Ships Laser Build for PVE (Again)

Kayvan

Kayvan
I know there are many threads about laser builds, but some of them contradict each other and I haven't been able to make out a real consensus. Or others simply aren't applicable to my situation / requirements. As you may guess, I'd like an ammo-independent build for HazRES pirate farming.

>>>>
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Background blurb: Experiences of a Nuub
Currently my preferred combat ships are a Chieftain and a Vulture.
The Chief has been equipped with Small gimballed burst lasers (long range) and a Med efficient beam. The idea behind the Long Range lasers was that they are basically the most effective mod at ranges >1600m. So I could technically fire at 2-6km distance and every hit counts fully.

For the Large HPs I've started out with gimballed MCs and then switched to G5 Focused Slug PAs. The MCs work well enough but I need fresh ammo pretty often. The PAs give much more endurance in that regard, my problem with them is that I'm not very good at hitting stuff with them. 😳

Then I thought I'd switch to Large G5 Focues Burst Lasers with Inertial Impact. The theory seems sound: high piercing (120) + damage bonus + 50% kinetic damage = profit. However I underestimated the jitter and also built them as gimballed, so a lot of those blasts go into nowhere. Basically I've taken to only use them at very close range (like <500m).
Also, I noticed that the long range mod doesn't seem to do much on gimballed mounts since the shots mostly miss at longer ranges.

A first test run with all-fixed, unengineered burst lasers hasn't been too bad. Hitting the enemies has worked better than I feared -- so far I've avoided fixed weps bc I don't consider myself skilled enough. A certain problem is the interval of the bursts -- it got a bit better with some practice, but sometimes the bursts just go off at the wrong moments.
The unmodded lasers worked well enough for stripping shields, but killing the hull turned out to be just tedious.
<<<<<

So from these experiences, I'm trying to draw some conclusions for the next iteration:
I'm no longer as scared of fixed lasers as I used to be, and wouldn't mind trying out an all-fixed build.

To shred hulls, I'm thinking a set of 2 Large Fixed G5 Focused Burst Lasers with Inertial Impact.

I'd dedicate the Small HPs to stripping shields. However, which is the most efficient and effective? Pulse, Beam or Burst? Energy constraints are a thing of course.
Is it even worth modding them for long range, when the Large ones will have to be used at <1km anyway?

I might keep one Beam anyway to help "walk" my shots onto the target. Guess that should be an Efficient one at any rate.

In the long run ofc I might get me Cyto-Scramblers -- but that's at least 2 months down the road since I think I want to unlock Pacifiers first. (Need to decide until wednesday)

So, sorry for the wall of text -- I hope it hasn't been too incoherent. What are your thoughts and experiences? Please share your wisdom with me. :)
 

Hoshizoku

Hoshizoku
I think you already have a good overview. Weapons are pretty personal and each CMDR has a different style, taste and skill.
My advice is just keep trying stuff out till you find your sweetspot. Cyto Scramblers on the chief are nice for PvE, shreds shields of even CZ Enemy Captain Cutters/Vettes.
For hull id still go Kinetic over the long run, I hate synth and the coming RAW farm with that but its okay once ure filled up. So the Pacifiers wld make a great combo to the Cytos. But that is me. Till you have Pacifiers you can go with Frags without that much drawback, aside the spray (can make up with gimballed for better aiming) as for cytos you cld try fixed short range initial impact bursts, they act like laser shotguns. the chief can stay close enough to NPCs to make this work!
In PvE alot is valid so enjoy trying out all the different combos :D
 

Kayvan

Kayvan
Yeah, the Pacs are mostly intended for CZ and other missions that don't require killing dozens of enemies. The ammo-less build is mostly intended for massacre missions which I like to do in HazRes as the Wing ones are usually something like 40, 60 or 80 kills required.

Tried regular Frags once and failed totally. xD But mb I'm better now.
 

Hoshizoku

Hoshizoku
For brainless farming i love the Vulture with 2 efficient vent beams. Its enough dmg to kill everything but still keeps you on your toe, sniping PPs while orbiting. very forgiving ship as well with the speed but needs alot engineering.
Frags need some getting used too, you need to be very close and try to get your ship in such a angle you spray over the top or belly.. or w/e the biggest area
 

Oytis57

Oytis57
Do as you please,as always but...if you think you can shred hulls easily with only Lasers,good luck! Vulture:two PAs or two frags,Chief same two Pas or Frags in the Large HPs,whatever you like in the two Mediums and Cytos for shields in the Smalls (or Enforcers) that's my recipe.
 

