It's VR crunch time commanders, and I need your help !

[loribee]

I bought a Pimax 4k, if your not bothered about room scale or the hand controllers (I have HOTAS for ED and a decent steering wheel set up) for the games you're playing then it's higher resolution and better "screen door" effect makes it good value if you get it from Gearbest in one of their flash sales.

Mine was about £240 so even with the OR price drop it's still a good value way into VR, i will probably buy a Rift or Vive eventually but the Pimax is very good for the sit down games I'm interested in at the moment so I'll wait for the next gen before I worry about room scale i think.

(I did try both OR and Vive, neither seemed worth the extra cash UNLESS I wanted room scale, the Pimax definitely has them beaten on picture quality and set up but the OR was more comfortable to wear, not that the Pimax is bad, just not as good as OR, about the same as Vive.)

I actually play with the Pimax (although they appeared to send me the BE version, which is *not* 4k, it's actually less at 2k, but still a better resolution than the Rift and Vive and has a better refresh rate than the original Pimax 4k -- original 4k is 60hz, the BE is 95-120hz)

There is a 'dift' issue with the headset, because it needs to rely on gyro's for tracking, which are not the most reliable, but if you're using a HOTAS or controller, then you can just bind the re-center key to one of the buttons, so it's not that big a deal

If you're looking to just play Elite (and you're fairly tech-savvy) then I would add the Pimax for consideration. If you're after a more holistic experience, and want to play other stuff in VR, then I would not go with the Pimax.

 

[Gunner Deckard]

I got the Vive and I love it. I can also play most rift games (On my Vive) with a program called Revive.

 

[Frank]

The Rift is very polished. I can't imagine the VIVE being any more polished. I don't know where you got the idea that you have to keep going through the setup procedure. It might be someone who had difficulty with his USB3 ports. If you have a capable computer I don't think this will be a problem, and if your play area is 2m × 3m then just the two sensors will do you fine.

The main reason people say the image quality on the CV1 is better than the VIVE is pixel density. The image quality on both headsets is roughly the same but the VIVE stretches the image to wrap around more of your view. This is great for getting that feeling of presence, but not so good when you are trying to tell how that spaceship in the distance is pointing, or trying to read the coordinates on a moon surface. The difference on paper between the two headsets should be very small, and so the complaint of poor image quality with Elite in the VIVE is more likely to be some sort of driver issue that may well be resolved in the future.

Don't just think that because the CV1 is half the price of the VIVE then in must be half the quality. Facebook have very deep pockets, and they are aggressively pursuing the market to establish their walled garden. It took me a long time to decide which headset to buy last year. If the prices were so vastly different at that time then it would've been an easy decision.

 

[Craith]

I had this problem about one year ago, and in the end I bought myself a VIVE. I am following VR since '94 when the VFX1 Headgear got released, but just now it reached a reasonable buy-in price in my opinion (still not mass-market though).

• I was following the Rift development, but waited for the CV1. Then they got bought by facebook, and they told us they will have to slightly increase the price above the promised 300$ ... in the end it cost € 730. I can handle price increases, but be straightforward to me. Especially when you just bought up a company.
• VIVE had Roomscale, the Rift (back then) not. I mainly play Elite, but I also wanted the full experience.
• VIVE has better tracking, that also does not active require cameras in my room. The tracking works perfect.
• Field of View: This is a tricky subject, since it is highly subjective - the VIVE has a bigger FoV than the Rift, which is good for immersion, since you see less black box at the edge of your view. OTOH the Rift has better pixel density, since the same pixels are distributed over a smaller area. I like a good peripheral vision, but in VR it is distorted by the lenses, so this point goes to the Rift.
• Controllers: Back then, 100% VIVE, the rift came with a (for me) worthless X-Box Controller, the VIVE had the great wands - not that they are supported in ED, so for ED this point is moot. The new controllers of the Rift look good, probably better than the wand, and the new grip (?) controllers for the VIVE are not out yet (and cost extra). So a point for the Rift now.
• Image Quality (apart from FoV): VIVE had darker black and no(less) color banding issues, Rift has less lensflares/bleeding. Apparently the DK2 had even less, due to other lenses, but those had their own problems.
• Drivers - at the beginning the Oculus Drivers were more mature, especially the asynchronous something made a huge difference for low powered systems like mine (GTX 970). The VIVE has cought up here now, IMO they are even now.
• Built in Speakers: The Vive has only earplugs, while the Rift has built in headphones. Since I use an extra Surround Sound Headset, I use neither. Still, point for the Rift, wearing 2 headsets is not very convenient
• Wired: being used to wireless headsets for quite a while it took me time to get used to being chained to the chair again. Looking forward to the wireless upgrade for the VIVE, the Rift is apparently working on a wireless version too, no idea if it will be possible to upgrade an existing Rift.
• Front Camera: Useful when you are in the game
• Exclusivity and Openness: Facebook tried to corner the market by making Oculus games incompatible with other VR-Headsets - Up to here I was at the fence, but this was a dealbreaker. I don't like "walled gardens", as Frank eloquently dubbed it.

