It's time for a steamcharts thread!

[babelfisch]

The fact I idle in the menu, but am playing a different game, or watching TV, or making dinner, or otherwise not playing ED makes the numbers unreliable.
At best it's a licence counter, but not indicative of the qty of people playing the game.

And this wasn't possible before 3.3? Why?

 

[RexKraemer]

So Steam Charts /= Steam charts?
Because Valve is referring specifically to Steam Charts data in that article, (edit) from what I gather.
And that data is tainted according to them.

It's a single direction confound/problem so increased numbers would not be shown to their full extent, and a decrease might not be true at all, or be overstated.

Steam numbers != SteamSpy != SteamCharts

!= means: not equal

If you now questioning SteamCharts, you can always recheck data using steam numbers directly in the steam clients stats. And you will see the trend is still true.

Only talking about number trends, no doom-no-doom claim.
And "you" is "anybody", not you personally, its about your argument in general, which is valid in a specific sense, which needs to be always considered.

 

[babelfisch]

So Steam Charts /= Steam charts?
Because Valve is referring specifically to Steam Charts data in that article, (edit) from what I gather.
And that data is tainted according to them.

It's a single direction confound/problem so increased numbers would not be shown to their full extent, and a decrease might not be true at all, or be overstated.

No, the difference lies between Steamchars and Steamspy. The data that Steamcharts relies on didn't change while Steamspy used to gather all kinds of additional data like number of owners, playing time per user, etc. This data is no longer available.

 

[EUS]

And this wasn't possible before 3.3? Why?

I've already stated that I wasn't part of the stats before 3.3
I don't know what anyone else is doing, for all we know a whole bunch of people ported over after 3.3

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

No, the difference lies between Steamchars and Steamspy. The data that Steamcharts relies on didn't change while Steamspy used to gather all kinds of additional data like number of owners, playing time per user, etc. This data is no longer available.

That's not what it says there at all, quite the contrary.
So with all due respect, do you have anything to support your claim?

 

[babelfisch]

I was discussing semantics. Steam lists everyone as active players. I disagree. That's it.
But I struck some nerves here, so I better stop before some heads explode.

You didn't argue semantics, you argued against a point nobody made.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Steam numbers != SteamSpy != SteamCharts

!= means: not equal

If you now questioning SteamCharts, you can always recheck data using steam numbers directly in the steam clients stats. And you will see the trend is still true.

Only talking about number trends, no doom-no-doom claim.
And "you" is "anybody", not you personally, its about your argument in general, which is valid in a specific sense, which needs to be always considered.

I am quoting the article and being specific.
You wrote "steam charts".
Did you mean "Steam Charts" or are you referring to something else?

You guys are saying a lot of stuff that appears just pulled out of thin air.

 

[babelfisch]

I've already stated that I wasn't part of the stats before 3.3
I don't know what anyone else is doing, for all we know a whole bunch of people ported over after 3.3

Sorry, you missed the point.

 

[RexKraemer]

I was discussing semantics. Steam lists everyone as active players. I disagree. That's it.
But I struck some nerves here, so I better stop before some heads explode.

No worries, I have no excitement here.
I try to put the value of steam numbers into proper perspective.

I am a little bit triggered (without bad feelings) whenever I read that steam charts/numbers are worthless in general.

 

[babelfisch]

That's not what it says there at all, quite the contrary.
So with all due respect, do you have anything to support your claim?

The numbers come from Valve themselves.

https://steamcommunity.com/dev

You can easily check it yourself. Open Steam, select Elite, click on Community Hub. Steam tells you how many members are currently in game. That's completely unrelated to your privacy settings.

PS
Or follow this link:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/359320

 

[EUS]

Sorry, you missed the point.

Well, it's always time for a steamcharts thread, even though they tend to be silly. Or maybe precisely because they tend to be silly!

Since it's a silly thread, you're right, I didn't know there is a point.
Was having to choose a pro-doooom, or contra-doooom side the point?

 

[babelfisch]

Since it's a silly thread, you're right, I didn't know there is a point.
Was having to choose a pro-doooom, or contra-doooom side the point?

It would be enough if you understand why it doesn't matter if you are in the launcher or in game.

 

[RexKraemer]

I am quoting the article and being specific.
You wrote "steam charts".
Did you mean "Steam Charts" or are you referring to something else?

You guys are saying a lot of stuff that appears just pulled out of thin air.

It is SteamCharts, not Steam Charts.
And it is SteamSpy.

And before your link to the article I always just meant the numbers counted by steam and which are available in the steam client. These numbers are sometimes refered to as steam charts.

But we are not discussing SteamCharts or SteamSpy or any other derived work. We discuss that currently steam numbers are on a high and what this means. And sometimes when somebody claims something with steam numbers they show a screenshot from SteamCharts.

This seems to be a mess from a statisticians view, thats true, but it doesn't change the fact, that steam numbers are very reliable and very helpfull and are publicly available. And they show a maximum since some days.

General say, stating that steam numbers are worthless is thin air.

 

[RexKraemer]

Since it's a silly thread, you're right, I didn't know there is a point.
Was having to choose a pro-doooom, or contra-doooom side the point?