Vedmo

Vedmo
With the Chieftan your 2 large and 3 smalls converge so well they are pretty much begging for fixed. Put a beam in one small like you were thinking to help stay on target if that helps you, then it really comes down to your normal engagement ranges. For me, a Chieftain can pretty much stay glued onto anything in pve at close range, so I wouldn't personally go long range with lasers on one, which would leave the decision to distributor capabilities. It can handle 2L + 3S rapid fire pulses no problem (I have one built that way), and I'm sure swapping a small or two from pulse to beam would work fine as well.

Cytos in those smalls make it insanely powerful, and SRB rails can really punish too if you are staying close. I would still throw an MC with corrosive on the medium in the bottom to help with hulls. One synth for an MC really isn't a big deal.
 

Kayvan

Kayvan
Yeah I may have to get used to synthing indeed...
I made some weapons for testing and as Oytis57 warned, there couldn't really be any talk of "shredding" hulls. I managed, but it took way longer than I would prefer. The 3° jitter on Inertial Impact is still insane; switching from gimballed to fixed didn't help half as much as I hoped. I guess I would have been quicker even with PAs.
On the plus side, the Efficient Beams are pretty satisfying. I can't quite say which is actually quicker for me below the line -- fixed or gimballed -- since the NPCs spam so much chaff which throws off the gimballed ones. (I know about the trick of releasing target lock to make them "fixed" but I tend to lose track of the target without those red markers)

On another note, earlier that evening I played some CZs with two buddies in Wing; I brought my PAs (along gimballed lasers) and that worked pretty well -- especially against the bigger ships ofc. Better than in RES I would say. ^^

All in all, stripping the enemies of their shields generally hasn't been much of a problem with most ships tonight regardless of setup (the SCB ones being the biggest PITAs), so I guess Cytos are more or less nice-to-have, and I should go for the Pacs first.

Also, I guess bringing a Corrosive MC is a pretty good idea. ^^ Will probably make that one High-Cap since the damage comes from other sources.
 

GloatingSwine

GloatingSwine
Kayvan said:
On another note, earlier that evening I played some CZs with two buddies in Wing; I brought my PAs (along gimballed lasers) and that worked pretty well -- especially against the bigger ships ofc. Better than in RES I would say. ^^
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You'll feel the benefit more in a CZ.

The on-paper DPS of a ship doesn't tell the whole story. You have to consider how long you can sustain the DPS and how often you get the chance to sustain your full DPS to the end of your distributor. CZs because the enemies are all tougher and there's a reliable source of beefy but easy to shoot targets mean that sustain DPS is a little more valuable.

Having weapons that deal big but intermittent alpha slaps like PAs mean that you are more likely to be able to fully sustain the rest of your DPS and still always have energy in your capacitor when it's ready to fire the plasmas.

A Chieftain layout like this can fire all the weapons except the plasma and still be charging its distributor with even half a pip extra in weapons. which means that when it's time for big slaps it has those ready to go. And whilst it would drain the capacitor quickly if you just held down the trigger on the plasmas it's rare that you're going to do that and hit every shot (basically only on large targets). (It would still get more charge between plasmas with 3S bursts though and that is likely to lead to lower TTKs just by being able to sustain higher DPS)
 

Northpin

Northpin
Here you GO - it works nicely in a CZ assuming you have access to engineering and you make a habit to go for powerplants and from very close range (under 500m, preferably about 200-300). At longer range the wobble gets atrocious
 

Northpin

Northpin
Kayvan said:
The Chief has been equipped with Small gimballed burst lasers (long range) and a Med efficient beam. The idea behind the Long Range lasers was that they are basically the most effective mod at ranges >1600m. So I could technically fire at 2-6km distance and every hit counts fully.
Click to expand...

Long range and gimbaled weapons dont mix well.
The gimbals have an atrocious wobble that makes them rather pointless unless you are shooting a T10... from the top view.
If you want long range then you are really limited to only 2 options: fixed and turrets. With the mention that turrets will be ok-ish up to 5km... and they will not be as good as fixed for module sniping
 

Kayvan

Kayvan
Long range and gimbaled weapons dont mix well.
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Yeah I noticed that, too.^^
Also, I noticed that the long range mod doesn't seem to do much on gimballed mounts since the shots mostly miss at longer ranges.
Click to expand...
xD

Ofc long range (fixed) opens up the cheesy but effective tactics of reversing and slowly wearing down the enemy at a range where he can't really hurt you anymore, and simultaneously preventing the same tactics to be used against you.

Also, I have to admit I have yet to practice proper FAOFF fighting. I've done it in other games and enjoyed it, so I hope I'll also get the hang of it in ED. I play with keyboard and flightstick, however -- for me the investment in a throttle isn't really justifiable for a single game.

As for module sniping, I'm probably just too clumsy for that. I find it incredibly cumbersome to select a module (read: PP) in the middle of a fight, and then even when I try to hit the reticle it's still mostly random, and in the end most enemies are at 0% hull long before they are <25% PP.
 

