Ships Jump range

[Kyokushin]

FDL is bounty hunter ship. Bounty hunting means a track, follow and destroy a target, in a fast precisious strike. I think this ship should have a better jump range. At now we can get 12 ly on heavy combat version and 13-14 on light (without armour). Even Viper and Vulture have better range, and both of them are fighters - they operate from base in a short radius. FDL (as we talk about bounty hunting/assasination, not camping on res/beacon) is not operating in a short radius, it should have a possibility to make a one or two, but long jumps.

I am exploring in FDL right now (2/3 way to sagittarius A*), however if we get in 1.3 assassination mission, jump may be not enough to deal a fast precisious strike, because FDL is not able to follow any other in hyperspace.

What do You think about that?

Maybe military drives or range extenders will help. Small fuel tank is not a problem, bigger one will make things worse because of mass.

 

[Arubeto]

FDL is bounty hunter ship. Bounty hunting means a track, follow and destroy a target, in a fast precisious strike. I think this ship should have a better jump range. At now we can get 12 ly on heavy combat version and 13-14 on light (without armour). Even Viper and Vulture have better range, and both of them are fighters - they operate from base in a short radius. FDL (as we talk about bounty hunting/assasination, not camping on res/beacon) is not operating in a short radius, it should have a possibility to make a one or two, but long jumps.

I am exploring in FDL right now (2/3 way to sagittarius A*), however if we get in 1.3 assassination mission, jump may be not enough to deal a fast precisious strike, because FDL is not able to follow any other in hyperspace.

What do You think about that?

Maybe military drives or range extenders will help. Small fuel tank is not a problem, bigger one will make things worse because of mass.

Hm, aren't you refuting your own argument by successfully using the FDL for exploration right now? I mean, clearly if you manage to reach the center of the galaxy with the ship, it will also suffice to bring you around the near neighborhood. (I know that star systems are closer to each other near the center, but you got there somehow to begin with, so it can't be all that bad)
I do see your point about ships with larger jump range getting away, but that's a valid escape strategy against some overpowered luxury fighter, IMHO.

I am a strong supporter of leaving at least some disadvantages/trade-offs in every ship, otherwise everyone would aim for the same goal. The Vulture has power issues, the FDL has limited jump range. 12-14ly is not much, but it is enough to patrol some local hunting ground systems.

 

[Kyokushin]

The point is it will not change this ship disadvantage. With +2 or 3 ly more this ship still will be not good for exploration (i am doing it for fun), however it is not logic at now, where fighters like Viper or Vulture have larger jump than dedicated bounty hunter, not 'station based' ship.

This is not a ship for patrol as you wrote - this is role of Vulture. FDL role is bounty hunting - fast (long range) jump with punch at end. Without big fuel tank and cargo space. Everything is fine in that ship (cons like power problems, low cargo space), except jump range.

... and FDL have the same power problems as Vulture. And this ship is 10 times more expensive. Luxury bounty hunters do not want to waste time or rewards because of low range jump.

Escaping from luxury fighter is not good argument, because game mechanics allows to escape in almost every ship and situation
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=130815

 

[Rudolphus]

You could have a better jump distance with this setup for exploration 19ly jumps
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60O,,2-6Q8S6Q6u6Q6u5A,mpT7Q44zM2jw2UI

 

[Kyokushin]

4 ly doesnt change anything except fact of flying unarmed, not capable to escape, and harmless, made from paper ship
Fully armed exploration ASP is 30 ly, Armed and fast IMperial CLipper is about 20-22 ly, similar to Python, Cobra and almost every other ship.

I do not want FDL to exploration. This ship is not designed for this. Other ships have this role. I am trying to tell that current range should be a bit higher (arguments above)

 

[Rudolphus]

Mine reaction is when you had take time to outfit it better for your exploration trip and use mine setup you had a better jump range and fast enough to run away from encounters coming home then you have outfitted yourself now.
you contradict yourself while you now are exploring with a 14 LY Jump range,
But enjoy your ship ;-)

 

[Cmdr Basskicker]

IMO, the FDL could stand to have upgraded FSD. 80 million for a ship that can't even jump 15ly (with a combat loadout) is kinda crazy. FDev could upgrade the FSD without making the ship even more powerful because the ship still has a very limited fuel tank.

The thing that gets me is that multi purpose ships outperform combat rated ships when they are A rated. The only advantages to flying the FDL over a Clipper or Python are it's shield strength and speed (speed in the case of the python). Hard point placement has its drawbacks on each ship.The sheer amount of internal compartments makes each of those ships superior to the FDL since that allows them to carry numerous shield cells and other equipment needed for prolonged combat.

Ps: I get the feeling the OP isn't interested in having a discussion about how if you strip this and that you can get 19lys out of your pure combat ship. He is probably more interested in discussing why the FDL has such a low class FSD for a ship that is intended to be the best bounty hunting ship.

