In nutshell Open vs. Solo discussion is pointless, because game is designed to be played mostly in PvE way. Other players are part of environment, you can avoid them as you can avoid visiting certain stations, planets, systems. You might not like ED is not pure PvP but that's how it was designed and wishing that it would be different and something else is vain exercise.
Karma vs PvP Piracy
- Thread starter Riverside
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I shall consider myself suitably scolded and refrain from continuing that tangential topic in this thread.
I am, of course, available here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...en-v-Solo-v-Groups-thread-IV-Hotel-California should anyone wish to continue....
Nothing to do with obsession for money, just a distaste for exploits and a disdain for the lack of understanding that equity is not the same as equal. I think the game is great and that we are headed in a direction that can make it even better, but some issues (that are relevant to this topic) will persist because of how modes are currently handled. Also, as Maynard pointed out, it's not so simple as some players have horizons access and others do not, which brings about the topic of engineers.
In the end, I think I've pushed things somewhat off topic, so I'm sorry about that.
I'll try and stay on task with the thread.
I shall consider myself suitably scolded and refrain from continuing that tangential topic in this thread.
I am, of course, available here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...en-v-Solo-v-Groups-thread-IV-Hotel-California should anyone wish to continue....
Cheers and sorry for straying from the topic. If anything I'll visit there.
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Hello Commander Ozram!
I think you are perhaps conflating two separate issues: the amount of challenge present in each game mode, and player versus player interactions. I think these are so fundamentally different that comparisons might not be particularly useful.
The challenge of playing in solo being too low (without taking sides) is a valid argument to make, although it might better be phrased as "the opportunities for challenge are too low in Elite Dangerous". It's actually something we are interested in looking at.
However, cranking up difficulty will not make Open more enticing. Conflict between actual people, even within a game, is a very different matter to taking on NPC ships. It has many psychological and social elements that would otherwise not be present. Incidentally, increasing the difficulty of NPC engagements would also make Open harder rather than fairer, so there's also that.
Perhaps the bottom line is the different modes are there to enable Commanders to play how they want to. We don't want everyone to play in Open because we want some sort of Armageddon PvP scenario. We just think that playing with other people, both cooperatively *and* adversarial, can be more fun, which is why we advocate Open play.
So in the context of a karma system, people playing in Private Group or Solo mode are not relevant. Why should folk in Open be interested in what goes on there? This is about making player versus player interactions more equitable *in Open*, getting more folk in there, surely?
I think you are perhaps conflating two separate issues: the amount of challenge present in each game mode, and player versus player interactions. I think these are so fundamentally different that comparisons might not be particularly useful.
The challenge of playing in solo being too low (without taking sides) is a valid argument to make, although it might better be phrased as "the opportunities for challenge are too low in Elite Dangerous". It's actually something we are interested in looking at.
However, cranking up difficulty will not make Open more enticing. Conflict between actual people, even within a game, is a very different matter to taking on NPC ships. It has many psychological and social elements that would otherwise not be present. Incidentally, increasing the difficulty of NPC engagements would also make Open harder rather than fairer, so there's also that.
Perhaps the bottom line is the different modes are there to enable Commanders to play how they want to. We don't want everyone to play in Open because we want some sort of Armageddon PvP scenario. We just think that playing with other people, both cooperatively *and* adversarial, can be more fun, which is why we advocate Open play.
So in the context of a karma system, people playing in Private Group or Solo mode are not relevant. Why should folk in Open be interested in what goes on there? This is about making player versus player interactions more equitable *in Open*, getting more folk in there, surely?
Fair points. Cheers for the reply.
Sandro, legit question though - do you plan to do some passes at NPC difficulty curves for 2.4 considering Engineers have muted their performance vs. some players? Or do you think they are better left alone for now?
Thanks.
edit: also I remember making NPC tactics more varied and interesting would make them not exactly more harder, but more unpredictable and might improve engagements and challenges in both Open and Solo?
Thanks.
edit: also I remember making NPC tactics more varied and interesting would make them not exactly more harder, but more unpredictable and might improve engagements and challenges in both Open and Solo?
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Good to hear.
It strikes me that Frontier want players to want to play in Open - which would mean that Open could be the go-to mode for more players - and it seems to me that a karma system is but one piece of the jigsaw.
Can I just say that I really appreciate that you're engaging with us here, Sandro.
Karma+++
Karma+++
Can I just say that I really appreciate that you're engaging with us here, Sandro.
Karma+++
That goes for me as well.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Sadly can't rep at the moment as I've recently repped Sandro's post in the Reverberating Cascade Mines in Stations thread.
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This not true and it is perfectly logic to be prepared to deal with PvP interaction in Open/PG because PvP is a multiplayer game core design. And being in a PvP capable ship does not mean being able to fight back but being able to survive which is 100% possible and available to everyone (you don't even need RNGneered ship).
If you ignore it then yes, you will meet the rebuy screen but it is your fault.
edit : about the karma system, i hope CMDRs running shieldless trading loadout will be negatively impacted by the karma system or at least don't impact attacker karma because it is mostly their fault if they get destroyed.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The rep button appears to be broken again....
You didn't understand anything I said.
Can I just say that I really appreciate that you're engaging with us here, Sandro.
Karma+++
Got to throw my support in for this as well.
Forum won't let me rep almost anybody who has posted in the last few pages of this thread.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Can I just say that I really appreciate that you're engaging with us here, Sandro.
Karma+++
This - very much so.
Indeed - there seems to be an intermittent failure.....
It's probably TJ's fault.