It's time to yell at a brick wall - aka.. Request something to be done about trading
- Thread starter Darth Ender
- Start date
Before 1.3 i was a bounty hunter. I'm not a beta tester. I accumulated 199million in bounty credits. I had tested trading during my progression to an FDL a little (40 mil worth) in various ships (cobra, asp, T7). Once i hit around 199 mil in bounty credits, I sold everything and got an anaconda. I then went trading, so no, i'm not looking to take advantage and then keep everyone else from doing so as well - i progressed to an anaconda through bounty credits. My two station route nets me 2700cr/ton round trip with 1 intermediate jump. 1.3 dropped and i continued my route. Did my ship layout or relative safety change at all ? No. The pirate interdictions are a joke and anyone who is using it to justify that FD is making trade risky is lying. I have an anaconda, not some ship that doesn't have hardpoints, why would a single eagle try to pirate me? Why would a single viper or cobra or even sidewinder? That's the kind of risk you face in 1.3 as a trader. Shiver me timbers.
If you want this new behavior/mechanic to add risk to traders then it needs to be a bit intelligent and scale to the player's ship and skill rating. I should be getting attacked by pirate wings, not single ships that have no hope _at_all_ of ever getting my loot. Also, they wait _way_ too long before interdicting, i purposely slow down so they do it otherwise i'm usually out of that system or out of SC before they make their futile attempt to have my gold.
I want to see a shift from space trucker to space courier.. Independent , special purpose transports that get paid for special one off deliveries or deliveries through dangerous territories or even illegal at destination or intermediate areas. I want to see the commodity screen be something you only care to look at when working with systems in a state of war (this would upset existing trade agreements and open the door to opportunistic trading). The idea is not that profit is being reduced to balance things, it's that predictability is being removed and risk is added to balance trade profit.
If you want this new behavior/mechanic to add risk to traders then it needs to be a bit intelligent and scale to the player's ship and skill rating. I should be getting attacked by pirate wings, not single ships that have no hope _at_all_ of ever getting my loot. Also, they wait _way_ too long before interdicting, i purposely slow down so they do it otherwise i'm usually out of that system or out of SC before they make their futile attempt to have my gold.
I want to see a shift from space trucker to space courier.. Independent , special purpose transports that get paid for special one off deliveries or deliveries through dangerous territories or even illegal at destination or intermediate areas. I want to see the commodity screen be something you only care to look at when working with systems in a state of war (this would upset existing trade agreements and open the door to opportunistic trading). The idea is not that profit is being reduced to balance things, it's that predictability is being removed and risk is added to balance trade profit.
I think that there has already been too much help for Bounty Hunters, Pirates and other combat orientated players, and that in the next update there should be more help for traders, starting with a new ship:
The Maersk Class T5, 15,000 TEU containers, 100,000 tonnes of cargo capacity, 1300 ft long ( we will need to have a new outside docking point at stations, classed as XXXL)! The manoeuvrability of a small asteroid and enough hardpoints to fit up to 100 assorted turrets to sort out those pesky and whining Pew Pew merchants. Just imagine what effect a 100,000 ton payload could have on CG's, PP, let alone my virtual wallet!
More power to Traders I say, after all every empire is built on trade, something everybody seem's to conveniently forget!
The Maersk Class T5, 15,000 TEU containers, 100,000 tonnes of cargo capacity, 1300 ft long ( we will need to have a new outside docking point at stations, classed as XXXL)! The manoeuvrability of a small asteroid and enough hardpoints to fit up to 100 assorted turrets to sort out those pesky and whining Pew Pew merchants. Just imagine what effect a 100,000 ton payload could have on CG's, PP, let alone my virtual wallet!
More power to Traders I say, after all every empire is built on trade, something everybody seem's to conveniently forget!
now that i would like i would give pirats a diffrent role to play. and make the market more fluid.
