Killed FOR NO REASON in Diso!

[Blaeringr]

Not all of them. There are a few vinegar/water types in that group that live only to make things go boom.

Most of them are pretty cool, but every barrel has a few bad apples.

We'd like to think all CODE members follow the rules. But that's why we have a complaints section: http://thecodeelitedangerous.enjin.com/forum/m/27784528/viewforum/5172398

If you have an experience where someone from the CODE, or who you think might be with the CODE, is killing without any communication, please take a screenshot and post in our complaints section.

While every barrel has a few bad apples, the CODE takes pride in cleaning its barrel out. Our rep isn't helped by the fact there are a few out there not in the CODE but who claim to be, or by angry posters who assume some griefer they met must be with the CODE simply because they haven't bothered to look up the names of other player organizations or to ask the CODE themselves if so and so is with them - dishonest players, quite simply.

 

[Blaeringr]

Doesn't seem like it was no reason to me. The assailant probably intended to prevent the CG from being completed.

There are good ways to go about this, and poor ways. Scanning their cargo hold, identifying CG cargo and giving the pilot a chance to drop it is a good way to prevent the CG. Blowing them up without knowing whether they were helping the goal or not is not so smart: what if the ship was running missions for a party other than the Green Party? Blowing them up helps the goal (which is ultimately about increasing Green Party influence).

"Reason" is not synonymous with "mindlessness", which is what the interdiction and assault in question were all about.

 

[Distance]

I find it curious that FD didn't develop some of the traders to be more resilient. It's not like their armament could be used to turn them into tank ships if they were given more armor or shields. Even a T9 pales in comparison to the defensive capabilities of ships that cost less and are armed more.

They can be more resilient unfortunately that means sacrificing jump range. TBH the jump ranges of the trading ships should be upped so traders can fit more armaments, shield boosters and cells and then it would be easier for traders to have a chance at escape. As both a trader and then a pirate I can see the problem with having to run a D grade ship in a T9 because if you did kit it out so you could survive a pirate long enough to escape you'd have a jump range of about 7lyrs over the pitiful current max of 13lyrs.

 

[Mercury Shift]

FD made traders more resilient by adding wings and escorts. 3 T6s with turrets and a Sidey would make me reconsider my attack run.

FD made 2 fast transports:
The Imperial clipper, that can carry 248 tons and boost up to 418.
The Cobra, that can carry 60 tons and boost up to 442.
Good luck catching up to them in a Python, Vulture or Viper. The Cobra is practically invulnerable as a transport. The Clipper can be suspectible to a group of Cobras.


I do agree that the trade ships are useless flying death traps. One ended up in front of me after the interdiction. I pressed the fire button and he was dead in 2 secs (2 x 2 railgun hits). 2 freakin secs. He didn't even have time to press the boost button completely.

Wings go both ways. Even still, in your example of 3 T6s (and a Sidey? I thought you could only have a wing of 3? Even then, a Sidey?), 2SX3 turreted weapons would be enough to drive off a single Vulture? Let alone an FDL, Anaconda, or Python. Am I missing something here?

Also, a Viper can catch a Cobra. Nothing else, but a Viper can. A Cobra CAN out maneuver the Viper, especially at those speeds, but not out run one. Clippers I am not as familiar with.

My point is though that, what offsets the T6,7,&9's low defenses? A T9 with the largest internal set to a shield gen is barely in the same category as a Vulture for shield strength. I get that it has loads of large internals, but they do little good for survivability. Hull Reinforcement packages seem to cap out at size 5 and are pretty underwhelming. I guess I am just surprized that they are not better armored naturally. Or at least less vulnerable to sub-system damage or something.

I wouldn't mind seeing the traders get a boost to 'death-causing' damage resistance, while maybe keeping or even increasing vulnerability to modules like the cargo hatch, thrusters, and FSD (if it didn't outright blow them up). That way, pirating could force the drop and/or stop them if they run, but make them a bit less 'cardboard boxy' to destruction. Could entice traders to use AFMU's to be able to survive the thruster damage death. Would this stop the folks from popping traders just for the lulz? No, but making take longer is OK by me.

 

[Grumpy181155]

Righto the next rock that takes me out is really going to cop it.(after I've copped it that is)

I can give the address of a good one. He took me out with just one hit and I never even saw it coming until the last second

 

[Blaeringr]

Wings go both ways. Even still, in your example of 3 T6s (and a Sidey? I thought you could only have a wing of 3? Even then, a Sidey?), 2SX3 turreted weapons would be enough to drive off a single Vulture? Let alone an FDL, Anaconda, or Python. Am I missing something here?