TLDR: I still think the VIVE is the (slightly) better option, but with the current price drop I would probably go with the Rift at the moment. Even though the Camera and Walled Garden - issues weigh heavy. Apparently conscience can be bought

 

[problemchild]

I use a Rift to play Elite Dangerous and it's quite an experience. I actually think the game itself is quite drab but put on that VR headset, and it's transformed into the premier VR experience of the day.

My view is that the Touch controllers make the Rift experience the most immersive experience (generally speaking, as I use a gamepad for Elite Dangerous). I feel that the Vive controllers are not quite as slick, this is of course my subjective view.

I do not believe that the Rift suffers from endemic setup issues, but it is sensitive to the USB chip type. I have a brand new state of the art rig - MSI Gaming Pro Carbon X99 - and this caused issues, whereas my old Core i7 3770K rig did not. It turns out the Via USB chip that controls the rear ports on the X99 is not Rift compatible. I had to buy an add-on card - Inateck 5 port USB 3.0 using the Fresco chipset - to get around this. There is a tool downloadable from Oculus than can check for this issue before you purchase, but even if you have the issue, the PCIe card is only 20 quid odd, and one can never have too many USB ports.

In my view, the Rift at 399 quid is a total bargain. But beware, once you've played in VR, you are unlikely to settle for even the very best 4k monitor again!

 

[Falkenherz]

@Craith, excellent summary. Choice was clear in favour for the Vive back then, now almost half price for Oculus makes one reconsider.

For me, I still can´t trust Oculus as a company. They screwed up so much and broke so many promises and failed to expectations. The current price should have been there from start, and the software platform should have been all-open.

And one more point to the Vive, please: Raw Data. Best VR Shooter, Lightsword equivalent, and since a few days, also Archery game out there yet!

I am flying with Vive since almost a year now and the only things bothering me are non product related. It is the bad readability and also the space backdrop looks much less marvellous than on a monitor. And it is the controls, lots of hazzle there. This especially when you need to combine gameplay with third party websites, because Frontier is not able to provide comfortable information in-game.

 

[Alec Turner]

To the OP ... I can't really disagree with any of the comments for both headsets, as I've said before they're both great, it's a really good time to get into VR and I doubt you'll be disappointed whichever way you go. Do pop back in once you're up and running and let us know how you get on.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

@Craith, excellent summary. Choice was clear in favour for the Vive back then, now almost half price for Oculus makes one reconsider.

For me, I still can´t trust Oculus as a company. They screwed up so much and broke so many promises and failed to expectations. The current price should have been there from start, and the software platform should have been all-open.

And one more point to the Vive, please: Raw Data. Best VR Shooter, Lightsword equivalent, and since a few days, also Archery game out there yet!

I am flying with Vive since almost a year now and the only things bothering me are non product related. It is the bad readability and also the space backdrop looks much less marvellous than on a monitor. And it is the controls, lots of hazzle there. This especially when you need to combine gameplay with third party websites, because Frontier is not able to provide comfortable information in-game.

vive is a great product and there are no losers in this game if you own a vive or a rift, however i do feel the need to comment here (mind you i am a gobshi** and always stick my beak in )

oculus have made mistakes no doubt, but lets not hold valve on some pedestal here, they too have has a fair share of issues over the years and there was a time where if you complained too much about a broken game, they would threaten to close your entire steam library down. Also, oculus is only at fault for no official vive support if you believe what guys at valve say. According to oculus they dearly want to officially sell products to vive users but valve wont help them get the hardware officially supported on their store, and they cant officially support a hack.... hence revive is unofficial.

right now oculus/facebook are the company heavily investing in VR. they are the ones taking a risk. valve are doing what they always do, playing it safe and taking the money to the bank.... sure they have kicked in a bit, but Gabe himself has said, whilst on a personal view he thinks VR is cool, from a business sense he does not care if it succeeds or if it fails, its no loss to valve either way.

and as for the rift being over priced... its a bit rich owning a vive and complaining that oculus overcharge. vive wands £120 EACH, light house unit - £100, new head strap £100. VIVE full package is what.... £750?

also, raw data.. not played it yet but it IS on my oculus account...... much in the same way arizona sunshine is on oculus and steam, or pinball FX2, or superhot VR etc etc etc
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/986581138113138/

besides, i will take your raw data and raise you lone echo (which works on revive too btw )

 

[Falkenherz]

Yeah, well, I supose both companies are not really cooperative with each other, which is a shame. I don´t want to do a blaming game who was mean towards whom.