 

[puca]

"The thing that gets me is that multi purpose ships outperform combat rated ships when they are A rated."

People say this, and I don't think it's true (at the same price point). The viper is a better combat ship than a cobra though it is cheaper, the vulture is a better combat ship than the asp by a country mile, and I am fairly sure given even skill the FDL trumps the python too, slightly, and cheaper to kit.

---

I agree that the FDL should have the jump range roughly compatible to the vulture (16-17 ly). 13 ly in a full combat loadout is just punishingly awful, that's as bad as a fully loaded type 9. The problem with moving the FDL to a class 5 FSD is it will then have a better jump range than the asp (which has a class 5 FSD and is heavier than the FDL). The FDL is in that awkward position where it's too heavy for a class 4 FSD, and too light for a class 5 FSD. FDL carries overcharged (and thus heavy) components for its hull mass, e.g. a class 6 distributor. This makes it a great combat performer, but tanks the jump range.

I am not sure what the solution is, maybe military drives (can't use scoop fuel, but lighter and bigger range)?

 

[Kyokushin]

Mine reaction is when you had take time to outfit it better for your exploration trip and use mine setup you had a better jump range and fast enough to run away from encounters coming home then you have outfitted yourself now.
you contradict yourself while you now are exploring with a 14 LY Jump range,
But enjoy your ship ;-)

Sure. I am contradict myself because i have done a thing who do not do before me.... I was in Sag A for fun and joke, because range of FDL completely do not fit for exploration and travelling at all
Are people who riding around the world at bicycle contradict theirselves too? Not. everybody know a bike is not constructed for riding around the world same as a FDL is not constructed for Explo.

80mln bounty hunter, dedicated luxury ship should have around 16-18 jump range on combat ladout. More than cheap, small, operating from base, fighters like vulture, viper, eagle.
This ship should be poor for exploration, but should NOT be the worst range ship in game.

And this ship is an Elite icon, like a cobra or Imperial Courier.

Ps: I get the feeling the OP isn't interested in having a discussion about how if you strip this and that you can get 19lys out of your pure combat ship. He is probably more interested in discussing why the FDL has such a low class FSD for a ship that is intended to be the best bounty hunting ship.

Exactly this is the point mate.
Ship in bounty hunter role in operational (combat) ladout should have a bit better range.

Fuel tank is OK. 8t is enough for this ship, but it should be able to get one or two higher range jumps in follow by his victim.

 

[Cmdr Basskicker]

"
--snip--

I agree that the FDL should have the jump range roughly compatible to the vulture (16-17 ly). 13 ly in a full combat loadout is just punishingly awful, that's as bad as a fully loaded type 9. The problem with moving the FDL to a class 5 FSD is it will then have a better jump range than the asp (which has a class 5 FSD and is heavier than the FDL). The FDL is in that awkward position where it's too heavy for a class 4 FSD, and too light for a class 5 FSD. FDL carries overcharged (and thus heavy) components for its hull mass, e.g. a class 6 distributor. This makes it a great combat performer, but tanks the jump range.

I am not sure what the solution is, maybe military drives (can't use scoop fuel, but lighter and bigger range)?

Wall of text slightly off topic incoming:

The Viper doesn't necessarily make for a better combat ship compared to the Cobra. It's shields are superior yes, but just like with all of the combat ships its loadout is dictated by the power capacity. The Cobra on the other hand has the same amount of power capacity as the Vulture. Yet the Vulture costs 15 times as much to buy stock. That gives the Cobra the edge in combat, IMO, just based on the fact it has more options when it comes to weapons and internal modules. IE: can support plasma acc or rail guns, as well as more room for shield cells. The Cobra is also double the cost to kit out however so the comparison is kind of moot.

I agree that the Vulture whoops Asp when it comes to combat, but the Asp isn't what I would call a true multi-role ship (Well, actually, it may be the only true multi-role ship in the game if you are not going by the other "multi-role" ships in the game) It's more of an explorer/miner that is capable (to a point) of defending itself while carrying out these other roles. IMO, both ships are in a good spot when it comes to each being able to perform it's duty. With the exception that the Vulture's shields may be a tad OP, while the Asp's may be a tad underwhelming.

The FDL vs Python is a fight that I would love to see performed by better pilots than myself. Both ships, at similar price points, pack one hell of a punch. The difference is the Python can be taken to the nth degree when it comes to outfitting while the FDL tops out fairly quickly (and cheaply). With the biggest disadvantage, as far as the FDL goes, being it's jump range and internal module capacity.

End wall of text and back on topic now:

The best way to balance the FDL's jump range while making it not as crazy as the Asp's (and to make it not suck) is to up it's base tonnage enough to compensate for the added oomph of a C5 FSD. You would also have to balance this with it's speed so a boost to the thrusters may also be necessary. Then again boosting the thrusters to C6 would also throw off the power balance. So something would have to be done about that as well.

