Karma v C&P: What player activities belong to which mechanism?

[Powderpanic]

If only there was more than one game mode with no population limit - we can dream, I guess....

Oh wait.. Solo. No Pop limit there.

Fixed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Oh wait.. Solo. No Pop limit there.

Fixed.

Solo has no possibility of meeting another player. That is, by definition, a population limited game mode.

Similarly, Private Groups are limited to 20,000 on PC and 1,000 on XB1 (not sure about PS4).

Open is the only game mode that can accommodate an unlimited number of players.

 

[sovapid]

If unmoderated, forced PvP and blatant poo-flinging chimpery from the likes of SDC et al

While I do disagree with the substance, I love this sentence.

 

[Chesso]

lol well that's me in trouble I tend to play till the pc locks up at which point I go play something less crashy Ok so very rare to crash in combat as I spend more time doing other things ( trying for explorer elite ) the only comfort is at least it isn't a human if it happens as I rarely go into open

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i agree here and in other thread it has possibilities beyond its intial intent - i mad e apost in the other thread about canned piracy chat and audio and setable functions to enable everyone to log if something was really piracy and add some immersion to pvp piracy.

i do want to caution people though. i think since its looking at trends, there will not be an immediate flag on gankers if even they intend it to be visible. as gandalf said to frodo even sauron was not evil in the beginning. we all know how well that worked out, and gankers dont create their commanders when they first start to play with a big red im-a-ganker warning colour. they earn it. and i think even known gankers will only get the visible thing whatever it is, red hollow thing or whatever, after the karma system can see the trend. and that means the smart ones will find the frequency they can gank without getting the marker. most of them wont care, and will assume clearing the save will clear karma. whether or not it does so is up to FD.

just dont make the mistake of thinking - hes green hes clean right from the off. the guy might be the worst ganker in elite but the karma system has only just started looking at the trends and wont flag him until hes done a few players consistently with time.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Spot on. Behavioral analysis could really make for some interesting tailored content.

On the subject of karma and people complaining about FDev being on the side of those that want to "sing kumbaya around the campfire", it's in Frontiers commercial interest to be that way.

The PvP crowd represent a small subset of the playerbase and the rest don't view being prey as a fun experience. If unmoderated, forced PvP and blatant poo-flinging chimpery from the likes of SDC et al, will drive that majoriy playerbase away. Not good for the health of the game, not good for the health of the company.

rep for the sentence poo-flinging chimpery. and virtual rep +10 because its an epic description.

i would add also most of the poo-flinging chimps dont find being the victim fun - although their fellow chimps who DONT die from misadventure find it hilarious when one of their own comes a cropper. remarkable how much hypocrisy they have.

 

[xRebel-Scumx]

Sandro here are my thoughts

Hello Commanders!

Hopefully, we can get some more detailed discussions going on this, but for now:

The initial use of a karma system, which tracks and analyses player activities, will be to provide additional in-game consequences for the following actions:

• Combat logging, where players exit the game ungracefully
• Murder crimes where there is a massive disparity between player stats/skill/ship power

The consequences would scale over time (as a karma system tracks trends over time rather than spot instances).

[/LIST]with regards to combat logging maybe a 2 mins timer preventing a logger's ship from despawning if they log within a time period of being under attack

• I do believe that a karma system would prevent some "griefing" but there are some cmdrs who seem to enjoy actively harassing other players and do so with impunity and even stream it so I doubt a karma system will impact them much at all perhaps a more robust enforcement of the ToS is also needed
  • I think its worth mentioning that it is impossible to please everyone all of the time and would be futile to try.Its your game you are the lead designer do what you think is best,if you do well more will play in open

 

[Deadspin]

• with regards to combat logging maybe a 2 mins timer preventing a logger's ship from despawning if they log within a time period of being under attack
  • I do believe that a karma system would prevent some "griefing" but there are some cmdrs who seem to enjoy actively harassing other players and do so with impunity and even stream it so I doubt a karma system will impact them much at all perhaps a more robust enforcement of the ToS is also needed
    • I think its worth mentioning that it is impossible to please everyone all of the time and would be futile to try.Its your game you are the lead designer do what you think is best,if you do well more will play in open

• • 
    
    Killing a random player one time before moving on to kill another random player is not actually harassment and does not violate the TOS.
    