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Well, we are ALL happy that you have an Anaconda. I have a Lakon Type-6. I am here to tell you that trading in a Type 6 has become much more difficult since the drop of 1.3. I have been killed four times since the 1.3 drop. 2x by NPCs and two times by player WINGS (A pair of Fer-De-Lances to kill a Type 6. Really guys? But the universe is full of bullies). No, I -wasn't- asleep when it happened either. The first NPC that killed me was, funny enough, flying an Anaconda. I submitted planning to do the 3x boost and SC, he had me dead before my second boost was done. So the next interdiction by NPCs I attempted to evade but could not because of the poor maneuverability of the Type-6. He killed me before I had even stopped spinning and I have no idea what he was flying. Both of the bullies (errr, PvPers) that killed me basically interdicted me, dropped my shields with the first shot and blew me up with the second salvo. With the new 1.3 drop it seems that the merchant players will have to retreat to solo/group mode and leave open play to all the bullies. Except for the merchants that have obtained their Anaconda already that is, those guys are safe. Your proposal as it stands would kill trading and destroy the reason that the Type 9 was even created. Your vision would even eliminate any need at all for the commodity screen, as the systems at war would only need to have a "trade" screen that listed what they were paying more for. The combat zones fixed the combat zerg pilots money problem. Why do you want to make it impossible for anyone else to get to an Anaconda? That is what would happen if your system were implemented. But, I -could- go along with YOUR system so long as FD sent me a check for $75.00 USD AND reset everyone to a Sidewinder and 1000 CR. After all, we wouldn't want YOU to benefit from all of that money that was too easy to earn.
You don't need to get so mad at him for making this post, many of the things you accused him of i am sure he did not actually mean. The way that you think this system will play out will result in him benefiting most, but what may be common sense to you doesn't mean that will actually happen if this was implemented into the game. he just wants the game to be more fun and enjoyable as well as balanced for everyone and he is offering his opinion. It is impossible to know if it will work as you thought or work differently unless tested. While it is fine to disagree with his opinion you shouldn't make accusations that he was trying to make the game more fun for him and less fun for everyone else as that was clearly not his intent. if everyone gave their idea for what should be done about trading, someone would figure out the best solution, but if we discourage people that have an idea then trading will be left as mindlessly going from point a to point b, (i haven't been successfully interdicted while trading yet, but it still could happen and i have a type 6 as well, it is still fairly safe from what i have seen ).
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I have traded a lot, always in open and have achieved "Tycoon" status, I dont run from interdictions I submit and fight, unfortunately nearly all the interdictions are from A1 not real players, I now trade in a Anaconda fully kitted out to fight so I am no easy target, plus I have a "Dangerous" combat rating so I know how to handle myself, and if I get blown up in the fight, all well and good its part of the game and I can now afford the losses.
Trading is a means to an end, its the fastest way to earn those credits to buy the goodies to go into combat zones and resource sites and have some combat fun, or to fully kit out a Python to go pirating in.
You say there are no risks trading, lose a fully loaded T9 or Anaconda to a pirate and that is millions of credits lost and possibly weeks of game play, yes the rewards can be high but so are the risks.
People forget Elite Dangerous is a space trading game and trading is the fastest way to make money.
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Exactly the point I made in my thread, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=157425.
Because for me, they have simply not finished the core of the game yet, and they need to get it done.
We should have Multi-drop trading missions, Wing missions (including trade with escort missions), people passengers for the Orca, exploration needs an overhaul (I just popped out for 10,000 ly's to go sight seeing, what a joke), Tracking bounty missions, where you have to go to other stations to get info, check the stations ship data base see if your ship has been there...
Power play is not finished and completely unbalance (definitely) and implemented wrong, IMO.
Now they are doing CQC and still the main core of the game is still so barren and they wonder why people get upset.
well, they tried to rework the bounty missions, so maybe they are working on an overhaul for the others too?
Hauling missions that scale up with your Trader rank for example?
Exactly... Even with wings for dangerous highly prized cargo with you mates protecting you over multiple jumps to station a 100 light years away or more.
This is the core of the game that should have been finished by now...
There are missions like that already. I've seen missions that require entrepreneur rank or elite. I'm sure there's more, I just wasn't paying attention. The pay wasn't great considering, but it was a cheap good, gold or paladium will be a lot higher.
Smuggler missions also require a trade rank of a certain level.
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sure they are there, but as far as i know they are not scaling.
most of what i have seen require to transport like 1-4t of X and receive around 10-50k for it.
Fair enough, I haven't taken enough to notice anything off. I just know I saw a few, I didn't know they paid very little.