 

[Quinliven]

The FDL vs Python is a fight that I would love to see performed by better pilots than myself. Both ships, at similar price points, pack one hell of a punch. The difference is the Python can be taken to the nth degree when it comes to outfitting while the FDL tops out fairly quickly (and cheaply). With the biggest disadvantage, as far as the FDL goes, being it's jump range and internal module capacity.

In terms of going one-on-one, I'd put my money on the FdL. You can tank it with better shields and its maneoverability advantage should keep it out of the Python's aim quite easily. Even if the Python uses turrets, the FdL would then outclass it in forward-firing firepower. Once shields are down, Pythons go down fast when targeting their powerplant. 4 medium gimballed pulses on the FdL will kill the PP quick enough. Stick a huge cannon or PA on there too and a good pilot will massacre the Python.
.
On the off-chance the Python gains the upper hand, the FdL can shoot away so fast that the Python stands zero chance of catching up. Simply put, a FdL would only die to a Python if the FdL is piloted by a moron. Yes, it might have to bug out at worst, but it should completely dictate the engagement.
.
EDIT: should add that a good Python pilot could also be a bit tanky by using shield cells. But I'd still think a good FdL pilot would bring his shields down quicker than the shield cells would be of use. IMO, of course.

 

[Ajaxx84]

The problem isn't with the FDL it is with it's pilot.

Why you think you need a good jump drive to be a good bounty hunter is beyond me unless you need to spend more time practicing in resource extraction sites.

1) FDL is one of fastest ships in the game. Once you interdict someone they should not be able to get away from you.
2) FDL Mass locks all ships except the Anaconda (which if an Anaconda jumps you aren't following it through it's 30+Ly jumps even with a significant boost to the FDL FSD) Use your great speed and keep them mass locked.
3) Don't target the power plant, target the drives. They are fully exposed and go down 4x faster then the power plant. Once down they can't jump without a reboot and repair which takes time. Once disabled smash the power plant.
4) If the target is a Sidewinder, Eagle, Viper, Cobra, Hauler or Adder they will probably die in 3-4 shots anyways so you'll kill them before the drives are dead. Although not sure why you would waste your time on one of these flys unless just griefing.
5) Remember to toggle flight assist on and off for maximum mobility to stay on their tail end to expedite drive smashing.

If your target is not an Anaconda and manages to jump remember PICNIC. Problem in chair, not in computer.

 

[Kyokushin]

The problem isn't with the FDL it is with it's pilot.
.

The problem is in understanding of Bounty Hunter term.

Why you think you need a good jump drive to be a good bounty hunter is beyond me unless you need to spend more time practicing in resource extraction sites.

Because patrolling RES and Nav is not a bounty hunting. This is patrolling job for base operating in small radius ships. At now there is not a true Bounty hunter missions in ED (maybe we will see them in 1.3), there are only patrolling missions and this is role of ships like a Viper or Vulture.


I explained that in my first post.

FDL is bounty hunter ship. Bounty hunting means a track, follow and destroy a target, in a fast precisious strike.

For example, You taking an assasination contract or you are hunting for a specific criminal. You are waiting in target location, waiting for his jump, analysing cloud and... you need to have a jump range because your target in 90% will not be another FDL, but every other ship with better range.
Thats why you need to have a possibility to take one or two long jumps. And thats why you do not need a big fuel tank.

I made this kind of activity not for an NPC, but other CMDR's.

 

[Shanaeri]

Jump range has zero bearing on combat performance, only the speed in which one can get from system A to B, so therefore using a low jump range to balance combat performance is pretty ineffective

 

[Starender]

completely agree with OP, it's exactly what i said during the beta test first time we got our hands on it, it can't be a "bounty hunter" because it can't search/follow around the galaxy, it can't even move really.

it should be renamed as a "low range heavy fighter", but it's not that bad now we got other ships to choose instead (and more to come), the FdL was just a big useless hype for me, not that i don't find it beautiful tho and great for fight, it's just that for that much money/reputation/expectation, i think it's a bad investment

personal opinion of course

 

[Zephyriel]

I agree with you OP, however people have already brought up this issue and it seems FD want to keep the ship the way it is now. A bounty hunter really needs to be able to follow its target when it jumps away, so it should have a pretty high jump range, which should be balanced by having a small fuel tank so as not to make it overpowered for exploration.

 

[Starender]

I agree with you OP, however people have already brought up this issue and it seems FD want to keep the ship the way it is now. A bounty hunter really needs to be able to follow its target when it jumps away, so it should have a pretty high jump range, which should be balanced by having a small fuel tank so as not to make it overpowered for exploration.

that seems balanced to me, but i highly doubt that FD will make it happen.

 

[puca]

Not really balanced, because you will be able to add more fuel tanks in 1.3. I do agree the FDL jump range needs to be in the 16-18 range, fully kitted for combat.