Jump range - is it really that important for exploration?

[dognosh]

I timed how long it took to accelerate from rest (30km/s) next to a star to 25c and then back down to 30km/s again. I tried it with a mostly A-rated Asp, a stripped down Asp and a stripped down Anaconda. They all took 56.7 (+/- 0.1) seconds to accelerate to 25c and 13.0 (+/- 0.1) seconds to decelerate to 30km/s.

I also timed how long it took to do a full 360 degree vertical turn whilst at 30km/s. Both of the two variations of the Asp took 22.6 seconds whilst the Anaconda took a whopping 48.4.

My preliminary conclusions are that acceleration and deceleration are independent of the type of ship and that turning speed depends on the ship type, not the modules fitted. That's what we had expected but it's good to have at least a little evidence to back up our thoughts

Can you try turning at 50% throttle ? (fastest turns are at 50%) Was thinking that it might make a difference at max turn rate? (or not )

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Yup, pretty much.

Having a bigger scoop and longer jump range mans you can potentially do more, it doesn't mean you have to.

If you have a smaller scoop, or shorter jump range, well, you can't go beyond those limits, can you?

In other words, it's better to over estimate, and not need the extra, than under estimate, and not be able to go that extra Ly.

Z...

The importance of jump range, total range and scoop time is also all about survival.

The faster your scoop, the lower your exposure time to the system's sun's heat, and so the smaller your chance of taking damage accidentally. If your total jump range, through fuel tank size and jump range, is also ideally suited to your fuel economy, then you don't have to scoop that often either, and only scoop when you need to, which may save your life if you are passing through a doldrum-like region of space.

There is also a very specific benefit. It is also of benefit in the case of passing through systems occupied by, for sake of argument, "enemy forces." The less time you spend in supercruise in these systems, either by scooping quickly or not at all, the smaller the chance you have of being noticed, and therefore approached, interdicted and attacked, by the enemy.

 

[B33 ENN]

- The first one is a tourist (or racer), who picks a destination and sprints towards it as fast and possible, scanning the sweetest spots on the way. The goal of a tourist is to visit as many interesting places as possible. However, "Insteresting" doesn't mean "profitable". In fact, you usually find that almost every "landmark" had been scanned before you, so you don't get your 50% extras...

...What do you think?

What I think is that your definition of "tourist" and "racer" are flawed, and sound a little patronising when compared to the other term, "surveyor" you used for the other category.

I'm no big explorer, mostly a rares trader, salvage scavenger and bounty hunter. However, even I can respect that there are many levels of exploration, or types of explorer, just as there are different kinds of combat pilots and merchants.

I think "pioneer" would be a closer term for what you are describing as a racer; someone who wants to be recorded as the first to explore a new frontier. And I think the term "discoverer" would be more apt for what you are describing as a "tourist"; someone that looks to seek out a things of value meeting a specific criteria.

 

[domaq]

I timed how long it took to accelerate from rest (30km/s) next to a star to 25c and then back down to 30km/s again. I tried it with a mostly A-rated Asp, a stripped down Asp and a stripped down Anaconda. They all took 56.7 (+/- 0.1) seconds to accelerate to 25c and 13.0 (+/- 0.1) seconds to decelerate to 30km/s.

I also timed how long it took to do a full 360 degree vertical turn whilst at 30km/s. Both of the two variations of the Asp took 22.6 seconds whilst the Anaconda took a whopping 48.4.

My preliminary conclusions are that acceleration and deceleration are independent of the type of ship and that turning speed depends on the ship type, not the modules fitted. That's what we had expected but it's good to have at least a little evidence to back up our thoughts

Did your A-rated Asp have A-rated thrusters? I definitely noticed a difference between A and D rated in my Asp at 50% speed. But I think it will only make a difference in the long term to a surveyor and only be cost-effective in the very, very long term...like diesel vs. petrol.

 

[Allitnil]

Yes, A rated thrusters (5A) compared to 4D for the stripped down version.

I have just done some timings for turning at different throttle settings. I hadn't realised that 50% was the fastest for turn speed and just assumed it would be 75% (middle of blue zone) so thanks for that tip!

Asp (A rated)
0% - 22.6s
25% - 15.8s
50% - 12.6s
75% - 13.5s
100% - 14.0s

Anaconda (stripped down)
0% - 48.4s
25% - 33.8s
50% - 25.0s
75% - 30.4s
100% - forgot to do this one

I've now got a button bound to 50% throttle

 

[Zeeman]

Yes, A rated thrusters (5A) compared to 4D for the stripped down version.

I have just done some timings for turning at different throttle settings. I hadn't realised that 50% was the fastest for turn speed and just assumed it would be 75% (middle of blue zone) so thanks for that tip!

