected to the same internet connection so I can imagine it would be even worse when you're joining multicrew from another location. Not only are the first-person and third-person views not properly unified there's also the issue of there being at least some lag to deal with as well.



I'll take your word for this since I don't have any cockpit decorations to check myself but as I mentioned earlier it would not surprise me at all because your multicrew character is looking at the pilot's cockpit and console using a third-person perspective to observe what the pilot sees from a first-person view. You are seeing the pilot but not the decorations because those decorations are only visible from the pilot's own first-person perspective. When games refer to first-person and third-person view they are referring to what your character sees from their own perspective vs. what another character sees when looking at the same location from a third-person perspective.

Fair enough. Good points all.

So back to my main point: why is some livery shared but not all? I consider it sloppy development. Others disagree I see.