It seems that I am off-topic now, not silly enough ;-)

 

[babelfisch]

It is SteamCharts, not Steam Charts.
And it is SteamSpy.

And before your link to the article I always just meant the numbers counted by steam and which are available in the steam client. These numbers are sometimes refered to as steam charts.

But we are not discussing SteamCharts or SteamSpy or any other derived work. We discuss that currently steam numbers are on a high and what this means. And sometimes when somebody claims something with steam numbers they show a screenshot from SteamCharts.

This seems to be a mess from a statisticians view, thats true, but it doesn't change the fact, that steam numbers are very reliable and very helpfull and are publicly available. And they show a maximum since some days.

General say, stating that steam numbers are worthless is thin air.

Actually SteamCharts gets their numbers directly from Valve. They are just as accurate as the numbers shown in the steam client since they are the same numbers. The only difference is that SteamCharts only updates their numbers hourly.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

The numbers come from Valve themselves.

https://steamcommunity.com/dev

You can easily check it yourself. Open Steam, select Elite, click on Community Hub. Steam tells you how many members are currently in game. That's completely unrelated to your privacy settings.

PS
Or follow this link:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/359320

Why would Steam show people playing that they don't even record as owners of the game?
Why would the API not have access to that public data as well, if as you're suggesting it's more complete?
None of that makes sense.

You are contradicting exactly what is says in that article, and you're not in a position to logically do so and have your words taken for granted.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It is SteamCharts, not Steam Charts.
And it is SteamSpy.

And before your link to the article I always just meant the numbers counted by steam and which are available in the steam client. These numbers are sometimes refered to as steam charts.

But we are not discussing SteamCharts or SteamSpy or any other derived work. We discuss that currently steam numbers are on a high and what this means. And sometimes when somebody claims something with steam numbers they show a screenshot from SteamCharts.

This seems to be a mess from a statisticians view, thats true, but it doesn't change the fact, that steam numbers are very reliable and very helpfull and are publicly available. And they show a maximum since some days.

General say, stating that steam numbers are worthless is thin air.

So my point stands despite the spacing.

So where do you get the notion that they are using different data sets?

Why would SteamCharts not have access to what you are suggesting is public data?

If Valve changes defaults of ownership data, why wouldn't that extend to players too?
Players are a subset of owners.

It sounds like poorly thought out nonsense, and I have no dog in this fight.

 

[babelfisch]

Why would Steam show people playing that they don't even record as owners of the game?

That doesn't make any sense, Steam does of course know if you own a game on Steam. Open Steam, check your libary, see your games. They also know if you are playing it. Unless you are using Steam in offline mode, which is pretty irrelevant since you need to be online to play Elite.

Why would the API not have access to that public data as well, if as you're suggesting it's more complete?

The API does have access to that data, it's the very same data. The API is provided by Valve themselves, giving out the same numbers you can see on the community HUB, again, provided by Valve themselves. SteamCharts is based on this data.

None of that makes sense.

I am tempted to say the same thing.

You are contradicting exactly what is says in that article, and you're not in a position to logically do so and have your words taken for granted.

First, you apparantly didn't understand the article. It is not about SteamCharts but about Steamspy, which didn't just display concurrent players like SteamCharts does, but also displayed individual user based data like hours spend in game, etc. This data is no longer available. The author of the article wrongly assumes at the end that SteamCharts relies on the same data, which is false. I've already shown you proof for that by linking to Valve themselves.

 

[babelfisch]

So my point stands despite the spacing.

So where do you get the notion that they are using different data sets?

Why would SteamCharts not have access to what you are suggesting is public data?

If Valve changes defaults of ownership data, why wouldn't that extend to players too?
Players are a subset of owners.

It sounds like poorly thought out nonsense, and I have no dog in this fight.

The data which is publically available isn't individualised like it was the case with SteamSpy. SteamSpy needed access to your Steam Profile in order to get their detailed data, this is no longer viable because Valve set all Steam Profiles automatically to private. SteamCharts is completely unaffected from that change because it doesn't rely on data pulled from Steam Player Profiles but from Steam themselves.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

That doesn't make any sense, Steam does of course know if you own a game on Steam. Open Steam, check your libary, see your games. They also know if you are playing it. Unless you are using Steam in offline mode, which is pretty irrelevant since you need to be online to play Elite.


The API does have access to that data, it's the very same data. The API is provided by Valve themselves, giving out the same numbers you can see on the community HUB, again, provided by Valve themselves. SteamCharts is based on this data.

I am tempted to say the same thing.


First, you apparantly didn't understand the article. It is not about SteamCharts but about Steamspy, which didn't just display concurrent players like SteamCharts does, but also displayed individual user based data like hours spend in game, etc. This data is no longer available. The author of the article wrongly assumes at the end that SteamCharts relies on the same data, which is false. I've already shown you proof for that by linking to Valve themselves.

From Valve:

you will be able to manage how you are viewed by your friends, or the wider Steam Community.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1667896941884942467


LOL

The context here is obviously if the information is "public".