jUSt PLaY tHe GaMe and You'LL get MaTS!11

[Alone Wulff]

All I read from the OP's post is "Man, this game just isn't for me", which is perfectly fine btw. It's a game you can play casually but unfortunately you'll never get the most out of the game with just a few hours play a week. Without the grind it wouldn't be Eliteangerous.

Who said the FDL is best for combat and who said how much it MUST cost to make combat ready?? The Phantom fully outfitted to suit me cost 142m, but might cost someone who MUST have Reactive armour and other subjective modules close to 300m. An FDL built to suit me would only cost me 88m, but I've had one and disliked it very much. Before the Alliance ships came along, and then CZs changed, I was perfectly happy with my 25m Vulture and I could sit in a CZ until I needed fuel.

 

[m0rl0ck]

That's not a happy medium.

The only positive thing about Engineering, from my perspective, is that the system to gain mods has at least a modicum of scarcity behind it.

It may not be medium but its certainly happy. Engineering is the single reason i havent spent more money in the frontier store and will be the deciding factor in whether or not i buy more of their software.
The jurassic park thing looks interesting for instance, the main thing that stops me from buying it is that its from the same people who think engineering is fun.

If i could buy engineering upgrades with in game credits or if engineering didnt exist or were rolled back, ED would be the perfect game. imo

 

[Alone Wulff]

Semi-truth:

A Rated vulture against any engineered ship, is going to lose.

... which we all know is a minigame with no other outcome than wanting to bang your head of the nearest lamp-post.

Some of us enjoy mat gathering as part of the game, it's not exactly hard, you just need to include time to do it as part of the engineering process.

So that leaves him in a high-res, with an ARated vulture against a wing of an Elite Anaconda and 2 gunships.

So what? Any sensible lone Vulture pilot wouldn't start that fight on their own, but in a High-Res there'll be cops to initiate. Enemy NPCs focus their fire on the biggest threat so joining a fight with an NPC Conda/Krait/Python cop would be quite easy. Joining a fight with just a wing of Viper cops would be different.

Let's be honest here.. It takes a lot of hard work just to get a G5DD ship, before that, Frontier designers in their infinte wisdom, decided that putting un-engineered player against their randomly generated engineered ship was a good thing. And if they [the players] wanted to compete, they'd have to jump through some more random of an idea they call material gathering.

Sounds like this game isn't for you either because not everyone has that view. It's comments like this that makes many new players think the game is just a straight forward one-for-all type of game and it just isn't. You do what you enjoy. Mat farming isn't hard once you know where to look for stuff. With material trading you don't even need to 'look' for the right stuff. You could simply take an A-rated Sidey into a Nav Beacon of a highly populated high security system, help the cops beat the baddies and scoop up all the mats they drop.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There should have never been powercreep indiscriminately disseminated into the gameplay in the first place.

Too late for that.

 

[Vetinari]

PVE beginner combat link:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj7Tv6Hkzks&list=PLST2VzDxDCrwvkU6wYfo-z4UhGbObjl_M&index=6


He does another vid in an unshielded Vulture in a Haz Res site iirc but I cant find that one right now. Another one is Ground Assault on a Budget - all aimed at showing it is possible if you have enough skill...which I don't yet

I am nowhere near this good, nor is it for PVP, but it is skill based.

PVP is another game it seems and may need a separate environment allowing short cuts for Engineering but not allowed to bring those shortcut ships back into the main game proper as PVP is only part of the game and would kill the whole game.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Too late for that.

How about giving players a choice when to tackle the bulletsponges? Why would it be too late to change the spawning scripts?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

+Lots !!

Exactly. Knowing what the grind is and how long it's going to take, is then a decision for the player make based on the knowns.

However Frontier have made it so it's entirely random. So I might find my HGEs with included materials in one night, where-as you might require weeks of flying around like a wheelchair on slow-mo just to find one.

That is the frontier design philosophy. Frontier don't do MMOs and if they did, they mess that up too !

Sure, a more certain way to get a reward for your effort would be bad.

Example: Cheminal Manipulators. Kill big trade (or passenger ships). Easy... if RNGesus loves you. If RNGesus hates you though, it might take multiple kills to get one to spawn.

Datamined Wake Exceptions... i think we have all felt the pain of the randomness of those! Ok, i don't mind some randomness, but when you are out to get some, and it can take 30 minutes to even get 1 positive scan if the gods are against you, that is when it gets frustrating.

 

[Vetinari]

, but when you are out to get some, and it can take 30 minutes to even get 1 positive scan if the gods are against you, that is when it gets frustrating.

That's how you turn a game into a grind. That's like saying, 'I'm going to play Monopoly. I'm only going to buy Oxford Street et al and Mayfair & Park Lane, that's all I'm going to do'. 20 minutes later, 'This game is a grind, I keep getting Chance cards or sent to jail and not once has the RNG given me the roll I need to land on one of those!' This game is a grind!, It's stupid!' Could be, or could be that you are not playing the game as its designed to be played. The beauty of ED is you are allowed to play as you want, doesn't mean the RNG should land you on Mayfair the first role every time or even close.

 

[m0rl0ck]

That's how you turn a game into a grind. That's like saying, 'I'm going to play Monopoly. I'm only going to buy Oxford Street et al and Mayfair & Park Lane, that's all I'm going to do'. 20 minutes later, 'This game is a grind, I keep getting Chance cards or sent to jail and not once has the RNG given me the roll I need to land on one of those!' This game is a grind!, It's stupid!' Could be, or could be that you are not playing the game as its designed to be played. The beauty of ED is you are allowed to play as you want, doesn't mean the RNG should land you on Mayfair the first role every time or even close.