Also, a Viper can catch a Cobra. Nothing else, but a Viper can. A Cobra CAN out maneuver the Viper, especially at those speeds, but not out run one. Clippers I am not as familiar with.

My point is though that, what offsets the T6,7,&9's low defenses? A T9 with the largest internal set to a shield gen is barely in the same category as a Vulture for shield strength. I get that it has loads of large internals, but they do little good for survivability. Hull Reinforcement packages seem to cap out at size 5 and are pretty underwhelming. I guess I am just surprized that they are not better armored naturally. Or at least less vulnerable to sub-system damage or something.

I wouldn't mind seeing the traders get a boost to 'death-causing' damage resistance, while maybe keeping or even increasing vulnerability to modules like the cargo hatch, thrusters, and FSD (if it didn't outright blow them up). That way, pirating could force the drop and/or stop them if they run, but make them a bit less 'cardboard boxy' to destruction. Could entice traders to use AFMU's to be able to survive the thruster damage death. Would this stop the folks from popping traders just for the lulz? No, but making take longer is OK by me.

Some questionable comments here.

Max wing size: 4
Vipers generally can't outrun cobras. It comes down to available power - because a cobra has more juice, it can boost more frequently, and thus will outrun a viper most of the time.
Clippers usually tend to outrun cobras, unless you gut the cobra and outfit it for nothing but pure speed.
Vipers can stop, accelerate/decelerate quicker than a cobra, and far quicker than a clipper. Don't under value how very important that is in close quarters maneuvering.

 

[Pendra]

Wings can have 4 ships.
If the attackers and the traders are numberically equal, then the traders are toast. But most pirates operate alone.
8 small guns can be pretty annoying even for a vulture. He concentrates fire on one. The attacked ship puts 4 pips to the shields to last longer. The vulture would need to put 4 pips to weaps thus, weaken the shields. The rest of the traders would open up with 6 small guns and all 4 pips to them. That would wear down the Vulture shields in less than 10 secs. The clipper would last about 5 secs. Especially if the traders start bump the attacker from left and right. T6s can outrun the Python and the Anaconda.

A kitted Cobra can outrun a kitted Viper. A Viper has a max boost speed ~400-410. My Cobra speeds at 440 full, 465 empty, this is a considerable difference.
Come to Diso with your fastest viper and I would gladly present this. If you beat me in speed, I drop 5 tons of Gold, if I beat you, you follow suit.

 

[Mercury Shift]

Some questionable comments here.

Max wing size: 4
Vipers generally can't outrun cobras. It comes down to available power - because a cobra has more juice, it can boost more frequently, and thus will outrun a viper most of the time.
Clippers usually tend to outrun cobras, unless you gut the cobra and outfit it for nothing but pure speed.
Vipers can stop, accelerate/decelerate quicker than a cobra, and far quicker than a clipper. Don't under value how very important that is in close quarters maneuvering.

Gotcha on the max wing size. I had seen a few NPC wings at 4, but never players and I have only ever been in a wing of 3 myself and there didn't seem to be much more room on the HUD for another wingman icon. I stand corrected here. But in his example the addition of the 1 Sidey would not change my opinion.

Isn't boosting dependent on the Distributor, not excess power? And the Viper and Cobra have the same boost speed and distributor size. I attribute the Viper as capable of catching a Cobra due to its 40 higher normal speed than the Cobra. If its not dependent on the distributor that's just plain stupid, and again I would stand corrected, but going by the game mechanics I see, the two ships should boost identically. Again, Clippers I am unfamiliar with.

Viper maneuverability is very low. They both state "6", but so does an Asp, and I am more maneuverable in my Asp than in my Viper. I totally agree on the acceleration/deceleration thing though, the Viper is bees knees there and the Asp scares me half to death sometimes with how slow it stops. Both good and bad though as the Asp's boost is over a muuuuuuch longer timeframe and takes way longer to get back down to standard speed, giving more distance per boost, just at a lower speed.