Asp (A rated)
0% - 22.6s
25% - 15.8s
50% - 12.6s
75% - 13.5s
100% - 14.0s

Anaconda (stripped down)
0% - 48.4s
25% - 33.8s
50% - 25.0s
75% - 30.4s
100% - forgot to do this one

I've now got a button bound to 50% throttle

Is this for supercruise? I'm not convinced thrusters make a lick of difference in supercruise...

However, on anothe rnote, are you also sure that the turn rate is affected by throttle position, and not the speed? Plenty of times my Asp has felt like it had Vulture-like agility in SC, but that always seems to be when I'm near some sort of stellar body that has gravity to slow me down, and my throttle is usually fully pegged getting ready to jump. I've notice dI am slower to turn when flying faster out in open space.

Supercruise being supercruise, 50% throttle can have a wide variation in actual SC speed, depending on what is nearby..

Z...

 

[drhay53]

Speed absolutely DOES matter for turn speed in supercruise.

Also, it is speed that matters, not throttle position.

If your speed is in the blue region, you will turn faster, even in SC.

 

[puca]

This entire racer/scanner dichotomy is silly. A good explorer ship should be flexible and adaptable to multiple things you might want to do.

Sometimes you might want to scan a lot -- so a good explorer ship should turn well in supercruise.

Sometimes you might want to quickly travel to a particular point of interest -- so a good explorer ship should scoop quickly.

Sometimes you want to reach a hard to get to system -- so a good explorer ship should have good jump range.

On my long trips into the black I want to do all of the above, so I take the asp. It's same for any other profession. Combat pilots want jump range, AND maneuverability, AND firepower, AND defenses. Traders want cargo, AND jump range, AND speed.

 

[iain666]

A good explorer ship should ...

Do what you need it to, when you need it to do it.

 

[Surly_Badger]

I like to get into/out of human space faster.

 

[Gelegeus]

I like to get into/out of human space faster.

I've been in human space for 3 hours now (mainly selling data) and hating it.

I'm an Explorer, get me out of here.

 

[b0rg9]

I've been in human space for 3 hours now (mainly selling data) and hating it.

I'm an Explorer, get me out of here.

Aw man I have to agree. I'm trying to force myself to learn new things and enjoy the other facets of the game, but I find myself avoiding it like homework.

Plunking around trying to shoot things thinking, "I could be xxKlys out of here by now".

Read this excellent post today on mining so I may have a go at that. Otherwise, civ space sort of bums me out.

 

[Glenn Ross]

Going by the OP, I would generally consider myself a Surveyor. By far and away the most exploration I have done so far has been scanning everything in a system, then moving on to the next. I still have an A rated FSD though, due to wanting to get back, hand in data, and get out there again as quickly as possible. It also means I don't need to muck around changing loadout much when I want to go for the BBR A*.

Much prefer exploration to anything else ingame, but do have to force myself to trade to make the money for upgrades and such - 28 mil for a fuel scoop for example. I fully intend my exploration rank to reach Elite first, followed by trading. My combat rank is pegged at 0% Harmless, and that's where it's going to stay for a good long while.

 

[matemaster]

I did my first exploration trip in cobra, then I bought ASP and the increased jump range and much bigger fuel scoop will get you to interesting places much faster
Its not necessary but more convenient.

 

[Zeeman]

Speed absolutely DOES matter for turn speed in supercruise.

Also, it is speed that matters, not throttle position.

If your speed is in the blue region, you will turn faster, even in SC.

This is what I was getting at - it's your speed, not the throttle position in SC - seeing as throttle position could mean a very large speed variation (full throttle can be anything from a few 0.12c to 2000c...

Z...

 

[Allitnil]

Is this for supercruise? I'm not convinced thrusters make a lick of difference in supercruise...

Yes, SC. That's what I think most of us thought, but I wanted to actually test it.

However, on anothe rnote, are you also sure that the turn rate is affected by throttle position, and not the speed? Plenty of times my Asp has felt like it had Vulture-like agility in SC, but that always seems to be when I'm near some sort of stellar body that has gravity to slow me down, and my throttle is usually fully pegged getting ready to jump. I've notice dI am slower to turn when flying faster out in open space.

Supercruise being supercruise, 50% throttle can have a wide variation in actual SC speed, depending on what is nearby..

I need to go back and do some more testing using the same system as before. I have just tried doing some testing based on speed but the results appear inconsistent. That might be due to being in another system at present or it might just be because it's harder to create the same starting conditions when travelling at speed. But preliminary results clearly indicate that throttle position is more important than speed and I've not noticed any circumstances where 50% throttle is slower than 0%, 25%, 75% or 100%.

Speed absolutely DOES matter for turn speed in supercruise.

Also, it is speed that matters, not throttle position.

If your speed is in the blue region, you will turn faster, even in SC.

The blue region moves on the scale depending on your speed but it is always centred around the 75% throttle position. My testing shows that you consistently turn faster in SC at 50% throttle which is just below the blue region.