Whats wrong with that analogy is that in monopoly the random rolls are part of the game and built into it as part of its organic structure.
The engineers is a layer of RNG smeared on top of a otherwise good game and deadweight that game could lose to its improvement. Resenting the engineers is just natural if you have any aesthetic sense, imo, or care about having fun.

EDIT: Just on a note of personal integrity, i have not used the word poopoo in the above post, additionally "poopoo" when addressing anyone over 10 years old is not part of my vocabulary. The appearance of "poopoo" in the above post is entirely a reflection of this forums standards and intellectual maturity.

 

[House0fDerp]

Haha Weeks... Cutter, fully engineered, multi-billion bank balance, in under 20 hrs... And Elite Trader into the bargain. I did it my way

Must be nice. My way as a combat pilot left me thinking the cutter was effectively out of reach. As a combat pilot chasing CZs the gains were 1-2% of rank for every 50 to 90 kills. This was after wasting a great deal of time RES hunting before realizing rep for bounties gave no rank, but I guess that was my fault.

So I gave up and stacked data missions via mode switching on a 1 jump loop for 2 hours. Certainly wasn't "my way" but it was a way that took several months of combat and outdid them multiple times over in the course of hours.

 

[Garbarrage]

Mat farming isn't hard once you know where to look for stuff.

I haven't seen anyone complaining about mat gathering being "hard". There's plenty of people complaining about it being boring though. At least if it was hard, it might not be boring.

There's absolutely no need for repetitive cycles like the ones in this game. How many times do I really need to run around the same Guardian site? I would say once or twice at the most. Endlessly repetitive gameplay is just lazy development.

Sounds like this game isn't for you either because not everyone has that view

If it wasn't for this type of feedback, would we have material traders? Isn't that how forums work?

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

If material traders were not total robbers that'd be something else that'd take a lot of tedium out of material gathering.
I'm going for a restock of raw stuff now.
Not relishing the prospect.
If you look at what FDev think we should be doing with materials: synthesis for comabting Thargoids, PVP, PVE, Engineering. It's easy to spend the materials but not so enjoyable gathering them.

 

[Alone Wulff]

I haven't seen anyone complaining about mat gathering being "hard". There's plenty of people complaining about it being boring though. At least if it was hard, it might not be boring.

There's absolutely no need for repetitive cycles like the ones in this game. How many times do I really need to run around the same Guardian site? I would say once or twice at the most. Endlessly repetitive gameplay is just lazy development.

If it wasn't for this type of feedback, would we have material traders? Isn't that how forums work?

Well this doesn't come across as condescending, not in the slightest.

If this is how forums work then I can see why many people don't bother...

 

[FrogsFriend]

You could simply take an A-rated Sidey into a Nav Beacon of a highly populated high security system, help the cops beat the baddies and scoop up all the mats they drop.

I've done that in a stock Sidey in a High Res site, made a fortune in Bounties and Materials and I don't think a single wanted ship took a pop at me. Strafing along Anacondas with the twin pulse lasers has a real 'Battle of Britain' feel to it

 

[Darty]

Well this doesn't come across as condescending, not in the slightest.

If this is how forums work then I can see why many people don't bother...

Litterally nothing that he said was the least bit condescending. Condescending is assuming someone's feedback is irrelevant because they aren't playing the "right" way and telling them to play another game.

 

[Alone Wulff]

Litterally nothing that he said was the least bit condescending. Condescending is assuming someone's feedback is irrelevant because they aren't playing the "right" way and telling them to play another game.

You're right that nothing he 'said' was condescending. It was the 'way' he said it. Look up the definition!

I haven't assumed anyone's 'feedback' is irrelevant. Quote what I said that's telling someone their opinion is irrelevant. Quote what I've said that is factually incorrect. I don't care if you don't agree with my opinions, that's the point of having opinions. But anyone tell me my opinion is wrong because theirs is the only right one and I have a problem.

Neither you nor the other guy have read my comments properly.

 

[Darty]

You're right that nothing he 'said' was condescending. It was the 'way' he said it. Look up the definition!

I haven't assumed anyone's 'feedback' is irrelevant. Quote what I said that's telling someone their opinion is irrelevant. Quote what I've said that is factually incorrect. I don't care if you don't agree with my opinions, that's the point of having opinions. But anyone tell me my opinion is wrong because theirs is the only right one and I have a problem.

Neither you nor the other guy have read my comments properly.

Telling someone the game isn't for them because they gave feedback is by definition assuming their feedback is irrelevant.

 

[Garbarrage]

Well this doesn't come across as condescending, not in the slightest.

If this is how forums work then I can see why many people don't bother...

Material traders came about as a direct result of players complaining on the forums/Reddit that mat gathering was too slow and boring. In response FDev added mat traders and increased (doubled iirc) the drop rates for all mats.

I haven't checked specifically, but I'd be very surprised if during the period leading up to this, there wasn't a small percentage of players telling the people doing the complaining that the game isn't for them back then too.

Quote what I said that's telling someone their opinion is irrelevant.

Sure. Here you go:

Sounds like this game isn't for you either because not everyone has that view.

There was a time before Engineers and mat gathering where maybe this game would have been more up his street. Sandro Sammarco seemed to rely heavily on time sinks and busy work to stretch out content. Maybe they'll get someone in with a bit more imagination and the game could be more appealing to a wider audience. Who knows?

<Ahem>

 

[Alone Wulff]

Telling someone the game isn't for them because they gave feedback is by definition assuming their feedback is irrelevant.

Well now we know what the problem is... you both misinterpreted my comments. I haven't 'told' anyone anything, I've only suggested. Read my comments properly.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Well now we know what the problem is... you both misinterpreted my comments. I haven't 'told' anyone anything, I've only suggested. Read my comments properly.

Same thing.