 

[Mercury Shift]

Wings can have 4 ships.
If the attackers and the traders are numberically equal, then the traders are toast. But most pirates operate alone.
8 small guns can be pretty annoying even for a vulture. He concentrates fire on one. The attacked ship puts 4 pips to the shields to last longer. The vulture would need to put 4 pips to weaps thus, weaken the shields. The rest of the traders would open up with 6 small guns and all 4 pips to them. That would wear down the Vulture shields in less than 10 secs. The clipper would last about 5 secs. Especially if the traders start bump the attacker from left and right. T6s can outrun the Python and the Anaconda.

A kitted Cobra can outrun a kitted Viper. A Viper has a max boost speed ~400-410. My Cobra speeds at 440 full, 465 empty, this is a considerable difference.
Come to Diso with your fastest viper and I would gladly present this. If you beat me in speed, I drop 5 tons of Gold, if I beat you, you follow suit.

I'd be up for a race, and not just in the 'settling a disagreement' sort of way, but sadly I just started an exploration tour in my Asp, so I am very far from Diso. If your numbers are true though I can say that you would win, I think my Viper was boosting at 415 last I flew it. Not really sure how you are loading the boost so high, I know going over the optimal thrust gives more than the ship specs, but you are 50-60 over, THAT is considerable. Do you also see that much improvement in maneuverability too?

On the topic, I still don't see the payoff for the trader ships. I tested out a build of a T9 in the builder to try and maximize defenses and still only ended up with maybe 500 shields and 300 armor, but it only left about 380ish cargo. All at the affordable price of 130M.

Edit: By the way your 'gentleman's challenge' was more like a kick in the teeth 'cause you probably know damn well that my Viper wouldn't have room for the damn gold regardless of who won! lol

 

[GluttonyFang]

So I was flying into Diso for one last delivery of agricultural equipment before heading off to work, hoping to cross the threshold from 70% to 40% in the top contributor standings for the "Cultivating the Corn" CG there. I'd been trading in open and hadn't been harassed by Code or anyone else but, to be honest, haven't had a lot of time this last week to really contribute much to the goal.
On my way to Shifnalport upon dropping into the system... I get interdicted! By another player!
I know, I know: "Drop throttle and boost away." I didn't.
I fought the interdiction and thought I was going to escape for a while. He kept at me for a good minute or two before finally winning the "mini game" and dropping me out of supercruise.
I pulled to a halt fully ready for the "drop your cargo" line while I put four pips behind my shields.
Meanwhile the other player lines up his Cobra directly in front of my Type 7. No words. No warning. He opens fire. I boost, hit flight assist off and activate my turretted beam lasers.
By the time my lasers are bouncing off his shields my own shields are gone and my hull is at 83%. Still waiting for my my FSD cooldown so I can make my escape. I'm doomed.
The Cobra pops my powerplant and I'm left with a view of the debris that used to be my precious trade ship, the "Molly Malone" spinning in a cloud of smoke. A second later I'm greeted by the message "Your ship has been destroyed by CMDR ######."
I smile and pay my 900k credits insurance bill.
I could have played this out in Solo and been virtually guaranteed that my trade run would have ended in success. I think this was actually more fun. I'll stick to Open.

If the Cobra didn't say anything to you/ give warning message, then it's likely not CODE. If you want, PM me the Cmdr's name and I'll look it up for you.

 

[Pendra]

My Viper has 8 tons cargo space. You can, of course, claim the gold later, if you can't take it on spot.

 

[slightly.distant]

Opened thread thinking great another whiner....left thread pleasantly surprised.
Also with a touch of stupidity since it took me a few minutes to figure out how to give rep...but I did figure it out and you sir got some.

 

[Mercury Shift]

My Viper has 8 tons cargo space. You can, of course, claim the gold later, if you can't take it on spot.

I was kidding, think I have an empty slot I could throw a cargo spot on. But you didn't answer my question about how you are that far over the ship spec or if/how your maneuverability is affected?

 

[Lestat]

I have to give a thumbs up to the Op. But I have to give a thumbs down to the Cowardry Pirate who destroys or Take a few Cargo.

 

[CravenTHC]

I could have played this out in Solo and been virtually guaranteed that my trade run would have ended in success. I think this was actually more fun. I'll stick to Open.

Still waiting for the first "you should play in Mobius" comment. I don't understand why people take it so personally when another player shoots you down.

It's nice that you're taking this all in stride, but what I'm failing to grasp is why you would think that anybody would suggest that you play in private groups or solo. You expressly stated in the OP that you enjoy this aspect of the game. The suggestion that someone should play somewhere other than open play is probably being reserved for players that don't enjoy the more dangerous PvP aspects of the game.