 

[Axel R]

There are many ways to explore and all of them are valid. Saying "range" or "scooping speed" is unimportant to your narrow playstyle is as obnoxious as the people who brag about taking down an elite anaconda in a sidewinder.

I totally respect all play styles and never said they are not valid.
I agree, though, that my style is very narrow, but I am glad to learn from other posts in this thread.

Editing your OP as I just did, it almost come across as trying to troll in this thread! LOL....I know you are not, but seriously, you asked the question and gave the best answer to yourself all at the same time.

I didn't mean "trolling", but I indeed had an answer in my head when I was writing my OP. Because of playing only one way, I had this tunnel visioned thinking, which possibly made my post sound provokative.

I want to thank all people for sharing their exploration strategies.

Simple calculation:

Lets say you compare 35Ly jump to 25Ly on a trip to sag with around 25k Ly

714 Jumps with 35Ly (if perfect)
+286 Jumps with lower range

Now, let's say you earn 25k Cr per system on average (for example). So with 35Ly you get 17.85M Cr, and the lower range will give you +7.15M extra

You see, this calculation can be turned over depending on what is your optimisation criteria. That's why I started this "play style" differentiation. Unfortunately, people took it the wrong way.

On the other hand, if you choose between two ships that have identical characteristics apart from one having a larger jump range, it is obvious that longer jump is more preferable in this case, because it's like an extra bonus. The trick is that other characteristics are usually different, so it would still be helpful to learn them.

I bought the skin pack for the Python, even though I'm still a week out. Gives me something to look forward to.

When I get back I'm going to equip it as an explorer (no 10% penalty ) and pose in front of many things. It is after all the prettiest ship in Elite at the moment.
If it's range exceeds 20 Ly, I'm golden.

I want to buy Python too. That was the reason for my concerns about the jump range in the first place. But I also have a bad habit of outfitting my ship for all purposes, which includes heavy armament and shielding (I assume rotten tomatoes are already flying my way...), big cargo space. I know this is stupid and inefficient, but I like my ship to be a "jack of all trades" So even with 5A FSD, my Asp got only 25Ly range. For Python this could be a real issue.

<...>
Actual speed up & slow down is, I think, fairly constant across ships. It's a function of the FSD technology and determined by the strength of the gravity well you are in. But I've never tried measuring this across different ships so it could vary. But it's nowhere near as obvious a differentiator as rate of turn!

Thank you for your research!
The acceleration/deceleration measurement is tricky due to gravity interference. I am afraid you can't just measure it directly.

From my own experience, I noticed that there is some sort of a breaking point in time-to-destination in SC. If you reach it, you will overshoot, and it would feel like being "dragged". It seems to be constant for a ship if the distance to destination is large enough (>0.1Ly). For my Asp it is 5s. When I switched to Type-7 for trading, I noticed that I need to start deceleration before 6s. The difference is actually small, so it might be irrelevant when choosing a ship.

But don't forget heat management.

That's super-important indeed!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

OP - i think jump range is usually the first thing mentioned because usually its someone new to exploration that is asking the question. For a new explorer jump range and fuel scoop speed are the two biggest things you want to focus on when starting.

However, as a veteran explorer (although one who so far has avoided the core run), exploring since gamma, I like to try out different things while exploring. I'm almost 2000LY from Lembava now, on my way back from a trip that took me 7000LY out in an Orca with an 18.5LY max jump range. Been out for a month and half... I would have made it longer, but decided to start heading back when PP was released, because i want to get involved in that.

So jump range isn't 100% critical... as long as you are prepared for slow journeys. Once you get a couple of thousand LY out, you can slow down and pick your systems. I was finding earthlikes in about 1 in 20-30 systems, water worlds in about 1 in 10. Ammonia worlds in about 1 in 10-20 as well. Pick your systems, you can find interesting stuff. Just rush around, and you'll end up flying through boring M class systems most of the time.

 

[Grimnir9]

Aw man I have to agree. I'm trying to force myself to learn new things and enjoy the other facets of the game, but I find myself avoiding it like homework.

Plunking around trying to shoot things thinking, "I could be xxKlys out of here by now".

Read this excellent post today on mining so I may have a go at that. Otherwise, civ space sort of bums me out.

I've felt the same way. I jumped into combat early on when I first got the game so that I could p purchase an explorer. I had an Asp, and was doing some local exploration (100 to 200 ly out) but needed more credits to grab the fsd I need for longer jumps. I sold the Asp for the diamondback and had enough to cover all the equipment I need for a deep space expedition and the insurance to replace my ship. I'm 800 ly. From my starting point, and I'm not looking back! This is where I belong.

 

[znôrt]

It is after all the prettiest ship in Elite at the moment.

the eagle is the prettiest ship in elite. this is not an opinion, but an observable fact. just look at it!

(python doesn't look like a ship at all, it's just a big, fat, oblong lump. much like a turd, actually)