GloatingSwine

GloatingSwine
Kayvan said:
As for module sniping, I'm probably just too clumsy for that. I find it incredibly cumbersome to select a module (read: PP) in the middle of a fight, and then even when I try to hit the reticle it's still mostly random, and in the end most enemies are at 0% hull long before they are <25% PP.
Click to expand...

Lakon ships have ludicrously vulnerable power plants. If you attack from above or below you can get a type 10 to explode at about 40% hull or so.

Gimbals will lock on to module targets.
 

WeComeInPeace

WeComeInPeace
Kayvan said:
I know there are many threads about laser builds, but some of them contradict each other and I haven't been able to make out a real consensus. Or others simply aren't applicable to my situation / requirements. As you may guess, I'd like an ammo-independent build for HazRES pirate farming.


Background blurb: Experiences of a Nuub
Currently my preferred combat ships are a Chieftain and a Vulture.
The Chief has been equipped with Small gimballed burst lasers (long range) and a Med efficient beam. The idea behind the Long Range lasers was that they are basically the most effective mod at ranges >1600m. So I could technically fire at 2-6km distance and every hit counts fully.

For the Large HPs I've started out with gimballed MCs and then switched to G5 Focused Slug PAs. The MCs work well enough but I need fresh ammo pretty often. The PAs give much more endurance in that regard, my problem with them is that I'm not very good at hitting stuff with them. 😳

Then I thought I'd switch to Large G5 Focues Burst Lasers with Inertial Impact. The theory seems sound: high piercing (120) + damage bonus + 50% kinetic damage = profit. However I underestimated the jitter and also built them as gimballed, so a lot of those blasts go into nowhere. Basically I've taken to only use them at very close range (like <500m).
Also, I noticed that the long range mod doesn't seem to do much on gimballed mounts since the shots mostly miss at longer ranges.

A first test run with all-fixed, unengineered burst lasers hasn't been too bad. Hitting the enemies has worked better than I feared -- so far I've avoided fixed weps bc I don't consider myself skilled enough. A certain problem is the interval of the bursts -- it got a bit better with some practice, but sometimes the bursts just go off at the wrong moments.
The unmodded lasers worked well enough for stripping shields, but killing the hull turned out to be just tedious.
<<<<<

So from these experiences, I'm trying to draw some conclusions for the next iteration:
I'm no longer as scared of fixed lasers as I used to be, and wouldn't mind trying out an all-fixed build.

To shred hulls, I'm thinking a set of 2 Large Fixed G5 Focused Burst Lasers with Inertial Impact.

I'd dedicate the Small HPs to stripping shields. However, which is the most efficient and effective? Pulse, Beam or Burst? Energy constraints are a thing of course.
Is it even worth modding them for long range, when the Large ones will have to be used at <1km anyway?

I might keep one Beam anyway to help "walk" my shots onto the target. Guess that should be an Efficient one at any rate.

In the long run ofc I might get me Cyto-Scramblers -- but that's at least 2 months down the road since I think I want to unlock Pacifiers first. (Need to decide until wednesday)

So, sorry for the wall of text -- I hope it hasn't been too incoherent. What are your thoughts and experiences? Please share your wisdom with me. :)
Click to expand...
:) Personally I had the "excellent" idea of fitting a MkII with burst lasers and then I went and had G5 long range and inertial impact on all five of them. BAD combo!!! I hadn't noticed the 3 deg jitter. Double-plus-DOH! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️

My Vulture has frags (because wow!), but for scavening PvEs at a CNB or Haz I use a Corvette with all beams, efficient and flow control. My PP is running very cold, low emission and thermal spread, my PD is charge enhanced with super conduits, and I use four PIPs to weapons most of the time (everything G5 and A-class). In most many cases I can squeeze the trigger once and have the target explode before the PD runs dry.
 
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Kayvan

Kayvan
Yeah, Vettes will do that. 😆 However, I cba to rank grind. Also, a buddy of mine has a fully kitted out Corvette and is about as effective as you say -- and has lost interest in the ship for exactly that reason (and the inability to dock at outposts) and has switched to a Krait Mk.II as primary combat ship.
(Personally I find the MkII way too sluggish to enjoy.)
 

WeComeInPeace

WeComeInPeace
The thing about lasers is that they use a lot of power no matter what. Therefore they don't leave much juice for the engines. I'm currently working an a beam Mamba, but I end up brawling like in the Vulture, and then the Vulture is more fun, even though the Mamba is a smooth ride with a mighty punch. :)
 

Kayvan

Kayvan
Honest question: how do you fight in a Mamba?
I really want to like that ship, it 's fast and looks sleek and would be a nice alternative to a Ferdie, but it just turns like an iceberg and I can't fight like that.
 
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