    Targeted harassment, like the invasion of Mobius for the sole goal of harassing players who are playing in a private group to avoid unwanted pvp, is more in line with a TOS violation.
    
    However, Frontier has spoken on the matter numerous times, lets stop getting ahead of ourselves here.

 

[Stigbob]

Killing a random player one time before moving on to kill another random player is not actually harassment and does not violate the TOS.

Targeted harassment, like the invasion of Mobius for the sole goal of harassing players who are playing in a private group to avoid unwanted pvp, is more in line with a TOS violation.

However, Frontier has spoken on the matter numerous times, lets stop getting ahead of ourselves here.

Repeated random killing would net you bad karma under the proposed fix though, so although not harassment (of course) it is something FDEV would like to reduce.

 

[Deadspin]

Repeated random killing would net you bad karma under the proposed fix though, so although not harassment (of course) it is something FDEV would like to reduce.

Of course and I am in line with that idea 100%. I was more or less commenting on Rebel's mention of the TOS enforcement and his thought, however invalid, that it's not being enforced.

 

[xRebel-Scumx]

just to clarify repeatedly killing another player may be harassment to some but its not what I was talking about at all I mean being repeatedly disruptive,abusive and getting some kind of dopemine hit from making it impossible for others to play the game in open

 

[Requiem Mortis]

Everything. It seems like people still don't understand what the Karma system really is. It is a mechanic that tracks and remembers your actions. This can be used for everything: Crime & Punishment, Cheating, Exploiting, Ganking or even rewarding you for being a jolly good fellow. It could also be used in way that the game can recognise your favourite activities and stuff like being a succesful bounty hunter and give you special missions. Or finally recognise that you are Imperial scum. The Karma system doesn't have it's name because it encourages you to be a good person, but because it remembers your actions post rebuy screen.

It looks like the first iteration will be focused on punishing certain behaviour like station ramming while also giving consequences to criminal activities like random killing. The system can be used to shadow ban combat loggers and revoke docking rights for notorious criminals in high security systems at the same time. It doesn't need to be specialised so it can only handle one specific action. Asking if a certain behaviour belongs to Karma or C&P doesn't make any sense, since the Karma system can be used for C&P. That's like asking if you should use your computer to send emails or gaming, it can do both if it's powerful enough.

An excellent observation CMDR, (rep given) I would love to see the Karma system used to enhance and reward 'positive' game play.

I have not yet attempted piracy, but have been on the receiving end of well played piracy and enjoyed the experience. I would suggest successful piracy where the Pirate exits the encounter with Cargo leaving the victim able to continue would actually gain positive Karma and maybe even a 'True Pirate Reputation' if that reputation were visible it might encourage players to be more amenable to 'Piracy Role Play'. It would certainly peak my interest and inform my decision to stick around or attempt to run, but this may require the option for them to display their Karma to be optional in order to maintain the element of surprise, or perhaps to be revealed on being scanned by their intended target....

 

[CMDR_Elver]

just to clarify repeatedly killing another player may be harassment to some but its not what I was talking about at all I mean being repeatedly disruptive,abusive and getting some kind of dopemine hit from making it impossible for others to play the game in open

Repeated harassment of another player is obviously a form of trolling and the is a block mechanism to deal with that sort of thing. If statistical analysis was brought in to look at trends over time to monitor things like cmdrs targeting a particular player for instance. Would that not hight light players that may be duelling regularly or could be part of a consensual tussle between players? Statistics can only tell you so much at the end of the day. Alot more can be done regarding C&P before bringing a "Karma" (i.e. long term stats) for combat scenarios, e.g. a duelling mechanism, PvP bounty hunting. PF reputation could be based on PvP combat only, this might even make a game of it, channelling cmdrs to the style of play they want in open. Maybe even make a game out it! Karma has a place definitely but I would tread a little carefully around combat.