As for the price, at that time, Vive was at 750$, but it had two controllers and full roomscale tracking included. The Oculus was at 650$, without controllers and without roomscale tracking. The choice was very clear. Not so now anymore, but as Craith summarized, the Vive might still have more points on its side, if the pricing is not prohibitive for you.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Fallout 4 will be on the Vive only initially. .

Nobody knows this.... The game is said to be SteamVR compatible, the Rift is supported by SteamVR. The Rift could very well work from day 1.

And one more point to the Vive, please: Raw Data. Best VR Shooter, Lightsword equivalent, and since a few days, also Archery game out there yet!

Which is also available on the Oculus Home store for the Rift...

 

[Alec Turner]

On the subject of playing Oculus games on Vive (including Robo Recall and Lone Echo) a timely article from the excellent RoadToVR site (and I'd highly recommend subscribing to their newsletter).

https://www.roadtovr.com/10-games-vive-owners-need-play-revive/

 

[rootsrat]

@OP - watch a video I have linked in here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...te-Dangerous?p=5757786&viewfull=1#post5757786

Very objective comparison of both as they currently stand.

Personal opinion:

1) If you're buying for ED only - get the Rift. It has a slightly better screen quality. I guarantee you won't end up playing ED only, as VR is so awesome, you WILL want to play other games in it.
2) If you will be playing more seated games (racing, flight sim) - get the Rift. See above.
3) If you will be playing more "walk around" games - get the Vive.

 

[CylonSurfer]

3) If you will be playing more "walk around" games - get the Vive.

I'll be honest, I stuggle to find anything of any note in Steams VR section - any recommendations? I already own Pavolv and Onward for my Rift. Also a few others such Golf Club VR and New Retro Arcade. I always struggle to filter out the mountains of shovelware type wave shooters and loose interest.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'll be honest, I stuggle to find anything of any note in Steams VR section - any recommendations? I already own Pavolv and Onward for my Rift. Also a few others such Golf Club VR and New Retro Arcade. I always struggle to filter out the mountains of shovelware type wave shooters and loose interest.

eleven table tennis
thrill of the fight

both of them are well worth the coin,

redout is one i will get next sale (its 33% off this week but it was 60% off not long back)
hover junkers is meant to be good.

also some games are on oculus store but still may be better to buy on steam for multiplayer reasons (pCARS and Sportsbar VR for instance)

 

[Alec Turner]

I'll be honest, I stuggle to find anything of any note in Steams VR section - any recommendations? I already own Pavolv and Onward for my Rift. Also a few others such Golf Club VR and New Retro Arcade. I always struggle to filter out the mountains of shovelware type wave shooters and loose interest.

Valve's original VR showcase "The Lab" is still terrific. Outside of SteamVR, the standing Oculus Touch experiences I can throughly recommend are Robo Recall (of course), The Climb, SuperHot, Tilt Brush and I've just this weekend had a go at Echo Arena and, judging by the quality of this multiplayer freebie (and also from the reviews I've read) I think Lone Echo is probably brilliant (but I haven't bought it yet).

Oh and also, everyone needs to try Google Earth VR. It's not strictly a standing/room-scale experience but it is absolutely stunning!

 

[TorTorden_VR]

@OP - watch a video I have linked in here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...te-Dangerous?p=5757786&viewfull=1#post5757786

Very objective comparison of both as they currently stand.

Personal opinion:

1) If you're buying for ED only - get the Rift. It has a slightly better screen quality. I guarantee you won't end up playing ED only, as VR is so awesome, you WILL want to play other games in it.
2) If you will be playing more seated games (racing, flight sim) - get the Rift. See above.
3) If you will be playing more "walk around" games - get the Vive.