What about the find and deliver missions, how do they pay?
Yes, that is current state of game balance - if you like to fly from A to B and B to A you are clear winner in this game
I really do not understand how FD can not see this big elephant in the room..thats there from Beta versions...
Now situation after few other carrier buffs are better, but anyway you are second class citizen in this game, if you do not trade...
I don't trade myself but I can tell that trading is dangerous enough already as they usually have no armor, shields and weapons. Even NPCs are a danger. And carrying tonnes of goods with you, getting destroyed will not only cost your insurance but also your cargo, which can sum up to 10 million credits at once. That means hours of trading again.
Additionally it is a pure corea grind so boring AF, fighting forces you to actively do something so you don't fall asleep.
Additionally it is a pure corea grind so boring AF, fighting forces you to actively do something so you don't fall asleep.
Problem is that high-end (Python, Conda) ships and modules prices are so high, that you can afford them only by trading in reasonable time, but pure traders can easy get A-graded high-end ships...
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And it's complete like this that gets all the ignorant wannabee hot shot space pilots up in arms. It has never been 20mil and hour and certainly is no where near 11 even now. 4-5 is the average in a top tier ship, maybe 6 or 7 if you're very lucky but that certainly won't be the norm.
You nerf trading profits, then hardly anyone would bother trading. Seriously, 80% of the player traders in the game would probably disappear.
Anyway, which of these professions would you expect to earn the most in real life? Soldier, mugger, miner or trader. The answer is pretty obvious isn't it. You don't become a soldier to earn yourself a fortune, you become one for the adventure and excitement. Likewise being a trader is hardly the most exciting job in the world, but it's a steady safe job and the income is good. You pick the profession that appeals to you most.
In ED you can do any of those from one day to the next. Need to roll some credit in, then get yourself in a cargo ship and go earn some creds. Fancy a bit of action, jump in a fighter and go blast some stuff. No one is forcing you into only playing one profession. If you choose to do nothing but bounty hunting, well then that's your choice. So don't moan that you're not earning as much money as trading, because there's nothing stopping you from doing some trading yourself.
There is no luck involved you just need to know exploits or bugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxshmooh3lw
anyway 6-7m/hour is OP comparing to other carriers like. mining exploring...
Yes, I agree that trading could be made more intersting. No, I have no idea how to do that.
However, here's something to ponder.
IF trading was reduced to 1% profit (And that is purely size envy - your pile is bigger than my pile, Wah!) what does that do to the player pirates? They would end up losing money to play the way they want [not right, not what was promised by FD]. Pirates are already having a bad time, and this ends up penalising them more. Players will move away from pirating, so the player bounty hunters will lose out.
So in one stroke, you change the balance of power, nerf 3 professions , and make exploring the most profitable in the game. Which presumably means it will be the next to be targetted.
.
Don't complain that others have more food on their plate when it's gruel and you are chowing into a big, juicy steak. Learn the difference between quantity and quality.
Most of the traders I know are trading to either get their elite status, or to afford the ship and loadout they actually want to do what they actually want, or more of the time a mixture of both.
.
And if anyone gets FD to give them a complete refund or start everyone back in a stock sidey + 1,000Cr, I'm taking the refund! This game is turning into one big [Bleep] measuring contest.
However, here's something to ponder.
IF trading was reduced to 1% profit (And that is purely size envy - your pile is bigger than my pile, Wah!) what does that do to the player pirates? They would end up losing money to play the way they want [not right, not what was promised by FD]. Pirates are already having a bad time, and this ends up penalising them more. Players will move away from pirating, so the player bounty hunters will lose out.
So in one stroke, you change the balance of power, nerf 3 professions , and make exploring the most profitable in the game. Which presumably means it will be the next to be targetted.
.
Don't complain that others have more food on their plate when it's gruel and you are chowing into a big, juicy steak. Learn the difference between quantity and quality.
Most of the traders I know are trading to either get their elite status, or to afford the ship and loadout they actually want to do what they actually want, or more of the time a mixture of both.
.
And if anyone gets FD to give them a complete refund or start everyone back in a stock sidey + 1,000Cr, I'm taking the refund! This game is turning into one big [Bleep] measuring contest.