But also, number 3: is really only a concern if you have the available space.
And to have enough space that Vive tracking outperforms the rift would require at least 3mx3m.
I don't have a large bedroom spare with no furniture for VR....

even adding the cost of a third camera and a few extensions for the rift.
The vive is still WAAAAAY more expensive now, by at least £300.
The audio strap is sold seperate, that's another £100.
Wireless would be at least another £200.
And the touch controllers are better devices than the wands, except for a few titles on steamvr that are completely developed for them.

The knuckles that should come out this year, well I would be very surprised those aren't going to be at least another £2-300 for a set.

Facebook vs valve&htc, well that's a dumb discussion, they are basically pick your evil corp contest.
Valve's is doing everything Facebook is, and being jerks about it to boot.
HTC, like any electronics device manufacturer, neck deep in exploited work environments, child labour cases etc etc.
Your vive might quite possibly still be packaged by a 12 year old being paid $1 for a months work.

 

[Gunner Deckard]

If you can push super sampling with say a 1080 Ti your in for a treat on either headset. Rift best price hands down right now for Elite only. If you want to have a more flexibility in VR gaming and don't mind spending the case get a Vive you cant go wrong.

In my Opinion you need decent super sampeling to really enjoy Elite VR.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

In my Opinion you need decent super sampeling to really enjoy Elite VR.

wow its nice if you have the gear to allow that, that is for sure but... (and i feel like one of those old fellers shaking their walking stick saying "in my day we got a satsuma for Christmas and were happy")


but i started my vr experience in a DK2 with GTX 670....... imo no way do you NEED such fantastic hardware to appreciate ED in VR.

 

[rootsrat]

I'll be honest, I stuggle to find anything of any note in Steams VR section - any recommendations? I already own Pavolv and Onward for my Rift. Also a few others such Golf Club VR and New Retro Arcade. I always struggle to filter out the mountains of shovelware type wave shooters and loose interest.

I can recommend:

Castle Must be Mine - http://store.steampowered.com/app/542770/Castle_Must_Be_Mine/ - AMAZING tower defence type of game. Really, I didn't think it'd be so much fun. While I don't usually get early access games, this one is already fully playable, all they do now is add more levels. Can't recommend this enough.
Cloudlands Minigolf - http://store.steampowered.com/app/425720/Cloudlands__VR_Minigolf/ - not much to say - mini golf, lots of fun!
Cowbots and Aliens - http://store.steampowered.com/app/517670/Cowbots_and_Aliens/ - comic-style multiplayer shooter. Funny and entertaning. Grab any item and throw it at your opponent, hide behind tables, barrels, window shutters (as in physically crouch or lean). Lots of fun!
Holo Ball - http://store.steampowered.com/app/457320/HoloBall/ - basically, single player Pong in VR. I treat this as my daily workout, it can get you VERY sweaty and the AI snarky remarks makes you want to kick his bottom
Pinball FX2 - http://store.steampowered.com/app/547590/Pinball_FX2_VR/- very well made game. Technically you can play it seated, but have you ever seen seated pinball?
Sairento VR - http://store.steampowered.com/app/555880/Sairento_VR/ - Another Early Acccess I've invested in and didn't regret it one bit. You're basically a cyber-ninja. Use guns and katanas, jump in slow-mo, decimating your enemies from the air... Intense and fun!

Now the below are more "experiences", but still fun!

Allumette - http://store.steampowered.com/app/460850/Allumette/ - An interpretation of H.C. Andersen's fairy tale "The Little Match Girl". Beautiful animated movie that shows you what you can achieve in VR with right filming techniques. Love it! The kids will love it too!
The VR museum of fine art - http://store.steampowered.com/app/515020/The_VR_Museum_of_Fine_Art/ - I love art - and this allowed me to see Mona Lisa up close Love it!
A night cafe - http://store.steampowered.com/app/482390/The_Night_Cafe_A_VR_Tribute_to_Vincent_Van_Gogh/ - tribute to Van Gogh
Destinations VR - https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/02/03/destinations-vr-review/ - I don't really care about that one, but it has one AWESOME feature - a bit of virtual Mars, composed entirely of the photos sent by the Curiosity rover. This had my jaw on the floor. I was stood in my living room, thinking to my self, "Man, I am in my living room, but I am on MARS. On a different PLANET and it's REAL!". Seriously. Get it just for that short experience. What a time to be alive!

 

[CylonSurfer]

@MadMike / Alec,

I'm curious as to what these "walk around" games are that Rootsrat believes makes the Vive a better choice if you are into them. I love the room scale stuff but cannot find anything on Steam of that nature that is either not available on Oculus Home or doesn't work for the Rift if purchased from Steam.